Plow vs scraper blade for driveway maintenance

[Komrade]

Newbie question. What are the pros and cons of using scraper blade vs snow plow for maintaining a driveway?
The snow plow is a myer fibre blade (7feet) with a steel plate at the bottom.

I need to create proper slope on the sides, water running down the middle of the road instead of to the sides.. driveway is steep)

Plow Pros:
* can drive forward downhill
* easy to attach/detach (quick attach)

Plow Cons:
* plow not that strong? (only bottom is a steel plate)
* maybe not as easy to tilt/maintain tilt
* not sure can see as well as scraper.. it's a good 5-6 feet ahead of the tractor.

Scraper Pros:
* that's what it's for
* can probably see better what I am doing
* driving uphill pushes washed down gravel up the hilll

Scraper Cons:
* don't have one
* will have to detach backhoe (haven't done it yet, garage is a mile drive)
* have to drive backwards uphill
* will have to detach and attach the backhoe back on

Driving backwards doesn't sound that appealing, but grading uphill may not be a bad thing. Move some of that washed down gravel up the hill.

Am I missing anything else?

Will this scraper do?
Scraper Blade

 

[jeff9366]

The correct nomenclature for that implement is an Angle Blade or Rear Blade.

These threads get confused, fast, when non-standard descriptives are used.

Angle Blades are mostly adjusted on a acute angle, so dirt will move across the front of the blade, filling low spots. (Think of a dedicated Road Grader.)

Therefore, in order to cover your tire tracks when used on an acute angle, an Angle Blade needs to be 12" (+/-) wider than your tire width.

Angle Blades will not cut compacted soil unless they are heavy; they rely on weight for down force.

Your can tilt an Angle Blade pretty far using the threaded Lifting Rod on the right side of your Three Point Hitch.

Tilted, an Angle Blade will allow you to trough the center of your road, if that is what you need to do.

"Shoes" are available for some Angle Blades, allowing dirt to be pulled along when the Rear Blade is used straight, rather than an angle, somewhat like a Box Blade.

A heavy Landscape Rake can do some of the same tasks as an Angle Blade but for dirt work exclusively an Angle Blade is the preferred implement. A Landscape Rake may be better for filtering gravel and stones.

 

[Threepoint]

I'll add a couple of thoughts. You don't necessarily need to drive backwards when grading (or even clearing snow) with a rear blade. You're right, trying to do it backwards, uphill, would be tough. Kinda like Ginger Rogers following Fred Astaire backwards and in high heels. But it can be done.

If the rear blade has an off-set capability (many good ones do), you can grade a few inches beyond the sidewall of your right rear wheel without as wide a blade.

 

[buickanddeere]

Neither work worth a darn if there is a 2nd snowfall before the first has melted. Ploughs and blades just raise ridges and mounds that now function as a "snow fence" . This makes the driveway drift in even faster.
A two stage blower is the tool to use.
What tractor do you have? Not a Ford N series I hope.

 

[vulcancowboy]

A nice feature of the rear blade is the ability to adjust the cutting angle of the blade via the top link.

 

[Komrade]

So is the right name rear blade (or angle blade), but it's (incorrectly) known as scrape blade (like I put in the title?)?

Now that I think about it, I don't see why I couldn't do it driving forward downhill with a blade scraping the driveway.

Offset capability is where you basically move the blade off-center so it becomes longer on one end, but shorter on the other?

See the link in my original post (here it is again. This one seems to have the feature. It's 72" wide. My manual says that's the max I can have. It doesn't have any remote control features. My tractor width is under 5ft.

Reference:
Kubota L3430 Tractor - Specifications - Attachments

 

[vulcancowboy]

It looks like the blade in the link has the ability to be offset by loosening the two bolts and sliding the blade.

 

[Komrade]

Neither work worth a darn if there is a 2nd snowfall before the first has melted. Ploughs and blades just raise ridges and mounds that now function as a "snow fence" . This makes the driveway drift in even faster.
A two stage blower is the tool to use.
What tractor do you have? Not a Ford N series I hope.

I guess I should have clarified that by maintaining the driveway, I meant gravel, not snow.
For snow I would prefer not to touch it at all so I wouldn't disturb the gravel. I agree if I was to touch it snow blower might be better.
It doesn't snow that much around here, but I did get stuck a few times. Just need to invest into snow chains on the truck.
Tractor is Kubota L3430

 

[Fallon]

A tractor is made for pulling, not pushing. A loader (with or without a plow blade) can push, but isn't optimal, at least for anything hard or packed.

Trying to plow dirt with a snow plow will tear up the plow, loader frame & not do that great of a job plowing. Most people plowing with a plow on the loader get pushed sideways badly. The loader & plow are way out front & even further from the main drive wheels. That puts a huge amount of leverage on the loader frame & pushing you in directions you don't want to go.

You can flip the scraper blade around & push backwards, but probably shouldn't, especially in anything other than light snow. Again, tractors & implements are made for pulling. The 3pt hitch is strong when pulled, but not that well supported when pushing. Take a yard stick & try to pull it apart... not happening. Then try to push the ends together. Probably won't work until you bend it a hair or don't push straight. Then it snaps easy. Same goes for your 3pt.

 

[Komrade]

A tractor is made for pulling, not pushing.

So best to use blade while moving forward. It was a misunderstanding on my part on how it gets used. I am good, I'd rather be pulling than pushing anyway.

The tractor is relatively heavy (6000#) to push non-compacted snow, IMO. Hopefully I won't need to find out one way or the other this winter. I agree it's probably not optimal for the job.

 

[Komrade]

Here's an alternative scraper blade. Looks a bit heavier, and a bit more rusty. The rust part probably don't matter too much.

King cutter tractor scraper blade

 

[Fallon]

Personally I find a box blade better than a scraper blade for moving dirt. They are sturdier, have scarfiers to loosen up dirt & most importantly are much heavier than a scraper blade. They also keep a pile of dirt trapped in-front of the blade to fill in low spots.

Check out everythingattachments (TBN sponsor too), they have good videos of operating the various gear at the bottom of each section. Also talk about the different use cases for scraper vs box blade down at the bottom of the box blade page.
Tractor Box Scrapers- Box Blades
Scrape Blades, Rear 3 Point Hitch Scrape Blades & Tractor Loader Scrape Blades

Their whole video collection at Tractor and Skid Steer Attachment Videos is a great place to go learn about impliments & their operation.

 

[nybirdman]

In your locale;not much snow.I rear blade for snow removal will suffice.Again Pull don't push with it,you also can turn the blade the other way and pull and it won't dig in.For dirt work;a rear blade will work but a box blade is much better but are not the best snow removal tool.If you already have a snow-plow,why not use it for it's intended purpose(adapt to the front) for your snow chores.
I use a 7ft.rear blade and a 8ft.snow-plow,we average maybe 80in.yr.

 

[Fallon]

Here's an alternative scraper blade. Looks a bit heavier, and a bit more rusty. The rust part probably don't matter too much.

King cutter tractor scraper blade

You can save about 50% buying used. It will be a bit ugly & rusty, but that won't affect it's performance at all. Your brand new one will get banged up & bludgeoned with rocks immediately anyways. Blades have a wear edge that can be worn down (and are designed to be replaced), but other than that, there's not much to wear out. You want to make sure a scraper blade can move, but even if it's stiff & gritty, it doesn't need to pivot much.

With implements, the heavier the better. Weight is what make these things work.

 

[Threepoint]

So is the right name rear blade (or angle blade), but it's (incorrectly) known as scrape blade (like I put in the title?)?

Now that I think about it, I don't see why I couldn't do it driving forward downhill with a blade scraping the driveway.

Offset capability is where you basically move the blade off-center so it becomes longer on one end, but shorter on the other?

See the link in my original post (here it is again. This one seems to have the feature. It's 72" wide. My manual says that's the max I can have. It doesn't have any remote control features. My tractor width is 6ft I believe.

Reference:
Kubota L3430 Tractor - Specifications - Attachments

"Scrape blade" is o.k., most folks will know what you mean. Everything Attachments uses it a lot on their website. Rear blade is probably the more common term, but counter-intuitive to me, since there are other types of blades that go on the rear. Now, "rear scrape blade" leaves little doubt...

The blade you link to on Craigs List does look like it offsets, by sliding the blade in a bracket, as vulcancowboy says. That's one way to do it, but requires a big wrench. Here's the kind of offset I had in mind, although not necessarily this particular brand: Everything Attachments 72 inch, 6 Way Deluxe Value Scrape Blade for Compact Tractors with 25-50 HP V2.0

If your rear tires are in fact 72" outside-tread to outside-tread, then a 72" blade won't clear your tracks once it's angled, unless it offsets. You might be o.k. with a blade longer than the 72" Kubota recommends, but I'd wait for input from folks with your particular tractor. Kubota calls for a 60" blade for my smaller B2150, but I've bladed miles of snowy driveways for years with a 72" blade on it. The problem with an angling blade that's a bit too long is that it creates a lever-arm that can scoot your rear end sideways when you're digging in or when the snow is more than a few inches. That's less of a concern with a heavy tractor and filled tires, of course.

If you're not planning to move snow, then a 60" or maybe 72" light-duty box blade sounds like it would be much better for what you want to do. I'd start with that. Then later add a 72" offsetting rear blade when your budget allows. I pretty much guarantee that you'll want to start moving snow when you see how much fun you're going to have with that tractor. By shortening the toplink and using care, you can avoid scraping off your gravel.

 

[Komrade]

My tractor is <60" wide (5ft). I made a math mistake above which I will correct now.
Also, folks keep bringing up snow. I am not worried about moving snow at this point.

I need to grade my driveway from bad washouts (and to prevent future washouts).. shoveling got old pretty quickly. It's about 400-500 long once I measure the whole loop.
Similar to what this guy is doing:
3GUTTER.jpg Photo by rliefveld | Photobucket

In addition there is a road in the community that needs maintenance. It's probably another 3000-4000 feet of potential maintenance. We don't get enough $ from homeowners to pay to fix it, so I may volunteer once I have the right equipment.

It sounds like a rear blade of 72" will do, but a box blade might be a good thing to shop around as well due to the fact that it might be less work (it keeps the loose gravel more even by keeping it in the box), plus it's heavier.

The dirt here is "hard". We are on a shale hill.

 

[Fallon]

Back blade, drag blade, blade, rear blade, scraper blade, grader blade... All pretty much different names for the same thing. Some could be other implements as well, but there isn't necessarily a proper name & can be lots of confusion.

I'm not quite happy with my 72" behind my L3200 (32hp, 3,200lbs with loader & loaded R4s). I want something wider, not quite sure if it clears my 60" track when mostly angled, but it's close. If I had it to do over again, I'd get an 84" or something. If I'm doing anything serious the back blade won't cut it anyway, I need to bust out the box 72" King Kutter box blade which is twice as heavy. The 72" box blade is fine for my tractor, not the heaviest in the world, which means it doesn't cut as well as some, but I can easily pull it with a full load of dirt 85% of the time.

Look for something 80"+ with a 6,000lbs tractor. I'd recommend keeping an eye on Craigslist, I see them all day long around here for $200-400. If it doesn't meet your needs, they are pretty easy to resell too.

I ended up getting hydraulic angle on mine & like it. I wouldn't get hydraulic tilt on a blade. Get a Top 'n Tilt kit on the tractor, similar cost & function, but it works with all implements not just the blade.

 

[Fallon]

Generally you are not going to do road maintenance with a back blade. Not enough weight. A box blade is what you need, or better yet a land plane grade scraper (look for the ETA video). The box blade is the most versatile implement though. Road maintenance means filling in potholes & washboard, which the back blade won't do well. The box blade will cut better & pull a pile of gravel around to fill in the low spots, the back blade can't pull nearly as much dirt & leaves stuff spilling off to the side.

Back blade works for light stuff & for snow, but not so much grading & serious dirt work.

 

[Tollster]

I used a York rake with scafier and blade in combination with the rock tines in a new 500 yards install, to remove stubborn rocks, even and pitch grade, and fill holes...
Naturally not the best tool for snow removal, but likely the best decisions I made when I was faced with the same situation last year.

This is a picture of a new one, mine is a golden oldie with zerks, and real cranks for pitch and height control, found it locally on craigslist for 600. Can drag it uphill with my 23 horse, 25 ton of gravel pitched and graded in combination with sub base leveling and pitching took about 3-4 hours.

 

[Baby Grand]

<snip>

I need to grade my driveway from bad washouts (and to prevent future washouts).. shoveling got old pretty quickly. It's about 400-500 long once I measure the whole loop.
Similar to what this guy is doing:
3GUTTER.jpg Photo by rliefveld | Photobucket

QUOTE]

<snip>

That looks like our very own 3RRL:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/116316-various-boxblade-uses.html?highlight=box+blade

A great reference for us dirt workers.