plowing with hydro

[JMER817]

What are your thoughts on moldboard plowing with a tractor with a hydro? I have a JD 4310 (32hp) and am thinking of purchasing either a one or two bottom plow and disc harrow to work my garden area every year? Soil is somewhat rocky so tiller takes a beating.

 

[john_bud]

Should work good. I use a 2x14 with my L3410 hst kubota and there are no problems. You need to plow faster than you think to throw the sod over, so don't go crazy with it!

 

[Soundguy]

I'd think anything up to a 2-14 or a 1-16 would be fine with that hp.. etc.

soundguy

 

[JMER817]

I should have enough hp for a two bottom, traction will probabaly be the only limiter, my main concern is in regards to the hydro> overheating poblems?

 

[schmism]

when i plowed up my garden for the first time (virgin sod) i could not pull both bottoms of my 2x14.

now that i has been tilled for a couple of years i can squeek it out. If the soil condition is right (mosture) and ive got the plow setup well it goes ok. otherwise its a tough pull that is frustrating.

I generally come up short on traction with my R4's. if you were to take a soil condtion that was a bit wet, i get great traction then, but its harder to pull and i wind up hitting the bypass which again is really frustrating.

by far the hardest ive worked my little TC33 has been when i try to pull my 2x14

 

[Oleozz]

Like Schmism I was plowing in near virgin sod , 45 hp tractor pulling a 2 btm 12 and that made it grunt. I would probably go with a 1 btm 14.
The hydro should not be a problem with garden plots, seems to me it would be almost ideal.

 

[john_bud]

I don't think over heating will be your issue. It's no harder on the engine than cutting thick weeds and brush. Just keep the radiator clean and the hydro fluid cooler clean and it should be fine. Actually, good for the tractor to get it good and hot to evaporate out any moisture from the fluid as many CUT's don't get worked hard enough normally.

Schmism has a good point on the tough pull in virgin ground. But if the disc's are sharp and everything is free of rust and adjusted correctly it will pull well. Traction is gained when the plow is pulling the tractor down, so that's not normally an issue unless you are on wet clay or something like that. After a half hour any rust will be worn off, so it's just starting out that you may have trouble. I really can't explain how to set up the plow correctly, but there are guys here like Farmwithjunk that surely can! If he doesn't pipe in, you may want to PM him.

 

[Solo]

When you buy your plow make sure you get an owners manual with it. My Lienbach plow came with great setup instructions. If you don't have a plow set right it can be really frustrating.

Solo

 

[JMER817]

I have plenty of plowing experience under my belt...used to do 10 acres with a Ford 600 and two bottom plow when I was a kid growing up on a small hobby farm. I was just mainly concerned about the hydo...thanks for the help all!

 

[Farmerford]

If it is typical small garden I agree you should not have a problem.

But I am not sure you can assume that you can plow all day in hot weather with any HST without overheating problems. I know for a fact that you can't with a Kubota L4330 in south Georgia in the summertime, because I have one. Perhaps it is an aberration, but I don't think Kubota really tested this tractor under extreme conditions. The grill design is very restrictive. I replaced it with a home made perforated metal grill that eliminates the lights and other plastic trim that interferes with airflow. That almost solved the problem. When I get a chance I am going to relocate the battery from right in front of the radiator to the FEL upright. I hope that completely solves the problem.

The L4330 is a 43hp tractor. The HST, which uses a piston pump and piston motor (like most HST's), is about 75% efficient (the pump and motor are each about 85%). That means that at full load, of the 43hp leaving the engine, only 33hp reachs the transmission output shaft. The remaining 10hp is dissipated as heat in the transmission fluid. I don't have my hp to BTU/hr conversion table handy, but in the case of the L4330 it is more than the cooling system can handle. First, the transmission fluid temp climbs towards 200 deg F. Then the coolant temp climbs to over 250 deg F (that's when the overheat warning light comes on).

That does not happen when I am using the rotary mower, because the majority of the engine power is going through the PTO system rather than the HST.

 

[schmism]

That does not happen when I am using the rotary mower, because the majority of the engine power is going through the PTO system rather than the HST.

i agree, i can hear the engine pull down in heavy (chest deep) grass i brush hog once a year, but i can keep that up all day long and the HST system bairly cares.

having the HST barly (for lack of a better word) squeeling for the 30 min it takes me to plow, sometimes hitting bypass is really hard on the ol HST system.

there is no greater load you can put on a HST then heavy draft implements.

 

[john_bud]

Farmerford, My L3410 does not do that, but it only has plowed in 95 F heat for 6 -8 hours at a crack. I know you southern types live in heat that would melt lead (ha ha). Do you clean out the radiator with water on occasion? I was just blowing mine out with compressed air, but found that there was still a snit pot of stuff in it. Water from the hose (no pressure washer) flushed it out good and it stays cool. Except when mowing clutter blocks the air or it gets dusted, but that takes 5 min to whack off and it's a good time for a pop too!

jb

 

[Barneyhunts]

I've plowed for two years with a B7800 (30 Hp HST) using a two bottom 12' Howse plow. In heavy sod I removed one bottom and plowed about an acre without a problem. My machine has Ag tires which are loaded and my problem was lack of traction. I also had little experience and no way to control the depth of my plow. This year I added a gauge wheel and plowed with both bottoms in the areas I had plowed and planted last year and it went much better. Having said that, I believe a heavier higher Hp. machine would be a better choice, and for me, I'd want it with HST. I don't think the transmission had any negative effect on the plowing I did.
Good Luck,
Barnet

 

[Soundguy]

I have plenty of plowing experience under my belt...used to do 10 acres with a Ford 600 and two bottom plow when I was a kid growing up on a small hobby farm. I was just mainly concerned about the hydo...thanks for the help all!

What model were they? ( both plow and tractor? )

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

But I am not sure you can assume that you can plow all day in hot weather with any HST without overheating problems. I know for a fact that you can't with a Kubota L4330 in south Georgia in the summertime, because I have one. .

Man.. that's sad.. i wouldn't own a tractor that could not put out it's full rated DB hp all day... that's what they are suposed to do.. etc.. Make their full rated hp and run till the tank is empty.. then refill and run some more..

soundguy

 

[pitt_md]

I know you said the ground was rocky but I think your best bet is to use your tiller. HST's seem to do well in that arena from what I have read. If your just making a garden then picking rocks should not be that big of a deal. Have fun witch ever way you go.

 

[AndyinIowa]

There aren't ANY new tractors available that are designed to run at full DB load every day continuously. All tractors are designed to meet duty cycle requirements for a specific market segment.

HST's have an inverse life to pressure relationship. a HST will gladly run at relief pressure, but life of the rotating kit is dramatically affected.

For instance, if you put a CUT HST on a flywheel stand, and do flywheel reversals (full forward speed to full reverse speed all day long), you will wear out the rotating kit in a very short time (100 hours or so).

Heat and contamination kill piston pumps and motors. Pressure affects the fatigue life of the components.

A common misconception with a LOT of CUT and SCUT owners is that faster keeps the tractor cooler. When pulling hard, slow down, keep the mechanical reduction drives in the lowest range possible, and listen to the hystat. It will tell you when you are pushing it too hard.

IowaAndy

 

[Solo]

A common misconception with a LOT of CUT and SCUT owners is that faster keeps the tractor cooler. When pulling hard, slow down, keep the mechanical reduction drives in the lowest range possible, and listen to the hystat. It will tell you when you are pushing it too hard.

IowaAndy

The best thing about a geared tractor is that you can tell your pushing it to hard, if you smell the clutch burning.

Solo

 

[john_bud]

The best thing about a geared tractor is that you can tell your pushing it to hard, if you smell the clutch burning.

Solo

I try to stop at the large cloud of black smoke..... Guess I need to "man up" and go the distance!

Funny

jb

 

[Soundguy]

I for sure, wouldn't buy a new tractor if it could not make it's rated hp fuel fill up to fuel fill up.

I know my gear jobs out in the barn will. I don't see any 'duty cycle' chapters in their manuals.

Obviously we are making engines matched to jobs.. look at gensets... the engine runs at it's rated hp for the generator to make it's steady rated power???

soundguy

There aren't ANY new tractors available that are designed to run at full DB load every day continuously. All tractors are designed to meet duty cycle requirements for a specific market segment.

HST's have an inverse life to pressure relationship. a HST will gladly run at relief pressure, but life of the rotating kit is dramatically affected.

For instance, if you put a CUT HST on a flywheel stand, and do flywheel reversals (full forward speed to full reverse speed all day long), you will wear out the rotating kit in a very short time (100 hours or so).

Heat and contamination kill piston pumps and motors. Pressure affects the fatigue life of the components.

A common misconception with a LOT of CUT and SCUT owners is that faster keeps the tractor cooler. When pulling hard, slow down, keep the mechanical reduction drives in the lowest range possible, and listen to the hystat. It will tell you when you are pushing it too hard.

IowaAndy