Comparison Plastic versus Paper, I mean Metal.

[eee]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> But not all plastics are the same there! Done right, they withstand UV like crazy, while the paint can chalk off the metal and it rusts. </font> )</font>

Some plastic is stronger than metals,we have plastics now that would lay outside a 100 years and never rot. We have some plastic where I work a piece of it 2" thick you could not bust it with a 14 pound sledge hammer. They use plastic in electric percolator coffee pots.
I have seen a line 36 " wide and about 12 feet long full of plastic and a high pressure water truck (10,000 PSI ) would spend days trying to cut through it.

 

[rockyridgefarm]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Aviation is great example. No expense spared on UV protectants for resins and coverings and the plastics themselves, but they are still affected. Their useful life has ended long before any visual damage has taken place. Their strength has been greatly reduced by UV damage and regular inspection and replacement of these items is required. )</font>

Aviation is subjected to far higher levels of radiation than we experience on the ground.

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( There is a small dent in the hood of the Kubota B2910, it will cost about $400 to repair )</font>

400 bucks to repair? what are they replacing it vs repair ing it?

For 400 you could have a car body shop remove it, sandblast, beat the dent out putty it and repait the whole tractor.. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( will the metal hood have rusted through? )</font>

keep that paint intact..


Soundguy

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="red"> ( Aviation is great example. No expense spared on UV protectants for resins and coverings and the plastics themselves, but they are still affected. Their useful life has ended long before any visual damage has taken place. Their strength has been greatly reduced by UV damage and regular inspection and replacement of these items is required. )
</font>

<font color="green"> Aviation is subjected to far higher levels of radiation than we experience on the ground. </font>

Comparing a tractor hood to an airplane cowling is actually pretty silly. When was the last time a tractor hood was REGULARILY subjected to 300 mph windloads?

The reality is that a tractor hood is there to help cover up the engine and make the tractor look pretty, and oh yea, it keeps some of junk out of the engine, air intake, etc. Fenders are basically deflectors. These pieces, regardless of their material (plastic or metal) are mostly cosmetic and safety and are rarely, if ever, structural. Even if a plastic part becomes brittle two or three decades from now, it will likely not be noticed UNTIL something lands on that part with a resounding thump. That same thump that may shatter that plastic part 30 years from now will also wreak havoc on a metal hood, that will likely be rusted in the same amount of time, especially where it bolts into place, etc.

Personally I think the whole arguement is much ado about nothing. Plastic is easier to maintain and just as durable, at least for the first 20 or 30 years. Metal has its place and its fans. I like them both, but for upkeep I prefer plastic.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="green"> For 400 you could have a car body shop remove it, sandblast, beat the dent out putty it and repait the whole tractor..
</font>

NOT WHERE I LIVE YOU CAN'T!

$400 was the cost estimate 2 years ago to remove the hood, pound it out, and repaint it. The estimate came from the dealership. Personally I don't have enough time to mess with making a working tractor look pretty. I'd rather spend my time on a restoration tractor than this.

 

[Soundguy]

Not sure where this post falls.. but I know the heavy equipment we buy for work at the GC I work for.. comes in metal body panels.. cat, JD kobelco.. hyster.. etc.. All the major manufacturers are using sheet metal.. not plastic for the body panels... ( and I'm sure you pay for that as well.. )

Soundguy

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="red"> All the major manufacturers are using sheet metal.. not plastic for the body panels </font>


Ingersoll Rand and JCB are using a lot of plastic and fiberglass on their newest generation of industrial & commercial units from asphalt rollers to TLBs. And from the looks of the CAT asphalt roller I see every day as I drive home through road construction, I strongly suspect that very curvy body work is probably fiberglass or plastic. But I could be wrong on that one.

Again, I think it boils down to choice and some like one and others like something else. This is much ado about very little indeed.

 

[Dutch445]

I'd bet that a lot of people don't even realize the extent of composite body panels in the auto industry. Saturn advertised it, but there are several GM models going back years with composite fenders, etc. The Transport/Silhouette vans were mostly plastic, and I bet a lot of others that I don't know of.
Funny thing about cars... most of them won't last 15 years anyways so who cares if they don't rust!
(I guess that doesn't apply as much for non salt using areas in the South)
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Soundguy]

I havn't seen those pieces of equipment.. so not disputing what you saw. Also.. none of the contractors are using IR equipment here either.. pretty much JD, cat, komatsu and kobelco. .. some older fiat and some older japanese stuff for the little contractors.

We don't do any asphalt work.. so have no asphalt equipment to compair that to.. most of our stuff is ground engaging, or finish grade prep. So far all the equipment we've got from cat and JD this year ( loaders, dozer, pan and road grader ) have been all metal body panels.

Just checking myself here.. but I just ran out to our yard.. and checked everything from our gradealls to the various vibratory, steel wheel and rubber tire rollers.. mixers.. various loaders and dozers... found nothing more than dash plastic ( and some metal dashes ).. and a few bits of cowling and weatherstripping as rubber or rubberized plastic. otherwise.. sheet meal and cast iron. Kick over to our semi trucks.. and yes... all fiberglass cab-overs.. etc.

I don't doubt that we will see some plastic soon. I've seen some large rubber tracked ?challanger? tractors and they appear to have plastic contoured body panels.

I think the issue is that when someone goes and pays 120K or 250K for a piece of yellow metal.. they want it to be 'metal'.. not plastic...

Soundguy

 

[rockyridgefarm]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I began to wonder some, how are the plastic fenders and all holding up and do they still look pretty good in the few years versus the metal ones denting and or rusting? Or should I not worry about it?
)</font>

To answer the question, the (JD) plastic is holding up very well. I am glad that I got it, and like it better the metal on my old tractor. The plastic isn't junk.

There are some very good metal skinned machines, I never meant they aren't good, just that the Deere plastic isn't junk.

There may also be metal, fiberglass, and plastic machines that are junk.

But you should not let a plastic hood and fenders keep you from at least considering a machine. Owners seem to be very happy with all types.

 

[firel7]

Not sure if this may have any influence on the discussion but just today I put a large dent in my hood. It was hit just right by a small piece of firewood. I am quite confident that if the hood was plastic it would have bounced right off without so much as a scratch. As I was considering selling my tractor and upgrading I had read this post last evening with quite some interest and then this happens today. I learned a few things, for me plastic will be the way to go, I now have a $200 repair or lesson, whichever way you look at it. And second, Never bother reading these kinds of posts as it is bound to bring me bad luck /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif lol
I just better not read about how a tractor blew up or something like that, /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[SPIKER]

LOL @ Firel7: the OLD CUB we had got the cowl destroyed by a hunk of fire wood, (limb *" by 8' rolled back over fel & smashed it flat, PLASTIC and cost 290 if i remember right.

as for GM making PLASTIC cars, yes they been doihg it for a long time 55 corvette but that was actually "fiberglass" but close enough. they made really plastic cars starting with fiero (or should that be feasco?) (was riding with my buddy in high school going to school one winter morning when a brand new one slid out in front of us, (we were in his 79 t-bird) the hole front end was tore off that Fiero! firewall forward was GONE nad 30' away in ditch. the bumper on the t-bird was bent up and back about 2" and it cracked the parking light that was it!!! anyhow the lady driving it was OK we were late to school only to find out they closed classes while we were on our way!

also about 2 months back one of those GM minivans that are all plastic was hit on I-71. they slid across median and the van was brod sided by serria pick up. the van was literly fragmented like someone had a bomb inside it. there was 2 deaths kids that were in the back of the van & the seats were almost 50 feet away as they wee thrown out. My buddy runs the towing company up te street so I stopped to take a closer look, while state trooper pulled up with the couple who were driving the pickup. they were unhurt but somewhat emoitional by the ordeal.

moral of the story if you are going to hit a car hit a plastic one, if you own a car DON'T own a plastic one! as for tractors, heck I prefer metal but the fiberglass hood I have on mine is OK and has stood up well SOFAR.

Markm /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[To20Chris]

Well, I like a metal tractor, but having said that, I find that my (mostly) metal Kioti does in fact have a plastic dash - and I like it! There are also a few plastic handles, etc. Plastic is such a general term as to be almost meaningless. There are thermoplastics (that can be re-melted), thermosets (that will not re-melt), plastics with fillers of all kinds, different coatings - it's endless. Depending on the kind of abuse you're going to give it, either plastic or metal will have the advantage. And of course, the quality of the plastic will effect the durability, just as the quality of the metal, and its thickness and paint will effect it. With steel you'll have rust, dents, and fatigue cracks. With plastics, you'll eventually have UV damage, shrinking/deforming (if it's filled it will hold up better), and cracking.

I don't think my TO20 has a single plastic part on it, other than the bakelite distributor cap and rotor.

In the end, I guess I feel the same way about plastic on a tractor as I do about plastic on a house or a fence. You don't have to maintain a plastic part, but then again when it deteriorates, there's nothing you can do with it but throw it out.

 

[eee]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> moral of the story if you are going to hit a car hit a plastic one, if you own a car DON'T own a plastic one! </font> )</font>

Don't you think the minivan would have some steel re- inforcment under the plastic skin ? If it had a metal skin, the thickness of the metal would probably not have been any difference compared to the thickness of the plastic and not any stronger.
The size of the Sierra in comparrison to the size of the mini van would be the difference.
Just my humble opinion.

 

[slowrev]

Points have been made on here that plastics are great and can lay out in the sun for 100 years ok. How long has that plastic been made ? I don't think any of it has lain outside for 100 yrs in the Florida sun /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I know "simulated" testing ...

I lived in Tampa FL for 7 yrs and all plastic items lived a very rough life down there. White PVC pipe exposed to the sun was brittle in 6-12 months. The cheapo plastic lawn furniture, maybe lasts 2 yrs with most of the direct sunlight blocked before chalk and brittleness sets in. In more northern areas it will last for over twice as many yrs before becoming brittle. Plastic garbage cans even started chalking from the UV exposure...
The first year I was in FL I bought nice plastic patio furniture, 2 yrs later junk, so I started buying throwaway stuff.

Also the point was made about the plastic components not lasting 40-50 yrs for the purpose of restoring an old tractor. I personally think that is a moot point as the electronic controls very likely won't be available anyway, and once the tractor is old and the HYDRO tranny goes out it is not cost effective to repair if you can get parts. Too much plastic, aluminium, and electronics...

just my viewpoints on this subject..

Ben

 

[jinman]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I don't think my TO20 has a single plastic part on it, other than the bakelite distributor cap and rotor. )</font>

So you really, really like sitting on that cold/wet/hot metal seat instead of the nice padded one I have on my tractor? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Nature has blessed me with lots of natural padding, but I still like my vinyl and foam (plastics) seat cushion. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[eee]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> Points have been made on here that plastics are great and can lay out in the sun for 100 years ok. How long has that plastic been made ? I don't think any of it has lain outside for 100 yrs in the Florida sun I know "simulated" testing ... </font> )</font>

Let me say, I think it would outlast you or your tractor in " The Hot Florida sun" /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[To20Chris]

Actually, in the 25 years I've been using it, its never had a pad on the seat. In general, even though I don't have much padding on my own seat, I find the metal pan on a big spring to be quite comfortable. Truth be told, I find the TO20 to be more comfortable in most cases than the LK3054 with a padded adjustable seat! Mostly that's due to the bigger wheels and that big old spring under the seat. When I'm moving accross a field at a good clip, it doesn't toss me aroound nearly as much.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="red"> I find the metal pan on a big spring to be quite comfortable. Truth be told, I find the TO20 to be more comfortable in most cases than the LK3054 with a padded adjustable seat! </font>

Chris, I tend to agree with you that the old pan seats are very comfortable, the big springs soak up the shocks that the newer CUTS (even with suspension seats) simply cannot absorb. There seems to be a lot more travel in the old seat suspensions than in the new stuff. Overall, the new tractors are much easier to operate and I find them more practical to use for most tasks, but the old pan seats are greatly under-rated.

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( moot point as the electronic controls very likely won't be available anyway, and once the tractor is old and the HYDRO tranny goes out it is not cost effective to repair if you can get parts )</font>
I've wondered the same.. Just how many parts will be available for expensive electronics and hydro parts for early and late model hydros.. 50 years from now..

Soundguy