PO'ed Veteran

[20 20]

The argument the customer can always go elsewhere is significantly countered by the fact non smoking employees cannot go elsewhere and their "rights" are protected by the ban.

So what's next someone that works in a mine will say we need to ban coal dust. Or someone that works at a lumber mill will say we need to ban saw dust. I'm listing those examples because I get sick of hearing about the poor employees not wanting to work in a bar because of smoke, thats kind of like saying I'd like to be a pilot but I don't want to go in the air. If someone doesn't like smoke then find another employer, of course up here it is to late.

In the last few days we have MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) advocating unrestricted random traffic stops with mandatory breathalizer tests on the spot. Not surprising, the Deputy Commissioner of Police thinks this would be a great idea.

It would appear George Orwell was right on with his book - just off by a few years.

This will work out, if there is way to make money or if it's re election time.

 

[sweettractors]

The More I think about it...........I may just go up in the attic and find my old Pipes..I used to enjoy smoking a pipe...maybe I will take that up agian and dare someone to try and stop me from smoking my pipe on my farm ....Yeah ...that's the ticket.

If you do that, Then I am going to start chewing tobacco again. Is it ok if I spit in the front yard these days or is there a reg against that? Ken Sweet

 

[20 20]

BBQs and fireplaces are already banned in many places for various reasons like fire codes, pollution caps, etc...

Up here last year they tried to ban camp fires, the ____ that started all the BS said that fires cause smoke, smoke falls to the ground and lands on the grass, cows eat the grass and that is what is causing all cancer. He also went after wood stoves etc... He did get some horse dung past but the rest is being held up for now.

And the rogue cop example is kind of ridiculous because that can happen in any scenario (if the glove don't fit, you must acquit is a good example). Remember, rogue cops are criminals, just as anyone else that breaks the law is a criminal.

So what do we do when it's the town, village, city, state, all the way up to the country. There are countless stories of politicains starting out with good intent, the problem happens after they fall into, "this is the way things are run", don't rock the boat so to speak. Is the cop being crooked when his boss says it's okay, is the cops boss being crooked when the mayor says it creates revenue and so on and so on? I quess some feel it's better to roll over and give up then try to make things right/better???????

I will have to agree with most of you that yes, some of our freedoms are getting squeezed, and I will have to disagree with some of you that think getting carded for age verification when purchasing controlled substances is an erosion of our personal freedoms.

Getting carded for beer is one thing, after all beer is speciffically made for consuming, whether it be drinking or cooking chicken on the grill. Glue is made speciffically for holding things together, if some moron sticks it up their nose why should that be my problem? I suppose if I'm walking on one of the many hiking trails up here I should be frisked, I'm in the woods so I must be hunting.
Sorry we disagree on this MossRoad I don't think our opinions are that far apart, like I said my rant about liquid nails may be somewhat petty, but that was not my whole point. My point is all the little BS adds up over time and sooner or later turns into something to big to fight.

 

[tallyho8]

About police stops:
It's like a double edge sword, it cuts both ways. You want to be left alone by the police but you want to be left alone by the criminals too. The police are unable to catch the criminals if we keep their hands tied. If we make stop and search rules more lenient, then we get complaints from citizens and the ACLU as in this article.
ACLU Questions Random NOPD Stops - Local News - New Orleans, LA - News - msnbc.com

About smoking:
It's widely recognized that there have to be rules to keep restaurants from putting toxic chemicals in the food that we eat. They are allowed to keep many toxic chemicals in the restaurant but in a safe place where they can not get into the food they serve. It would be foolish to state that " a restaurant should be allowed to serve food with toxic ingredients and if a diner doesn't like it then he should go eat somewhere else".

The same rule should apply to cigarettes. Restaurants should not allow toxic smoke to be in the air we breathe. It is the same as allowing toxic chemicals in the food they serve. Telling people to go work or eat in a different restaurant that does not serve toxic food or make you breathe toxic air is not the answer.

Banning cigarette smoking everywhere is not the answer either.

I feel that a restaurant, bar, etc. should be able to allow smoking inside if they are able to properly remove the smoke from the air that the people breathe just as restaurants are able to store toxic chemicals as long as they make sure they are not in the food the diners eat.

There are many fresh air alternatives available to commercial establishments to insure that their air remains clean. It is more expensive to provide clean air but the cost can be passed on to the customers who wish to smoke in the establishments.

Just as the health inspector inspects the restaurant for contaminated food and shuts it down if he finds violations, he can also check the air quality and do the same.

There are NO rules, laws, or ordinances that will make everyone happy because every one of them restricts someone from doing something that they want to do that others don't want them to do. But rules are what separates man from the animal kingdom. Rules are civilization!

 

[hawkeye08]

As Jay Leno says, having a non smoking section in a diner is like having a non peeing section in a pool.

 

[hawkeye08]

My point is all the little BS adds up over time and sooner or later turns into something to big to fight.

Ah come on, you're just upset because your pond is filling with water from the rains while you're trying to work on it.

 

[sodamo]

The More I think about it...........I may just go up in the attic and find my old Pipes..I used to enjoy smoking a pipe...maybe I will take that up agian and dare someone to try and stop me from smoking my pipe on my farm ....Yeah ...that's the ticket.

Of course that could directly affect your insurance.... Oops another thread.

 

[impdaddy]

LOL Good one Hawkeye

 

[sweettractors]

Of course that could directly affect your insurance.... Oops another thread.

Would that be health insurance or homeowners insurance? Ken Sweet

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

I'm listing those examples because I get sick of hearing about the poor employees not wanting to work in a bar because of smoke, thats kind of like saying I'd like to be a pilot but I don't want to go in the air. If someone doesn't like smoke then find another employer, of course up here it is to late.

Sorry, have to disagree with you on that one. Although more and more the vocal minority seems to be dictating rules for the rest of us, smokers are in the minority by approx 3:1 ratio. There are lots of workplaces other than bars or restaurants. Don't agree I should quit a good job because some @#$%^&^ smoker thinks s/he has the "right" to smoke beside my desk and foul my air.

How about hospital patients - can they leave and go somewhere else because the Doc / Nurse or patient in the next bed needs to smoke?

 

[20 20]

Sorry, have to disagree with you on that one. Although more and more the vocal minority seems to be dictating rules for the rest of us, smokers are in the minority by approx 3:1 ratio. There are lots of workplaces other than bars or restaurants. Don't agree I should quit a good job because some @#$%^&^ smoker thinks s/he has the "right" to smoke beside my desk and foul my air.

I think you missed my point, if you owned a private business would it not be your right to allow any legal activity that you decide? Lets say your a contractor{carpentry} you believe nothing beats an ole fashion hammer. Government steps in and says "To bad Cinderschnauzer, from now on you are only allowed air hammers, the employees are hitting their fingers to much."

You call the smoker a @#$%^&^ are you really thinking about freedoms or just busy labeling someone because you don't agree with their habit? Their are many people with many habits that I don't care for but that does not mean I have the right to dictate their life, nor a private business owners.

Are you against motor vehicles they pollute WWAAYY more of your air then any smoker could.

By the way I'm not sticking up for smokers, the way I look at it is, that it is still considered a legal activity in this country. SO either ban smoking all together or live with it.......... I still say if you don't like the fact that Joe's bar and grill allows smoking then don't go there, NOT even for a JOB!!! Joe worked hard to build HIS place he is trying to live the American dream HIS not HITLERS

 

[Scooby074]

Round here they tried "separate smoking sections", and open smoking in bars only.

That worked for a bit, but then the main issue came up : Someone has to serve and clean up after these smokers.

Basically it came down to a workers comp thing. Non smoking workers of which there are more than smokers (remember that 3:1 thing) didnt want to be exposed. So the rooms had to go, along with all the money that these places put in to install them.

Now the smokers have to go outside. and they cant stand within 25'?? of the door.

As a non-smoker with kids i have to say its a change for the better... although at the time it sure seemed to take some of the "ambiance" out of the bars i used to frequent.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

As to unrealistic laws, why do we need cell phone and texting laws? We already have reckless driving and negligent driving. Of course it is ok for law enforcement to ignore them and be talking on cell phone held to their ear while driving...

My state's new cell phone law just went into effect 1 oct, which says you can initiate and end a call, but you can't hold a cell phone during the conversation while driving, i.e. you have to talk "hands free". Also you can't text while driving.

Tonight I had a state trooper go by me the opposite direction, he was yaking on a cell phone holding it up to his ear.....

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

I think you missed my point, if you owned a private business would it not be your right to allow any legal activity that you decide?
You call the smoker a @#$%^&^ are you really thinking about freedoms or just busy labeling someone because you don't agree with their habit?

Legal private business is regulated in many ways by Gov. As someone who smoked 2 packs no filter cigs per day for 25 years I feel quite comfortable "labeling" smokers and commenting on smokers.

The smoker / anti smoker argument is larger than both of us and nothing either of us says here will change the current situation - mainly that while smoking is legal it is also a regulated activity.

Based on your line of thinking - drinking is legal - why can't we all do that wherever and whenever we want? How about a beer on my desk at work?

As others have said I appreciate that you served your country and I also deplore many of the freedoms we seem to be losing and the restrictions placed upon us, in many cases by the actions of a few.

However, I also think we need to be aware of the difference between a "right" and a "privilege". The ability for someone else to blow smoke in my face or yours is not a "right" and that is one reason why it is controlled by laws and regulations. It is not my "right" to smoke in an enclosed vehicle when I am transporting small children - who since they are under my control cannot make a conscious choice to leave.

The day I get asked to show ID to buy Liquid Nails at HD will be the day i walk out and refuse to buy the product.

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

As a non-smoker with kids i have to say its a change for the better... although at the time it sure seemed to take some of the "ambiance" out of the bars i used to frequent.

When this first came up all the bars and restaurants were going to go out of business.

In fact, most are doing better than ever.

 

[MossRoad]

Moss - Please clarify for me what you consider political since you are a Moderator. To me as long as no one is talking about democrats or republicans or specific parties or candidates but rather our rights as Americans...that can hardly be politcal in my view but if I am wrong please correct me.

I am the one that will soon start talking politics, not anyone else... so that's why I'm sitting on the sidelines. :laughing:

 

[20 20]

When this first came up all the bars and restaurants were going to go out of business.

In fact, most are doing better than ever.

I have to say just the opposite happened up here, many small pubs went belly up within a year. These were the small types that had a pool table and a place to sit and talk with the local boys, might even have a burger on the menu. When Pubs 1st came out they were designed as a place where a man could go to have his smoke a beer and just BS about whatever. Slowly this regualtion or that has killed the traditional small bar, "where everybody knew your name"{cheers}.

CinderSchauzer; I also smoked like a chimney at one time and chewed, I'm glad I had the freedom to choose to do so, just like I had the freedom to quit. I don't like the smell of cigs anymore, but that does not give me the right to dictate to Joe's PUB what he should or should not allow in HIS PRIVATE LEGAL business{period}. With this line of thinking then instead of ID'ing for liquid nails at HD maybe we should just have a law that forbids them from selling it all together

 

[20 20]

Based on your line of thinking - drinking is legal - why can't we all do that wherever and whenever we want? How about a beer on my desk at work?

does the company owner allow it?

As others have said I appreciate that you served your country and I also deplore many of the freedoms we seem to be losing and the restrictions placed upon us, in many cases by the actions of a few.

that was my point for starting the thread.

However, I also think we need to be aware of the difference between a "right" and a "privilege".

I quess a legal activity for society would be the right of everyone.

The ability for someone else to blow smoke in my face or yours is not a "right" and that is one reason why it is controlled by laws and regulations.

You keep saying folks blow smoke in your face, the last person that did that to me ended up on his___. Going into a private establishment is entirely different then someone walking into a post office and lighting up. We the people own the post office, WE have NO claim to a private business.

It is not my "right" to smoke in an enclosed vehicle when I am transporting small children - who since they are under my control cannot make a conscious choice to leave.

I can understand this law, it is there to protect. Now would you feel the same if the government stepped in and sad you can't eat Mc D's in your car? I threw Mc D's out there to make a point, I'm not arguing about smoke I'm arguing about rights. After all there have been accidents caused by paying more attention to fries and a big gulp then steering a vehicle.

The day I get asked to show ID to buy Liquid Nails at HD will be the day i walk out and refuse to buy the product.

I needed the product to do a job and from what the cashier told me it is the citys law not HD's.

 

[chopped]

Recently, when
I went to McDonald's I saw on the menu that you
could have an order of 6, 9 or 12 Chicken
McNuggets.

I asked for a half dozen nuggets.


'We don't have half dozen nuggets,' said the
teenager at the counter.

'You don't?' I replied.

'We only have six, nine, or
twelve,' was the reply.

'So I can't order a
half dozen nuggets, but I can order six?'


'That's right.'

So I shook my head and
ordered six McNuggets

(Unbelievable but
sadly true...)