Plumbing Rant-Part II

[N80]

First the good news. I got a basin wrench as suggested (thanks guys) and my sink repair/install went just fine. No leaks and the kitchen cabinets in the cabin are now complete. Well, my wife wants them painted and I don't do paint. So they'll technically be finished when she paints them.

Now for the bad news. I spent the night at the cabin last night and this morning I got a frantic call from my wife (who is at home). The first thing shes says is "How do I shut the water off!" Turns out another copper pipe busted. This time over the kitchen. Water is pouring out of the cabinets, all over the floor. The wood on the countertops buckle popping tiles up. Floor is okay. Doors won't close on some of the kitchen cabinets. Ceiling (which I just spent $600 redoing) is trashed. Plumber came out and replaced all the remaining copper (I'd already had the underside of the house re-done) with PEX. Had to rip out a bunch of undamaged ceiling. Had to rip a bunch of money out of my wallet too. $3100! I shouldn't complain I guess, they were here right away and had it done by this afternoon before I got back from the cabin. So all the copper is gone.

My wife talked to USAA Insurance and they'll pay for some of it. But, I've got a $1000 deductable and they won't pay for the installation of the new lines. I should have told them, fine, I'll just patch this leak and leave the copper in and you can pay for the next catastrophic leak too. I might still mention it. I've never made a claim with them. No matter how you slice it, this is going to cost me at least $3000.

Its actually probably going to cost me more. I'm ready to get out of this money pit. I've been in it 10 years, its about 30 years old. Typical 1970's workmanship (a.k.a. garbage). Sometimes I look at the work I did on my cabin which I built myself, learning as I went, and I think, boy that doesn't look too good. If I was to do it again I'd do better. But then I look at some of the stuff that was done in this house, by pro's, and my DIY jobs at the cabin look a lot better.

I'd love a brand new house. Something nice and small. Spend the money on good plumbing, electrical, windows, etc. Screw the square foot thing. Most of the space in these big houses is an utter waste anyway. Heck, my kids will be gone in another 4 years. Maybe I can find a one bedroom job.

Anyway, sorry for rant #2. But for what I'm going to spend to return the money pit to its previous state of fair-to-middling repair I could have had a new canopy, a toothbar, a dump trailer, a disk and a hydraulic top link. You know, fun stuff.

 

[turnkey4099]

That insurance bit about not paying for the replacement is the purest bull. They should be paying to put the place back in original, useable condition. There must be some way to appeal that decision.

Harry K

 

[bones1]

My home insurance man told not to make a claim, save it for a major event.He said if you make small claims,5k-50000 the policy will increase yearly to cover the claim amount.Same with auto insurance.
So I asked him.If I paid thousands a year for home and auto coverage, without ever having any claims and now if I need to make a claim I get penalized.What happened to all the money I paid you for 30yrs? Let's see.....$ 3500.00 a year for home and cars for 30 years=$105,000.00 I would think that would be used for my claims.....not.It's a business like anything else he say's.We're paying twice.Or more if you count lost interest......I'm done now.Gonna go get on my un-insured tractor.

 

[N80]

That insurance bit about not paying for the replacement is the purest bull. They should be paying to put the place back in original, useable condition. There must be some way to appeal that decision.

Harry K

No final decisions have been made yet. We've only started the process. They're sending someone out to look at walls and floors. Kitchen countertop continues to warp and tiles still popping up. I intend to deal firmly with the insurance company. We've never made a homeonwers claim and I plan on getting the most I can legally get. There's a lot of small print in the policy...any policy I suspect.

But they are a good insurance company. No problem with auto claims. They did increase my auto rates for accidents in which we were at fault, but not otherwise.

Turnkey, I do not expect my homeowner rates to go up because of this claim. If they do, I'll get insurance elsewhere. As your agent said, its a business. If they want to keep my business they'll need to treat me fairly. I've eaten a couple of small problems that I could have claimed, but this one is looking like it could easily run over $6K. I'm guessing the kitchen counters are toast.

On the bright side, we finished the cabin kitchen today, even painting the cabinets. All that is left is to add the drawer pulls and cabinet door handles. It all came together pretty well for a total DIY project.

 

[Dusty]

All homeowner policies are going up in the US, because of the losses that the insurance companies took after Hurricane Katrina. Doesn't matter where you live, the insurance companies treat us all alike. If the loose money in one area, then they make it up in all areas that they service. I have heard that some of the people in Florida and some of the other states that have had large natural disasters happen recently can't even get insurance at any price. I am not saying that this is fair, but that is the way that insurance works. If you have a claim, your rates will go up. If you don't have a claim, your rates will also go up, if the company has had to pay out a large sum because of some natural disaster. The profits from previous good years went to pay dividends to the policy holders or the stock holders. When the companies loose money, they don't pay the dividends. Like any other business, they have to raise the prices to stay in business. When they pay a claim to one person, we all pay for the costs of that claim.
Dusty

 

[Farwell]

If your insurance company treats you unfairly, it is time to get some legal assistance. It usually does not matter how long you have been with the company or how good a customer you are, it is their goal to pay out no more money than they can get away with. You will not believe how far they will go and the bs they will pull.
Farwell

 

[randy41]

if you have insurance then use it to its fullest extent....isnt doing otherwise just stupid?

 

[Dusty]

If your insurance company treats you unfairly, it is time to get some legal assistance. It usually does not matter how long you have been with the company or how good a customer you are, it is their goal to pay out no more money than they can get away with. You will not believe how far they will go and the bs they will pull.
Farwell

If you think that the company is going to treat you unfairly, then the better method to getting an attorney, is to get a Public Adjuster. These are people that are adjusters that work for you, not the insurance company. They will meet with the insurance companies adjuster and work out a settlement that will be both fair and equitable for all parties involved. I have seen where they will get a bigger chunk than you as a homeowner will ever be able to. You need to have a sizable claim for them to be willing to take you on as a client. The going rate is 10% of what you get from the insurance company. If you have a private insurance agent, he can advise you how to locate a Public Adjuster. If your policy is directly written by the insurance company and there is no agent involved, then you will have to find one on your own. I like to have an independent insurance agent because they will work for you, the client, vs a company agent that works for his employer, the insurance company.
Here is an interesting article about homeowners insurance from Wall Street Journal Online.
Dusty

 

[turnkey4099]

That insurance bit about not paying for the replacement is the purest bull. They should be paying to put the place back in original, useable condition. There must be some way to appeal that decision.

Harry K

OOPS! I rethought that. Yes, they can refuse to pay for the pipe replacement. All they would be required to do was fix the leak that developed by patching it (plus any damage caused by the leak of course).

Even if the pipes were shown to be in such a shape as to require total replacement, that would be under 'normal wear and tear' and thus not subject to insurance.

Harry K

 

[N80]

I think you are right about that, they are paying for what the water damaged and damage caused in repairing that damage.

A Public Adjuster sounds like a good idea. This claim may be too small for that, plus, my F-I-L who lives about a mile from me is an attorney who is willing to help if necessary. I'm going to try to give these folks the benefit of the doubt and give them the opportunity to treat me right. If not, I'll do whatever I have to.

 

[Fishguy]

N80,
Trust me I feel your pain!! Several years back ('93) my septic line to the tank became partially blocked. As a result, flood. Turns out my daughter was having a sleep over. When they went down for the night about 9:00 they used the commode in my bathroom. Little did I or they notice but the float stuck and the commode ran for at least 2 hours before I noticed it. Faster than the line would allow. Funny how you learn there is a problem but that was when I found that the wax seal on the toilet was bad.

Any way, needless to say the floors warped so bad that even the sub-floor was shot. The insurance company sent a guy out for an estimate. I couldn't believe that he was going to charge the company $5500 to "trim" around the tub, cabinets and such, then replace just the top flooring. And they were going to go for it!! The floor was done with partical board of all things. You just know that the water was sucked up under things and would cause major problems down the road.

I squawked and told them to give me the money and I'll do it my self. They subtracted my $500 deductable and gave me 5K. With that I was able to completely gut the whole room to studs and joist. Then remodeled the room and had enough left to over to recarpet all the bedrooms and the main hall.

So if you have the patience and knowledge, wait them out. See what it will cost them, and offer to do it yourself. I got a whole new bathroom for it!


Steve

 

[EddieWalker]

So if you have the patience and knowledge, wait them out. See what it will cost them, and offer to do it yourself.

I've heard this from others as well. The insurance companies always offer a low initial price just to see if you'll take it. They are out nothing by doing this and have everything to gain. Hold out until you get what you want.

I know for a fact this works in the auto insurace industry. My Dad was hit by another driver who ran a stop sign. His fault. Insurance offered what they said the vehicle was worth. Dad said no and kept saying no until they gave him what he wanted. Three times there initial offer.

Eddie

 

[N80]

Fishguy, I am a DIY sort, but I'm very short on finesse and I'm just not up for drywall and ceiling work, too much skill involved. Plus, there is going to be a lot of tile work and I know I'd screw that up.

As far as the estimate, I'll probably get someone I trust to give me a good fair estimate for the whole thing (repair of damages) and pretty much demand that amount.