Pole Barn VS Red Steel building - Need some more advice

[quicksandfarmer]

So am I an idiot? (Don’t ask my wife that question). Why aren’t we/they just drilling out for Sono tubes then attaching the wood to that concrete? I like the Morton idea but not sure it is the most cost effective method

The building has to have lateral strength so it isn't blown over by the wind. In a traditional pole barn the poles are buried and provide that strength, the rest of the sides of the building is pretty flimsy. It's hard to attach a pole to a concrete footing at ground level with that kind of strength. You have to build the walls stouter so that the bracing is provided by the walls themselves.

 

[747driver]

Morton Buildings Foundation System - YouTube
Video for morton perma column▶ 1:02
Morton Buildings Foundation System - YouTube

Morton has now gotten the production cost down where it isn't much more than just sinking a treated post in the ground. Look at how the post attaches to the column and how the the steel flange is attached to the column. Its engineered to not have a weak point. The only thing they do extra is install steel strapping X bracing in the corner walls. They have a 50 year warranty !!

 

[ultrarunner]

Just for kicks I did the dealer finder and no Morton on the West Coast...

Looks like California, Oregon, Washington and Nevada don't have Morton.

 

[EddieWalker]

So am I an idiot? (Don’t ask my wife that question). Why aren’t we/they just drilling out for Sono tubes then attaching the wood to that concrete? I like the Morton idea but not sure it is the most cost effective method

This works for porches, and I like doing something like this for my gazebo's. As mentioned, you lose all of your strength from the pole being in the ground. Imagine driving into a power pole 4 feet in the ground, and running into a porch post. One will kill you, the other might dent your bumper as it fails. The difference in strength is significant.

Morton and all of the other big name barn building companies are doing things based on making a profit, selling a product and protecting themselves against lawsuits. Just because it's how they do it, doesn't have anything to do with the most cost effective way to build a barn.

Wood posts in the ground are extremely strong. If you slope the water away from the building, those posts will easily last a hundred years. Lots of people on here are against wooden posts, but very few can point out where a post failed that had proper drainage on a building. Fence posts seem to be the most common failure, which has nothing to do with pole barns. The next biggest failure is a dirt floor pole barn that has livestock in it, that has worn away the dirt to create low areas near the posts, and a place for moisture to remain.

One of the biggest design challenges that I have is keeping it simple. I tend to start out over complicating it, then over time, slowly seeing things that I can change, or that I don't really need or want. Since you want a unique, different looking building, you might want to focus on how to dress up a box. Decide on your footprint, then how it will be used. One big door, two? or more? Plumbing? Work areas and storage areas. Once you have all the functioning aspects of it worked out, then figure out what can you do to make it look great.

I'm a fan of cupolas. There are all sorts of different types and shapes. Some buildings have several of them, with the center one being much larger then the others. That's a huge favorite of mine!!! I like my posts to be trees from my land. It's a huge process, very time consuming, but worth every minute once it's done.

 

[flingwing1969]

You guys are absolutely right, it is on me for not knowing true costs. What I was getting at, though, was that the price of a metal building appears to be very similar to the price of a pole barn. As noted, flexibility will be an issue, I was wondering about kitting out the interior, if it makes sense to go with wood framing (pole) as opposed to red framing.

Secondly, I am struggling with the notion of $25 a sq ft. I have asked for quotes for both a 2000 sqft building and a 3000 sq ft building and the difference was around $6 to 10 a sq ft not $25. It seems to me I should just find an extra 10K and build the 3000sq ft building and be done with it.

Also - go up with your building. With the added height (usually much cheaper than increasing square footage) you will be able to add a loft in the building later, when $$$ is available. Permitting here will allow a second floor that is 1/3 the square footage of the building. Plan it in when you pour and pour pier foundations when you dig/pour the floor and then you can come back and put in post anchors for the mezzanine when you build it - and use the perimeter posts for the rest of the supports. My same-size barn is 2' shorter than I would prefer for a 2nd floor (but it works) and I had to cut into the floor and dig/pour six new spots for the supporting posts for the mez.

 

[Stimw]

By Pre-casting the posts they can control the design, metal placement, cost and quality of final product.
With a sono tube in the field no real control.
Makes sense to me.

 

[flingwing1969]

So in your guys estimation, what is better, a metal building or a pole barn?

Also, I hear some people say build a pole barn because you can add windows and doors much easier. Is this true?

I like both but I have quite a bit of experience with metal on wood roofing/siding and that should be considered in the decision. Metal and wood really don't get along very well over time. They expand at different rates and this causes the screws to loosen a bit over time. I found more than 50 screws on the roof of my 36x48 barn had worked lose in about 15 years, enough to cause leaks. Metal on metal is a bit better - I have two of those, 20x24, and they seem to be less inclined to work lose.

I don't find adding doors or windows in a metal on metal building to be much of a problem, one can pretty much find "off-the-shelf" windows at the big box stores that are inexpensive and will fit the (usually odd sized) framing of the metal building without cutting anything and adding sills and headers really stiffens up the structure.

I added a man-door to one of my buildings without cutting anything, it is a 24" but heck, I didn't build it to move big stuff through, only to help me enter without having to fiddle with the 8' main door. Fit like a glove in the 27 1/2" stud bay.

 

[flingwing1969]

Morton Buildings Foundation System - YouTube
Video for morton perma column▶ 1:02
Morton Buildings Foundation System - YouTube

Morton has now gotten the production cost down where it isn't much more than just sinking a treated post in the ground. Look at how the post attaches to the column and how the the steel flange is attached to the column. Its engineered to not have a weak point. The only thing they do extra is install steel strapping X bracing in the corner walls. They have a 50 year warranty !!

If you go this route, you can also build the corners with shear walls and really gain some strength.

 

[flingwing1969]

Just for kicks I did the dealer finder and no Morton on the West Coast...

Looks like California, Oregon, Washington and Nevada don't have Morton.

There are others who build in a similar manner to Morton - just not their patented post system. We have one here in northern CA, not far from the OR line that built my building a couple of decades ago and is still in business.

 

[flingwing1969]

Do not forget to factor in the cost of insulating the ceiling. The original owner of my property/barn (we bought the property next door a few years ago) cut costs and did not insulate the ceiling of the unheated space and we have been paying the price ever since. What happens is, you get a differential in temp between the inside of the building and the metal roof and moisture in the air condenses on the underside of the roof, runs down the 5:12 pitch, hits wood and then drips. It isn't a lot of water, but just enough to make keeping tools in the place, or using it to store boxes of stuff, a challenge.

I've got a question in for other TBNers to answer about their experience with insulation retrofit but I can tell you it will be WAY more of a PITA and expense than if it had been done when the building was constructed.