plumbing 4 air ?

[patrick_g]

Proabably a dumb question. Can you rent the Pex Crimpers? There is a shop here in town that will go out and purchase a tool if there is enough request for it. For them to spend $140 to buy it then rent it seems like a good business case.
Jim

NOT a dumb question! If you will only need it for a day and maybe in a non-emergency mode later for a repair or extension of your system, then renting is reasonable. Guys used to rent torque wrenches, timing lights and other tools. I never checked into rental so can't say.

If the rental place to which you refer has a toll free number give it to me and I will call them several times over the next week to increase the demand for the tool so they will get one for you to rent.

I first got one because I had a cow push over a frost free hydrant that was plumbed with PEX. I whittled a wooden plug I secured with a hose clamp so as not to shut my mom's water off and made a 60 mile Round trip to get a tool and parts. Unfortunately I was blissfully unaware of the kind of tool that fit 2 or 3 different sizes and got a one size tool to my continuing regret.

If you encourage the rental shop to get a tool, suggest the one that does more than one size.

Pat

 

[brandoro]

Regardless of the type of pipe/tubing that you use for air lines, where my main air line runs just above the work bench I put all of the "drops?" above the main air line. That way little or no water is expelled with the air into whatever tool I am using. I have a drain just before the line gets to the bench and another past the end of the bench with a slight downslope on the line towards the end drain so that gravity and air movement encourage any moisture towards the drain at the end. To me this is a better, cheaper and simpler alternative to trying to drain water at each drop. Much less chance of getting water in your air tools or into the intricacies of whatever part you are using air to blow dust, oil or solvent out of.
For the record, I used copper with a short piece of reinforced rubber air line for flexibility from the compressor, so far quite happy with that choice.

 

[AlanB]

Also be careful with saying "pex" that there are multiple styles and brands and they are not all interchangeable.

When I was looking the plumbing houses had everything in stock, but were only open plumbing house hours (not when I was working on the house) and lowes had one style, and was closing out an older style (different tools) and HD had one style set of tools, and another type of fitting that was a different style then the tools they had..........

Just make sure you get it all straight to work together.

 

[ray66v]

Regardless of the type of pipe/tubing that you use for air lines, where my main air line runs just above the work bench I put all of the "drops?" above the main air line. That way little or no water is expelled with the air into whatever tool I am using. I have a drain just before the line gets to the bench and another past the end of the bench with a slight downslope on the line towards the end drain so that gravity and air movement encourage any moisture towards the drain at the end. To me this is a better, cheaper and simpler alternative to trying to drain water at each drop. Much less chance of getting water in your air tools or into the intricacies of whatever part you are using air to blow dust, oil or solvent out of.
For the record, I used copper with a short piece of reinforced rubber air line for flexibility from the compressor, so far quite happy with that choice.

I tried both up and down drops, I thought down worked better. Got less water in tools. This is the way it is put in professionally. Either way works if done right.

 

[Kays Supply]

I use Nibco SS sleeves and tools. They have more area to crimp. I tried the one size fits all rings. When one of the crimp points broke while crimping I sent the tools and fittings back to my supplier and went with the tool for each size. In the last two days we installed over 1000' of PEX.

 

[john_bud]

I tried both up and down drops, I thought down worked better. Got less water in tools. This is the way it is put in professionally. Either way works if done right.

Every one of my drops has a "T" and a ball valve on the down part of the T. The horizontal goes to a dryer filter or dryer,filter, oiler. The side for paint goes past 4 downs with ball valves, and 2 dryers.

Just expansion dryers, can't afford to cool it !

jb

 

[tlbuser]

With an oil type compressor that gives some aditional factors to consider. I have never read anything about oil and PEX.

Pat

Interestingly enough, Duraplus does

WARNING
Certain compressor and lubricant oils
will damage your Duraplusï½® Air-Line
installation.
Before using any oils in the system
contact IPEX to obtain a list of
recommended oils or to confirm individual
oil suitability.

Haven't found a similar one for the Duratech line though. The duraplus looks more promising since it uses a solvent weld process.

 

[patrick_g]

Interestingly enough, Duraplus does

WARNING
Certain compressor and lubricant oils
will damage your Duraplusｮ Air-Line
installation.
Before using any oils in the system
contact IPEX to obtain a list of
recommended oils or to confirm individual
oil suitability.

Haven't found a similar one for the Duratech line though. The duraplus looks more promising since it uses a solvent weld process.

TLBUSER, Thanks for the info. I was suspicious about oil and plastic but hadn't seen any credible documentation. Now I have a source of info, IPEX. Thanks.

Brandoro, The reason for drops pointing down from the horizontal runs is at least twofold: 1. in pro installations the horizontals are typically run higher than doors and archways so taps have to run upward to connect to the supply lines and 2. the vertical "drop" continues down past the tap from which air is used to form a reservoir for condensation and a drain point for same.

Vertical downward drops with taps for usage well above the bottom drains let the water drops run down hill, aided by gravity, where their momentum/inertia tends to cause them to overshoot the turn where you are tapping off air and to go into the vertical pipe below your air use point where they collect for draining. This action is sort of a centrifugal separator. You lose this action with upward aimed "drops" and condensation droplets can much more easily end up in the air you are using.

A plus factor for metal pipes is that they are much better heat sinks than plastic, even plastic with a layer of aluminum sandwiched in. The metal pipes act like a radiator or the condenser line of a moonshine still. They help cool the hot air coming out of the compressor which has the beneficial and desirable effect of causing moisture to condense out of your compressed air. I've seen tall skinny "U" shaped runs near the compressor just for the purpose of condensing moisture. They use a drain at the bottom of the "U" and the metal pipe leaving the "U" ran slightly uphill for quite a ways so additional condensation would run down hill to the "U" where it would be drained.

Pending oil vs plastic investigations, I am favorably disposed toward plastic or plastic aluminum layered lines but will use metal lines out of the compressor and likely a fined heat exchanger also to help ensure condensation will be encouraged well ahead of the plastic distribution plumbing. Still, I will use the vertical downward drops such as are recommended in every reference I have seen by any supplier of air line components. Valves for drains are cheap and seal well. The vertical drops will offer extra insurance that water will be diverted from my consumption lines.

Pat

 

[ray66v]

If you don't mind the extra cost, put 2 valves, (I like ball valves), at the end of the drop separated by about 12" of pipe. Then, you close the upper valve first, and open the lower valve second. This allows the water to drain slowly rather than being blow out all over the place by the air pressure.

 

[brandoro]

Maybe not all 'professional' installations are the same. I have seen 'drops' going upward from the main line in a body shop where they are quite concerned about moisture in the air.
I have about 30' of 1" copper line between the compressor and the 3/4" line that runs across above my bench that I expect condenses out most of the moisture. Has worked very well for me and uses fewer fittings.

 

[ray66v]

Maybe not all 'professional' installations are the same. I have seen 'drops' going upward from the main line in a body shop where they are quite concerned about moisture in the air.
I have about 30' of 1" copper line between the compressor and the 3/4" line that runs across above my bench that I expect condenses out most of the moisture. Has worked very well for me and uses fewer fittings.

Not all install's are professional. We had such an up flow system in my body shop. However, we put it in our selfs.
An up flow system can work, however the first sign of water in the air, is when the main trunk line is loaded with water, rather than a small amount in the drop line. If you reach this point, you have to bleed out the system to drain the trunk. Shutting down production while the air supply recovers, add to that the noise of such a bleed down, (+115db) and the mess. We changed it to a down flow and were much happier.
These problems are exacerbated by very high volume use of the air supply. If you don't intend to use a lot of volume, and can be very diligent about draining the condensate you may not have much trouble with an up flow.
A good drier after the compressor is always a good way to eliminate all these problems.

 

[SpringHollow]

Most homeowners and many contractors want the Pex Pocket Crimper

The Pex Pocket Crimper- For permanent crimp connections with PEX tubing fittings

Only $35 and does 3/8, 1/2, and 3/4 and can get into tight spaces. I have one and love it. I also bought their 1" crimper since i use 1" in heating systems. These crimpers are for the wedding bands style bands. I have used them on lots of fittings. I also have a large full size standard crimper but there are lots of places i can not reach with it.

Ken

 

[tlbuser]

but will use metal lines out of the compressor and likely a fined heat exchanger also to help ensure condensation will be encouraged well ahead of the plastic distribution plumbing.

Pat

A little over a year ago, I purchased a cheapo dryer. So far, so good on keeping things dry. Painting is one issue, but running dry for my plasma cutter is a huge concern too.

Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices

 

[patrick_g]

Maybe not all 'professional' installations are the same. I have seen 'drops' going upward from the main line in a body shop where they are quite concerned about moisture in the air.

Perhaps their concern for dry air motivated them to install a dryer of some sort, even the throw away cartridge type. With sufficiently dry air it just doesn't matter that water flows downhill as there isn't any.

Pat

 

[patrick_g]

A little over a year ago, I purchased a cheapo dryer. So far, so good on keeping things dry. Painting is one issue, but running dry for my plasma cutter is a huge concern too.

I bought a HF filter with water absorbing cartridge. It is a big metal canister with regulator. So far it has done well with my plasma cutter and paining but... the refrigerated dryer you referred to is getting mighty tempting.

Pat

 

[john_bud]

I bought a HF filter with water absorbing cartridge. It is a big metal canister with regulator. So far it has done well with my plasma cutter and paining but... the refrigerated dryer you referred to is getting mighty tempting.

Pat

Depends on how much juice it sucks down! You can't really just shut it off or the lines will moist up. So you have to blow down the air system just to power off the cooler. I'd bet it can run the meter hard.

jb

 

[ray66v]

I bought a . It is a big metal canister with regulator. So far it has done well with my plasma cutter and paining but... the refrigerated dryer you referred to is getting mighty tempting.

Pat

I have seen some great filters for absorbing and trapping water. But, I have yet to see a filter that removes water vapor, (there might be one out there I have not seen). Water vapor can pass through almost anything and condense downstream. This is why if you really need dry air, you need a dryer.
I use a desiccant dryer, (at home), because it was the only thing under $1K, 15 years ago. And it works great. If I bought today, I would get a refrigerated dryer.

 

[patrick_g]

Ray, I will be considering replaceable desiccant (filter? dryer?) as substitute for the mechanical compressor chiller thing. I may not do enough water vapor critical air consumption to warrant the mech unit.

Pat

 

[tlbuser]

Depends on how much juice it sucks down! You can't really just shut it off or the lines will moist up. So you have to blow down the air system just to power off the cooler. I'd bet it can run the meter hard.

jb

Some guys just always have to think on the conservative side Too bad the local and state gov'ts don't. Just made a run to northern NY and the amount of lighting on the bridges and roadways is astounding. No energy conservatio

 

[tlbuser]

Depends on how much juice it sucks down! You can't really just shut it off or the lines will moist up. So you have to blow down the air system just to power off the cooler. I'd bet it can run the meter hard.

jb

Some guys just always have to think on the conservative side Too bad the local and state gov'ts don't. Just made a run to northern NY and the amount of lighting on the bridges and roadways is astounding. No energy conservation concerns there