patching a paved road?

st1c2 · May 26, 2005

ok maybe this is not the correct forum to ask a question like this but most of you guys seem to be like myself, "if some other guy can do it, so can i". so here is my problem. i live on a private road. it has been paved by the government in the past, but about 15 years ago they figured it out and that was it for free paving. now it is deteriorating......pot holes over night it seems like. concrete only lasts 6 months +-. i am ready to start cutting the pavement with my chop saw and patching it with HOT pavement i can purchase close by.
WILL THIS WORK or do we need to have it paved by a contractor? the road is about $25000.00 long
(more than 1/2 mile).
please let me know if any of you have attempted some thing like this.

Egon · May 27, 2005

Patching versus repaving is decision that can only be made by a site evaluation that would include proper drainage etc.

If few patches are required the hot pavement with a little roller will work well. Make sure the patch has been well dug out and the surrounding pavement is hard and solid. Coat the edges with a " Tack Coat " to get bonding.

When the patches start to be the road perhaps it's time to think of other solutions.

One may be to tear up the old pavement, pulverize it, mix with a bituemenous based oil suitable for your area and lay it back down while packing it. Any road imperfections can also be fixed while doing this.

Handling hot asphalt for patches ain't no fun.

Egon

Highbeam · May 27, 2005

Be sure to throw a piece of plywood in your truck before they drop the hotmix into the bed.

Cut the patch hole square and oversized, tack is good but not required. Then shovel in the hotmix. The roller or compactor need to ride on the good asphalt so that the patch won't be a hump or a dip. I have seen plate compactors used which can be rented. I would recommend the hot tar on top to seal the joint whether you used tack on the sides or not. The materials are pretty cheap and even a crumby job is better than a pothole so give it a try.

When our roads in town get to be too patchy, we have them chip seal the surface. A light tar is distributed across the entire road and then a smallish (1/2 or so) clean crushed rock is spread on top of it. The tar seals the road and the rock provides traction. Lots of roads are built like this cheaply here in the NW. The roads look really good after this treatment.

Of course the first thing to do is find out why you have potholes and deal with that.

froggy · May 27, 2005

Is there a good place on the web that discusses road building? I have looked, but cannot seem to find one.

st1c2 · May 27, 2005

Thanks for the reply Egon. I heard about the material called "tack" earlier last week. So far no company in Nashville will sell it to me!! They all say i need to be bonded (good-ol' epa i guess). Maybe someone can suggest an alternate material other than tack.
I also have made provisions to handle the hot mix, i built an insulated box for my trailer. I hope it works.
steve

st1c2 · May 27, 2005

Thanks for the reply Hibeam. I have started cutting the holes out not necessarily square but straight edged and 4" deep. i can't buy "tack" i'm not bonded. but it seems that tar would work fine to me. So off i am next week to see if i can purchase "tar"???
As for the reason for the holes, i researched "asphalt" and found a life cycle analysis curve. Imagine this, the curve indicated asphalt will start to fail between 15 and 20 years of age. so it looks like my work will be cut-out (so to speak) for me over the next few years.
steve

st1c2 · May 27, 2005

Froggy i have not looked for a road building site.
For the road i built on my property i just started down the hillside digging out the high side with my backhoe and pilling it on the low side. This worked good but MAN was it ever scarry. The road is holding really well. I packed it as i moved the material to the low side, every bucket full. The hill is VERY steep, high side cut is minimum 42" and the road is only about 7' wide.
I am confident i could drive my fullsize truck on it.
good luck
steve

Soundguy · May 28, 2005

I'll just address the topic of a durable asphalt patch that's easy to do.. and should last.

First.. wait till it's dry.. then, clean the edges on the hole up. if its a sloping hole.. use a chissle and hammer.. or shovel edged to square the sides up.. you don't want a thin patch that taper out to nothing.. that will scab and lift in no time..... sweep the hole out.. now.. if its way deep, and you don't want to waste asphalt.. dig some of the crushed rock out.. and then refill with more of the same crushed rock.. tamp down very good. Find some bituminous material.. asphalt paint, roofing tar, driveway patch/sealer.. anything like that should work.. the key is to get a prime or tack coat. That helps your asphalt bond to the crushed rock. If it's not too deep.. just prime and add asphalt and tamp..

Now.. after primed.. add your hot or cold patch asphalt.. loop in ( rake works fine ) and then tamp the heck out of it. try to make it match the existing contour to make it feel better when driving.

Soundguy

arkydog · May 28, 2005

If you dont have axcess to a roller, would a 3/4" piece of plywood and drive over it with a 1/2 ton truck do the trick?

Soundguy · May 29, 2005

Not anywhere close... A truck tire is already at a low ground pressure value.. in other words.. low pounds per square inch. Take the weight of the truck, divide it between the 4 or 6 tires square inches of contact area... probably not much dead compaction weight to speak of. The plywood further difusses that.

Better would be a tamp tool.. heavy iron handle with a 3" or 4" square end on one side for packing around pipes.. or tamping asphalt. I've seen 6" square ones too. Usually has a sharp pic on the other end. Makes a good tamp for compacting asphalt, or picking apart asphalt.

Soundguy

ScottAR · May 29, 2005

I used my F350 for a roller last time I patched a pothole but it was a small one on a little used part of a parking lot. Seemed to work well, but for a road or often used driveway I'd want a little roller.

togoffrd · May 30, 2005

As others has said, it should be no problem for you to do this yourself. You didn't say how many holes your patching, or square footage, but if there are large holes like 3x3 or larger, I would rent a plate compactor, the kind with the water tank on it to keep the asphalt from sticking to it. You will still need the hand tamper for smaller holes. The better compaction you get, the longer your patch will last.
Put the hot mix in lifts, 1.5 - 2 inches should be about the maximum to do by hand, and it would be best to use some kind of tack on the edges, maybe some of that do it yourself kind of seal coat or roofing sealer from Home Depot? Put the mix in, rake it smooth and level, compact. If you watch how much compaction you get in the first lifts, you can judge how much you'll need to have raked up above the surface to get a smooth finished surface. There will some trail and error, it's pretty forgiving stuff. A propane weed burner could be of some value too.
Also a coat of diesel on the shovels and lutes will keep them from caking up with asphalt, and will help clean them up when your done.
Try it yourself before you hire it out, a ton of mix and renting a compactor, will probably cost about the same as a contractor will get for one hole.

Soundguy · May 31, 2005

I agree. And for lots of small holes.. I'd go with cold pre-baged mix.. otherwise the hot stuff will cool down by the time you get to all the holes.

The tack is very important for getting the patches to stick..as well as a cleaned out hole.

Soundguy

Highbeam · May 31, 2005

"...i researched "asphalt" and found a life cycle analysis curve. Imagine this, the curve indicated asphalt will start to fail between 15 and 20 years of age."

The life cycle of asphalt depends on planty of things other than years. The thickness and loading of the asphalt are the big ones assuming you put it in right.

Find an actual petroleum based product like a coal tar driveway sealer for tack. It's purpose is to glue the old asphalt to the new and prevent water from getting down between. After you're done with the patch, go back over the joint and put more tar down, sprinkle sand on top so that it won't be sticky in the heat of the summer. The true tack is termed "coal tar pitch emulsion" by our state DOT.

You can rent the plate compactors from rental yards. They are about the size of a lawnmower and not hard to handle. The benefit with this or a roller is that you can ride on the existing asphalt to be sure that the patch is level with it.

I should have clarified that the squareness of the hole is more important in the vertical direction.

Asphalt will stay hot for a long time. In WA it is delivered in non-insulated dump trucks with a minimum temperature of application near 180. You can reheat with a weed burner, most of the asphalt spreader machines use propane burners to bring it up to temp.

Diesel on your tools, diesel on your box, and diesel on your shoes if you need to walk on it.

Egon · May 31, 2005

Ah yes the clean up. The asphalt has a tendency to jump up and stick to any item of equipment or clothing that comes near it. Coveralls help. Gloves are essential. The shoes get to live outside for awhile till either they wear out or the asphalt wears off.

Just another note:
You can burn your feet walking on hot asphalt and the rakes used are not your garden type. A square nosed shovel also comes in handy. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Raking developes character!!

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

st1c2 · May 31, 2005

thank you guys very much! you gave me some very good pointers!
now i will be starting next week and i will post the results.
i am not sure if i appreciate the votes of confidence or if i will be "saying misery loves company" next week.
thanks
steve

Soundguy · Jun 1, 2005

( "...i researched "asphalt" and found a life cycle analysis curve. Imagine this, the curve indicated asphalt will start to fail between 15 and 20 years of age."

The life cycle of asphalt depends on planty of things other than years. The thickness and loading of the asphalt are the big ones assuming you put it in right.
)

That quote dind't come from my post.. must have found it elsewhere.

( The thickness and loading of the asphalt are the big ones assuming you put it in right.
)

Right under loading, amount of traffic would be next in my opinion. Types of tires being driven on it will make a huge difference, as well as spilled petro products, and type of surface coarse used. Prep of the shoulders will also influence life. Nothing like an eroded shoulder to kill an otherwise good road.

( Find an actual petroleum based product like a coal tar driveway sealer for tack )

Probably less confusing to ask for a 'bituminous' based product, and not simple a petro based product... all things being equal, and one day some well meaning person will be out there using used motor oil for tack, thinking they are doing something good.

( The true tack is termed "coal tar pitch emulsion" by our state DOT )

Here in florida, Special MS ( asphault water emulsion ) is a favorite.

( Asphalt will stay hot for a long time. In WA it is delivered in non-insulated dump trucks with a minimum temperature of application near 180. You can reheat with a weed burner, most of the asphalt spreader machines use propane burners to bring it up to temp.
)

At the plant you can see 450-300 degrees when loade don the truck.. and like you say.. works well at 180....but sounds like this guy is not buying 16-18 yards tons of asphalt.. but rather buying a yard.. or so.. something small like that is going to cool down reaaaal fast.. especiall if he is driving all over a road making small patches in an non-heated truck..

For small patches.. I like the cold patch... unless there's a road or driveway going in on an ajoining road/job.. etc.

Soundguy

Egon · Jun 1, 2005

Asphalt starts to deteriorate as soon as it leaves the plant. Just an exponetial curve as to degree.

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

crashz · Jun 6, 2005

A little trick from an old paving guy, is to pinch the edges. Taking your compacting device and ride it along the old pavement, only compacting about an inch of the patch right at the edges. Do this first, before you compact the rest of the patch. This marries the new pavement to the old, with no edge, making a smooth transition and won't spill any blacktop over the cut edges of the patch. It also helps seal the edges from water damage.

Nasty135 · Jun 6, 2005

st 1c2, Well with out knowing the actual amount of patch size, I assume it might be quite size-able (talking about pick-up truck load of blacktop)

I have had success by choping out old hole with a large chisel squarely then packing base (my tamper is a 5' 6x6 pressure treated post with handles on the sides)then packing in the cold patch a little at a time tamping pretty heavily about at inch or so at a time, when sealed almost indetectable /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

May have to rent one of those light roller tampers with a vibrating pulse that quadrupples the weight value(can be turned on or off as needed)

Good Luck!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Not going to be fun