Plastic Barrel for Fuel

[F350Lawman]

OK I have a plastic barrel and pump that I want to starrt getting off-road diesel in for my tractor use. Someone on this forum mentioned that SOME barrels are not suitable and may leech some of the barrel chemicals into the fuel.

So far I have been able to find out on the internet that barrels are rated by the U.N. as to what they are approved to carry. The barrels I have all must be rated for somewhat hazardous chemicals because they had held cleaners/waxes, etc. for car washes. They are all THOROUGHLY cleaned out and have been used for the past 3 years for my wifes barrel racing.

I would think they would be sutable for diesel? I know gasoline is a solvent but diesel seems relatively mild?? These are the white heavy duty closed top barrels with the 2 screw in caps on either side of the lid. The pump screws perfectly in one.

Does anyone know what code I should look for on the barrels, they are LOADED with #s?????

 

[MossRoad]

I tried storing gasoline in a plastic barrel. 35 gallon size. It got hot in the garage and the barrel expanded so much that I was scared to take the lid out. I waited until early in the morning when it cooled, then drained and rinsed it. Won't do that again. Diesel may not have that problem.

Also, I have read several articles that plastic and static are a MAJOR concern. When fuel flows over the plastic, a static charge builds up. That is why you are supposed to only fill plastic containers on the ground, never in the bed of a pickup truck. Now we all seem to use plastic 5 gallon containers all the time without incident. So why would a plastic barrel be any different? I don't know. But there have been several instances of people filling plastic cans in pickup truck beds with plastic liners. A static charge built up and a spark ignited the can and the person /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif.

If I were using a plastic or metal barrel, I would ground it well. Sounds odd to ground plastic, but it needs to be done. How, I don't know. I would imagine several straps of copper connected to a wire with a clamp that you could ground. But, as a disclaimer, I wouldn't do it. I'd buy an approved storage container. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[F350Lawman]

I know what your talking about with the gas containers. I have identical gas and diesel containers (diff. colors) and the diesel container does not "bloat" from the heat or emit that cool vapor when you crack it open on a hot summers day. I don't think the static charge is an issue with diesel or at least not a very significant one.

I may be able to get my oil company to fill it right at the house anyway.

 

[MossRoad]

Something about gasoline that I love. It is sooo explosive! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

When we move to our larger property in a few years I plan on getting a 300 gallon or so tank on a stand with a pump for gasoline near(but not too near) the barn.

There was a thread here somewhere about the flash point of gasoline and diesel. I'd like to find it again.

 

[F350Lawman]

F-350, if you fight with Blue Cross long enough they will give you an account number that is not your SS #. I did this already.

Not me! Before I rewired my lawn tractor it had exposed wires underneath the dash with no cover, I would ALWAYS overflow the tank and be riding around smelling like gas. I always worried that I would burst into flames from the wires sparking and the gas residue. Problmewas the wires and tank are right between your legs when you're riding the tractor /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

It wouldn't have been pretty.

I am much happier dealing with my diesel truck or new diesel tractor, you can keep your 300 gallon potential gasoline fireworks show. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Phred]

Guys,

I use a plastic barrel for storage of diesel.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forumfiles/258093-gas%20can.jpg

Keep in mind that almost all the gas cans you buy at stores these days are plastic. So plastic is not a problem. The best material is the HDPE (high Density Polyethylene), often marked HDPE on the material. This may have a "2" recycle number.
You will not have any problems with this material.

I got my drums for ~$5 at a local gas station. They have a pile ready for sale. The ones I have used to be for soy sauce.

Static can be a problem for even metal drums. Use a ground strap. This is more critical for gas than diesel.

The other port on a plastic drum is a 2" butress rather than a 2" NPT. Your pump is NPT. You can buy a butress to NPT adapter that will convert that butress fiting to npt.
This would allow to use a vent/fill cap on the other port. The vent keeps the pressure from rising to high. Also handy for fill ups.

Fred

 

[F350Lawman]

Nice pic.


thanks for the info i am going to use it. Now I just have to locate the nearest place to go buy some off-road fuel.

What did you pay for that pump. It is much nicer than what I am going to use. I am only filling 6 gallons but it still will take me quite a few pumps. Either way it's better than my 5 gallon "spillomatic" jug /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif. I have taken to pouring it through a funnel so that my margin for error is greater.

 

[Phred]

Lawman,

I do not recall the pump cost. It was tractor supply item not very pricey. That plus a repair coupling, a few NPT pipe nipples, a filter, hose barb, and a bit of plastic hose. Pretty cheap when you consider that off road is 50% the cost of on-road. I can't understand why the pumps don't come with a taped npt fitting on the ouput but they don't. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Call an oil company. They usually have off road. I just drive up and pump diesel into the drum(s) and drive off. Use a skid and forks to unload as necessary.
Its pretty common to see guys pull up with drums in the back of pickups at this place. Only bad part is they are open during the week only.

Fred

 

[F350Lawman]

Thanks again!

Pretty cheap when you consider that off road is 50% the cost of on-road.

Not quite as good up here in the colder Northeast. They stick it to us with higher heating oil prices ( even in the summer) but it still is much cheaper. Probably $1.00 vs. $1.60 right now. Still significant though.

I also like having the extra 55 gallons of diesel around for the couple of times we have run low on heating oil and had to get a quickie delivery when the weather was REAL cold and we burned it REAL fast. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[Slamfire]

Half the price! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif The only break we get around here is some of the road taxes. They total $0.38/gallon. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[mrcaptainbob]

You're right about that static building up when fuel moves across plastic. The fuel hoses at the stations are all grounded for just that purpose. Fuel going through that length of hose builds up a pretty fair charge. Also the reason that fuel containers have the caution of keeping the nozzle in contact with the container while filling. The explosion came when the nozzle was lifted from an ungrounded container, as in the plastic bed liners. Just as the nozzle broke contact (or made contact) is when the static jumped.

 

[Egon]

I beleive the Marine Industry has some requirements for grounding when filling fuel tanks. Just how it works I don't know.

Static can be a problem.

Egon

 

[Phred]

Guys what I meant was about 50%, its not quite that good. But it is close since the oil company sells in volume and the local gas station closest to me does not.
Its less than a buck for a gallon of off road in bulk and varies from time to time in price.

Sorry about the confusion.

Fred

 

[rrw1238]

I have 2 , 55 gal blue plastic drums full of kerosene that have been setting for about 10 years. The drums seem to hold up pretty good.. I used to use kerosene for heating and now use natural gas. I wish I could figure out a use for the kerosene. Mabe mix it with cooking oil to make bio diesel. Any suggestions and/or recipies would be appreciated.

 

[Nelson]

Re: Plastic Barrel for Fuel (old Kerosene)

I am not an expert when it comes to diesel but I believe you should be able to run your K1 in a diesel tractor. I think diesel is like 'K2' compared to kerosene 'K1'. K1 isn't as thick. I used to use K1 in my outside tank for my oil furnice here in Maine because #2 heating oil (pretty much the same as diesel fuel without the road taxes) would jell up in extreme cold weather. We would use K1 in diesel skidders for the same reason when I worked in the woods years ago.

Make sure there is no water built up from condensation. It might also be a good idea to run it through a filter before you use it.

 

[Hambone]

NHRA(National Hot Rod Association) requires all plastic fuel cells to have a ground wire attached.

 

[rrw1238]

Re: Plastic Barrel for Fuel (old Kerosene)

Yes for sure I would run it through a good filtering system before useing it. It just seems to me that No. 2 diesel which I use has a much more lubrucating feel to it. . I remember about 50 years ago ( maybe a little longer) the first tractor driving job I ever had was a John Deere D with iron wheels. You started it by pulling on the flywheel. It had two tanks on it. One was for gasoline and the other was for Kerosene. We would start it on gasoline and then switch over to kerosene after it had warmed for a few minutes. It definatly had more power with the kerosene and you wouldnt believe how it pulled. The worst thing about it was the blisters you would get on your hands from pulling that flywheel to get it started. It had a compression release but we were told not to open it. It also had a magnito. I think that was because the old engine was pretty badly worn. The best thing about it is the memories of growing up in a mans world of the time. A couple of years later I was driveing a D 8 Cat dozer for a sand and gravel company and then a scraper for a road construction job . I even had a Union permit as an operating engineer. A kid sure would not get those opportunities today. I beleive I was born at about the best time a boy could ever have been born. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[RonR]

Old tractors and Kerosene

Your post inspired me; I partly restored a 1929 McCormick 22-36, which was wife's granddad 1st tractor! It was hand cranked to start on gasoline, warmed up, then switched over to kerosene. PLUS it had a third tank for WATER. The gas tank was maybe a two gallons, kerosene 15, and water 10. You controlled the mix via shut off valves under the tank. The water mix was to add power!

Obviously I never ran it on Kerosene as it was more hassle. The tractor sat outside from day one, and hadn't run since 1945. I got it and got it RUNNING in 1987. Didn't get as far as painting it, and eventually gave it away when we moved.

The thing was a brut! It weighed 7,000 pounds. The frame was one piece cast from the base of the radiator to the differential housing. Radiator (cast with copper core) weighed 250 pounds.

Steel wheels with lugs. I took the lugs off and mounted flat rubber on the rims.

A lot of work; a lot of fun to hear it run. It had a 455 cu in motor with 4.75 in bore and 6 inch stroke, all for 36 HP. Ran about 1500 RPM wide open and 800 at idle.

Enjoy!

Ron

 

[Soundguy]

Re: Plastic Barrel for Fuel (old Kerosene)

Some of the older fords like the 9n, 8n, and 2n, had models with 'alternate fuel' designation, and were then 9NAN, 2NAN, and 8nAN.. and were the same as you describe.. started on gas, then ran on kerosene.

Soundguy

 

[ljh2]

Re: Old tractors and Kerosene

Yeah that little bit of water in the mix really increases the compression since it expands so much as it converts to steam.