Plasma Cutters anyone?

[Tractors4u]

I am considering buying a plasma cutter? I have considered a oxy/acet torch also. Here are my pro's and con's of each.

Hypertherm 190C Plasma cutter
Pro's:
Compact
Easily Portable
Neat and clean cuts
Cuts more than just steel
No refills needed

Con's:
Limited cutting thickness
Expensive about $850 with tax


Torch
Pro's:
Inexpensive, about $175 plus the cost of the bottles
Cuts thicker materials
Good for loosening stuck parts

Cons:
Larger
Not very portable
Cuts aren't as clean
Needs refills from time to time


What do you guys think? Do you have any experience with a plasma cutter? I am taking one for a test drive in a couple of hours.

 

[EdKing]

While I already have a set of torches, I plan on getting a plasma cutter when I get my garage built. If I had to go with just one though, I would probably go with the torches, they are just more versitle. You can cut, weld, heat metal for bending and shaping, loosen or cut stuck bolts, etc.

 

[buppy69]

If you do a lot of cutting that needs to be very smooth, go with the plasma cutter. However, for my money I'd go with the torches. Tank fill ups aren't that much.

Eugene

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Since I own and operate both, let me strongly suggest you need to do more research relative to cost of operation.
Both are excellent for their purpose, but neither is a do all.
The cost of operating a Plazma cutter is equal to, if not a bit more than the cost of operating a torch. The electrode tips of a plazma cutter require regular replacement, and DRY compressed air isn't free.
That cost is somewhat offset by reduced grinding time post cut when you are going to weld the piece, but that cost reduction really doesn't come into play unless you are paying for labor.
Plazma is definitely a superior way to cut on thin metal. A torch definitely gives you more control when cutting free hand, just put your welding helmet on and try to find, let alone follow a chalk line on a piece you intend to cut.
Knowing how to cut with a torch will definitely help you tremendously when you begin cutting with Plazma, and as others have said, you can also weld and heat pain in the a$$ parts with a torch.
Then again, I worked a torch for 40 years before I ever heard of a Plazma cutter.

 

[cowboydoc]

I've got both and hands down the torch is much more versatile. I don't use the plasma one hardly at all and if it wasn't part of my mig welder I'd probably get rid of it.

 

[Tractors4u]

OK guys, thanks for your input, but during lunch I succumbed to my weakness, Tool Temptation. Yes I went ahead and bought Hypertherm 190C Plasma Cutter. I will use this cutter on home projects in the garage. It isn't going to be used in any kind of industrial applications so I am not that concerned with the consumables aspect of it. As for pure compressed air, this one has it's own on-board air compressor. I wish it would cut thicker material, but I will let my metal cutting horizontal bandsaw handle the larger stuff. I will let you know how it goes.

 

[JRP]

I think one important omission in the list is that plasma can cut stainless and aluminum very easy. My aluminum canopy was cut very quickly with plasma and it was a very clean cut.


JRPoux

 

[chim]

For stainless cutting, especially when it matters, don't overlook laser. Not as a "gotta have" tool, but have someone do it for you. There are fab shops around that will do cutting at very reasonable rates. I've used a local shop to make up custom stainless plates for odd combinations of knobs and switches, trim plates and the like. I can make up a drawing in ACAD, e-mail it to the shop, and get what's needed lickety-split. Last Winter we needed a plate that was about 18" X 24" that had several standard toggle light switches, turn-type switches with a keyed hole facing out, larger switches with the keyed hole facing in, others with a plain round hole. Our shop sent the blank stainless plate to them, and a couple days later it came back with an invoice for around $30. I couldn't have MARKED the holes for $30, plus everything was exactly where it needed to be. The cuts were so fine it looked like they were polished.

A couple weeks ago a subcontractor installing an overhead door on one of my projects cut two holes roughly 3" square in a finished drywall ceiling for slotted angle supports to pass through. He almost had to do it the way he did, but there was going to be no patch and touchup on the epoxy paint that would look good. Zipped off a sketch of a 6" square plate with the appropriate opening for the angle. Couple days later the plates showed up and we loosened the supports, slipped the trim plates on and fastened them up with adhesive. Real neat job, and cost next to nothing.

I really like to make stuff, but cutting 60 or 70 holes of different shapes and sizes in the right place in a sheet of stainless is NOT my idea of having a good time............chim

 

[wroughtn_harv]

<font color=blue>A torch definitely gives you more control when cutting free hand, just put your welding helmet on and try to find, let alone follow a chalk line on a piece you intend to cut.</font color=blue>

I set my hood to shade five and rock and roll. Half inch and thinner plate I use my plasma over my torch probably a hundred times to one. With the plasma I can grab a piece of quarter inch scrap and use it for a straight edge and just drag along it.

Another thing I like about the plasma over the torch is you can stop the plasma, hold it in place running, get reoriented, and then rock and roll on without doing damage to the cut. With a torch you'd better not try that.

I like the fact that I can grab a piece right after cutting it with the plasma if it's of any size at all and not have to use pliers because of the heat. I like just having a glove on the left hand and the plasma torch in the right with no glove and ultimate control.

The downside of the plasma is the cost of consumables. They aren't cheap and one spot of rust or a misstep with the torch and you're eaten fifteen bucks and it was calorie free.

There's a shop in Tatum, New Mexico that specializes in silhouttes cut from steel. They are great not just because they are silhouettes but because there's a touch of humor that just grabs you in every piece. It's run by three generations of the same family.

We stop by there just about every time we go through on our way to visit family in Arizona. One time I asked the middle generation, about my age, why they still used the oxy acetylene instead of plasma. He said the oxy acetylene was cleaner and they had more control.

I thought he'd been inhaling intentionally or inadvertantly fumes that had affected his thinking process. Then he showed me how they did it. It was totally amazing to me how they could get the cleaness of cut and detail almost like waterjet or plasma with a Victor 9000C just like the one sitting out in my truck.

So an oxy acetylene torch in the right hands can be as good if not better than a plasma. But if you're a hacker like me, plasma is the dog for that hunt.

 

[CSAW]

Has anyone tried the Henrob torch? This thing is amazing. It cuts thick steel and can weld a beer can. I have seen it demonstrated at several antique car shows. It also cuts and welds sheet metal without warping it. I believe this would do all the things that you want to do. I also realize the person demonstrating has a gazillion hours of experience. The web site does not do justice to the in person demonstrations. I have no affiliation with this product, but was amazed with it and want one.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.cut-like-plasma.com/>http://www.cut-like-plasma.com/</A>

 

[pajoube]

Chuck, I went to the site and looked this over, very impresive, thanks for sharing. Hope there will be others who have used this unit and can give us more insight.
PJ

 

[Rockyroad]

wroghtrn havv-

I really enjoy reading your posts. VERY informative, particularly the posts on how to bend stuff.

One question: In your last post on this thread you mention someone that showed you how they cut nice and clean with a regular torch. How did they do it? Any particular secret you could share with the rest of us?

 

[Rockyroad]

wroughtn harv-

I apologize for mangling your name on my last post. Wasn't trying to be funny. Just that I cut about half an inch off middle finger in log splitter and the nail that grew back is more like a claw than a nail. Raises hob on the keyboard sometimes if I am not careful, which is what happened.

I saw on one of your photos that you did something like that to one of your thumbs, if memory serves.

Your photos are great since we can see exactly what you are talking about when you describe one of your bending rigs.

Any secrets on how to make clean torch cuts would be appreciated.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Got one. It's a kewl tool. If it's a kewl tool I've either got it or are conniving to get it.

Actually I saw Jesse James on the Discovery Channel using one and wanted to know what kind of torch it was. Then I noticed one in Rob Gunter's tool kit and had to ask. I'm very impressed with it. I haven't used it to it's full potential nor have I seen a professional use it. But if a clutz like me can make it do miracles than anyone can.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

<font color=blue>Any secrets on how to make clean torch cuts would be appreciated.</font color=blue>

The first and most important thing about using a cutting torch is understanding that there is no magic. It doesn't take talent or superior intelligence to master the monster.

It's all about heat and rate of travel. If there is a talent to it the only thing I can think that would be would be the ability to concentrate. You can hook up a buggo which is self propelled mechanism for welding or cutting and set it. It will cut perfect cuts. The machine doensn't wonder if the neighbor's wife wears underwear under those jeans or if the company is going to lay one off this week or the next.

So if we know that the magic in cutting is purely and teetotally set up and then the proper rate of travel it only leaves practice for us work on. Practice works real well. Especially when we do it repeatedly and often.

What happens when you're using a cutting torch is the blue part of the flame turns the steel red. Then when you hit the oxygen lever it causes the red to burn through the remaining steel and you have the start of the cut. What you're looking for is that point where the steel turns orange and wet looking and the oxygen hits it. So when you've got the right heat, the wet orange shows up, and you've got the right rate of travel, the oxygen is hitting the leading edge of the orange just as it shows up, you have a perfect cut.

If you're too slow the wet orange becomes a clean clear through mess as you're melting all the steel and it rewelds or recombines to itself as it cools just before landing on your boots and teaching you how to really do a jig.

If you're moving too fast the oxygen doesn't have the time to push the wet orange through the steel so it comes bubbling back up just to listen to see if you're a decent cusser or merely a repeataholic.

For me it's sorta like driving. You're concentrating not so much on what's under your wheels as much as what's coming up. So you get the heat and rate of travel and then you concentrate on the path you're going to take.

There's a lot more to it than that of course. You need clean tips. A good fitter will wear out cutting tips from cleaning them long before they burn out. You need to find that space that's perfect for that flame and that material. If you're too close you're gonna have problems. If you're too far away you're gonna have another set of problems.

But the biggest problem I see with cutting for most folks is again like driving. I see them worrying about what's under their wheels when they're doing thirty five miles an hour.

Practice repeatedly and often. And concentrate on the fact that there's only about three things going on here. And none of it's magic.

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

I am far below Wroughtn_Harv's league as a fabricator, but the Henrob still makes me look pretty good as a cutter. It is easy to cut very smooth mild steel cuts in pretty big stuff.
The beer can welding part is a lot tougher. I have only tried it a little with thin stuff. I have had good luck with some brazes and braze welds on medium weight projects, but fortunately I don't have to rely on any of my junctions of really thin stuff. It is a neat tool, and easier to use than traditional welding/brazing torches. Maybe if I work at it long enough I can get good enough to demo it at a county fair somewhere.

 

[micromike]

The henrob looks fantastic. Thanks for sharing! I've never seen one or even heard about them but just looking at the website, I've GOT to have one. The versatility in incredible.

Mike

 

[centex]

This looks a lot like a torch that all of the street rod magazines were raving about 20 year ago. I wanted one but they cost about $450 back then. Do you know what they are going for now. I did not see prices on their web site.

 

[micromike]

Prices are available on the site. About $349 with video and I believe $329 without.

Mike

 

[pajoube]

How did they come up with the name Plasma cutter?
PJ