Overloaded, need insite on tractor purchase

[Weedy Fields]

Bought approx. 50 acres. Will be building a house on it. Land has approx 35 in tillage (corn) and remaining in hardwoods. House is going into one of the fields. Approx 10 acre cornfield.

1st thing is to have a driveway put in. Driveway will be approx 2200 ft long and change in elevation up approx 100ft in maybe 600ft of total distance. Driveway is going to be done by a hired excavator. The long term plan is to plant approx 5-6 acres that surround the house to native grasses and forbs. Plant corners and edges with conifers to block wind for house and other trees/bushes for wildlife habitat. Am going to use low mow lawn around house. Small garden. I already have a JD riding mower for yard and a Troybuilt tiller for garden.

I'm going to need a tractor I'm thinking.

1st thing I'm going to need to do is prepare ground along driveway for planting of cover crop. Maybe a 50 ft swath on either side of the drive where the excavator will have the land torn up from driveway installation. Some sections of this will be slopped pretty decently so I want to get it prepped and plant so to avoid any erosion. I can leave the majority of the length as its relatively flat. This land is somewhat rocky also. Has areas with rocks that are approx 1 ft on dia. Again, this land has been growing corn as of this past summer. Corn has been cut but the stubble is still there. So will I need a spring tooth cultivator and a disc harrow to get it ready?

So after I get the sides of the drive done I'll use the tractor to prepare corn field for planting in spring of 2016. I have been advised by seed supplier to disc field for one season approx every 3 weeks during growing season to deplete seed bank and allow any unwanted herbicide to dissipate. So again I'm using the disc/cultivator.

I don't plan on plowing the driveway. Right now I have a 800 ft driveway that I have a service do. It costs approx $500 a year for them to do it. So maybe it'll cost me $1000 at the new place. I don't know if its worth the time and cost of equipment.

I do burn wood and would plan on making/getting a trailer to haul firewood.

I do plan on making/mowing trails on land. Then I'll want to get a Flail mower. May also need this in 1st couple of years after planting of native grasses to knock down annual weeds while native grasses/forbs get roots established.

The larger 20 some acre field will be leased out to a local farmer for the 2015 season. After that it will be planted partially in native grasses/forbs and remainder in trees. Lots more work for the tractor.

My thought are this for the tractor. I'm sure I'll end up using it alot more than I think. I think I'm going to need the cultivator and the disc harrow right away. Maybe a front end loader. Don't know if I'm going to need a back hoe, but I'm sure I could use one if I had one.

I can see spending 20K. I'm pretty mechanically competent. I'm a retired Tool and Die maker so I know my way around wrench. New would be nice but not necessary. I don't have a problem will used. But I don't want used up. I'm thinking 30-40hp, 4 wheel drive, don't need hydrostatic. I have been driving manual shift stuff for 40 years.

Within approx 1/2 drive there are Deere, Kubota and other dealers.

Any words of wisdom, this all new to me, been doing a lot of reading and I'm overloaded. Help me focused.

Thanks

 

[motownbrowne]

First off, welcome aboard.

I recommend a 40+ HP 4wd tractor with loader at least. At that size you increase loader capacity quite a bit over the next size down. It's gonna be though to accomplish with your budget, but if you stretch it a little you can get there. For me, having the front end loader is now something I wouldn't want to live without, especially with pallet forks. Regarding the planting and implements, there's tons of disc harrows on craigslist for cheap. Personally I'd buy a rototiller before a disc and drag harrow, but that's me. Also, leaving that field fallow for a whole season seems excessive. Maybe a few fillings before cover cropping, but not all year.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[Sprinklerman]

Loader is a must . It will save your back plain and simple . Plus its fun to play with

 

[Coyote machine]

Kioti DK-40 or larger, with loader and HST. You won't be disappointed in going to a hydrostatic trans from shifting. I run their largest backhoe, digs to 8.5' down. $20K is going to be difficult to get what you want/need. More in range of $25-30 with a hoe and loader. Spend what is needed and you won't need to upgrade to higher HP/ loader capacity for many years. The name isn't as familiar as some others, but they make excellent tractors with features you'll pay more for in other brands.

 

[nybirdman]

You are on the right track.35-40hp,4wd and fel 3,000+lbs.for sure.I would have second thoughts on the back-hoe.Adds a big expense to the purchase for something that "may"not get a lot of use after the first year.
Implements;rear blade,box blade,I prefer a tiller over disc on tractors this size.As long as you have a tractor you may as well do your own snow removal.Rear blade and maybe down the road a front blade.
I like HST tractors myself but we do have a L3000DT(Kubota) which is gear and it's a work horse.
Do all the reading you can on this site,lots of good free information.

 

[DABSGT]

You are on the right track.35-40hp,4wd and fel 3,000+lbs.for sure.I would have second thoughts on the back-hoe.Adds a big expense to the purchase for something that "may"not get a lot of use after the first year. Implements;rear blade,box blade,I prefer a tiller over disc on tractors this size.As long as you have a tractor you may as well do your own snow removal.Rear blade and maybe down the road a front blade. I like HST tractors myself but we do have a L3000DT(Kubota) which is gear and it's a work horse. Do all the reading you can on this site,lots of good free information.

I agree with nybirdman, I like a HST tractor, after years of shifting I still will use an older tractor but as I get older the Hydrostatic trans is nice. Also agree you can clean your own snow the $1,000 a year you pay can go into your tractor, I could have had someone plow me out for years with what I put into my tractor but why pay someone to have all that fun. Hope you find what you are looking for you won't regret a FEL. And welcome to TBN.

Sent from my iPad using TractorByNet

 

[jeff9366]

40-hp minimum (50-hp better) and minimum 4,000 lbs. tractor weight before FEL. 4-WD for certain.

With 4,000 lbs. tractor you will be able to pull seven foot implements.

You will need a Disc Harrow with at least 24" diameter pans in order to chop stubble and till in one pass.

It is rare to see a Flail Mower on a farm. Rotary Cutters (Bush Hogs) do the same work and are much less complex.

You can transport firewood in the FEL bucket.

I recommend budgeting for a Utility Vehicle and all terrain trailer to partner with your tractor.

Consider if a <$400 Bucket Spade will meet your initial needs, rather than a $8,000 Backhoe.

A $400 Ratchet Rake is useful for trail creation and light grading.

Keep an open mind on HST transmissions. Max torque when starting with an implement is a great thing.

There is a lot of used equipment out there. Good luck.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.

 

[Threepoint]

Welcome to TBN! Sounds like you'll have a lifetime of projects for your tractor at your new place. Very exciting.

I'm assuming your driveway will be crushed stone rather than paved. You say you're thinking of hiring out the snow plowing, but if it's stone, you're also going to need to maintain the surface throughout the year. 2200 feet is a whole lot of driveway. A rise of 100 feet over a 600 foot run is a 17 percent grade, so you're looking at some occasional washout in heavy rain. I think you'll quickly decide you need a box blade. To pull an 84" medium-duty BB full of material up a grade that steep is going to require good traction, a fair amount of hp, and low gear. I myself wouldn't go lower than 45 hp, and given your other uses, I'd go 50 or 60 if you can. I'd for sure add a loader; you'll be kicking yourself later if you don't, guaranteed! Your $20 K budget strikes me as pretty light if you're looking for new.

As Jeff says, buy enough tractor. You have the property and projects to justify it, and you don't want to be saying woulda coulda shoulda a year from now with such an important piece of equipment.

BTW, for a full season of snow plowing, I'd say $1000 would be a very low estimate for that driveway in your neck of the woods, unless other neighbors are on it as well and you're able to share the cost. If you have the time, doing your own plowing would pay for a very nice 84" rear blade in one season.

 

[Olympus]

Brand wars aside, you will DEFINITELY want 4wd and a front bucket. Those two things will prove to be worth their weight in gold.

Best advice is to spend as much time researching and test driving as possible. Research all the dealers in your area and don't forget there are other great brands aside from the "big names". Find a reputable dealer that treats you well and has a solid reputation.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Once you have deciphered all the first TBN info in this thread, decide what is the furthest that you would consider driving to look at a machine, new or used. Once you have made that decision, go to every single tractor dealer within that range. Not for pricing purposes,(although you can do that also) but to actually look at, feel, set in the seat, try to get a feel for the different tractors. They are all just a bit different and some or one may feel better than another to you. If you look at the similar sizes , they all have about the same capabilities. Yes some are a little less or more than another, but until a person is using it to make a living, they all will do about the same thing in the same time frame more or less.

I personally would be looking in the 50hp range for what it sounds like your needs will be.

Good luck

 

[Olympus]

Almost forgot, get bigger than what you think you'll need. It's better to have room to grow into of you can afford it.

 

[2458n]

All good info. I have small Kubota 245DT Front loader and backhoe and just about everything else I have gathered over 32 years of owning it. I bought this used at a auction along with all the implements over the years. For the farm I have a 2-60 White field boss with a front end loader and a Arps 730 3pt backhoe. IT is set up for cat1 or 2 hitch. 10 foot Bush hog. Tillers for each tractor. I do not have 20 thousand in all my toys so it can be done by going used. Post hole diggers ,plows ,booms and box blades are always available. You just need to get what you need now and the rest is just something that comes along. Plow your own drive it provides a good deal of satisfaction. You probably do not need the backhoe as they can be pretty pricey even used.

 

[Weedy Fields]

Thanks for all words of wisdom. My wife is concerned with the driveway length and slope. I think if I use the I can plow it myself angle I'll be able to spend more and have less days in dog house.
Reasoning for flail mower was I'll need to mow about 5-6" above ground so as to cut only annual weeds not developing grasses/forbs. Also I'm under the impression that a flail mower is relatively safer, less rocks/debris flying about.
Concern with tiller is rocks in ground. wouldn't cultivator be easier to go thru, do a rock hunt and removal run then disc.
As far as a 1 year period to work land to deplete weed bank and break down unwanted herbicides. This comes from seed suppliers. Atrazine and other chemicals are meant to prevent growth of what I'm looking to plant. I understand some of these chemicals take awhile to break down.
I'm thinking that the back hoe is one of those implements that once you get one you'll wonder what you did with out one. But tough to justify 8K in the beginning with all the other stuff I'll need.

So about 40hp min, 4wd,

I actually enjoy manual trans, like shifting, using gears, My JD riding tractor is hydro and I have a 70's vintage Wheelhorse that is manual shift, I use it with a trailer for hauling rocks, manure, dirt and wood. Does alot more "work" than the JD. I put chains on the back it goes anywhere I want right now. I start out if load is heavy in low range. Also if it the wheels spin on slippery surfaces I can jump out and push it while its spinning to get it going. Can't do that on the hydrostatic. What is the advantage to hydrostatic? Any extra cost on hydrostatic?

Cultivator and disc or rototiller?,

Front end loader for plowing snow? or Plow on front or blade on back?

Flail mower

Am I missing anything?

I'm going to have to start visiting dealers to see whats out there new and "lightly" used in tractors.
I assume that all of these will be cat I hitch so if I find any implements that fit that then I'm good to go?


Thanks again for all the incite from all of your collected years of wisdom.

 

[oosik]

I think you are heading in the correct direction except for one item. The backhoe implement. I've got 80 acres, mile long gravel driveway and absolutely no need for the backhoe. Its a very expensive attachment and I do believe after a year or so it will just sit - collecting rust. I would go without the backhoe attachment for the first year and then evaluate that need again. You will be able to find so many other uses for that much money.

 

[arnoldziffel]

Taking your time and being open to a used machine I think you can hit the very high end of your budget. (If you eliminate the back hoe).

Earlier this year I was tempted by a Kioti DK40 machine. About 25 hours on the clock and only $17,000. This was at a dealer that resells almost new bank repos.

Scan the market carefully and patiently and the right tractor will present itself.

 

[jeff9366]

1) Reasoning for flail mower was I'll need to mow about 5-6" above ground so as to cut only annual weeds not developing grasses/forbs. Also I'm under the impression that a flail mower is relatively safer, less rocks/debris flying about.

2) Concern with tiller is rocks in ground. wouldn't cultivator be easier to go thru, do a rock hunt and removal run then disc.

3) I'm thinking that the back hoe is one of those implements that once you get one you'll wonder what you did with out one. But tough to justify 8K in the beginning with all the other stuff I'll need.

4) So about 40hp min, 4wd, I assume that these will be cat I hitch so if I find any implements that fit that then I'm good to go?

5) I actually enjoy manual trans, like shifting, using gears. What is the advantage to hydrostatic? Any extra cost on hydrostatic?

6) Front end loader for plowing snow? or Plow on front or blade on back?

7) Am I missing anything?

8) I'm going to have to start visiting dealers to see whats out there new and "lightly" used in tractors.

1) Rotary Cutters are adjustable to 12" mowing height. Probably outsell Flail Mowers for farm use 300 to 1. New Rotary Cutters have shielded debris exhausts. Easier/cheaper to replace two steel blades than 400 carbide cutters.

Flail mowers are mostly sold for government use along busy highways, school grounds and parks.

2) Define what a 'cultivator' is to you. To me, cultivators are row crop implements.

The discs on a Disc Harrow are also called pans and wheels. They rotate on axles. To a certain extent discs/pans/wheels roll over rocks.

Tillers mix soil. A Disc Harrow is one form of tiller, designed for tilling in long rows. Along with plows, one of the implements tractors were designed to pull. Today, in the age of no-till agriculture, using Roundup and GMO seed, not many plows are sold. But market for Disc Harrows remains strong. In the north (Wisconsin) I understand from reading here, plowing is still somewhat practiced.

A second kind of tiller is PTO powered Roto-tiller. Forward rotating Roto-tillers are preferred for rocky soil.

I hate making greasy, awkward PTO shaft connection to tractor PTO splines. All PTO implements, not just Roto-tillers.

Inure yourself to forever picking rocks larger than 4". Bucket attachment called a Ratchet Rake is good at leveraging out semi-buried rocks.

3) Key part of a tractor is the Three Point Hitch. When Backhoe is on tractor Three Point Hitch is unavailable. With a Bucket Spade attached to bucket, Three Point Hitch is available-----most often I have my Box Blade on 3-Pt, paired with the Bucket Spade. When the Backhoe is off, you must store it in the garage, not outside. (My tractor lives in humidity controlled garage. Cars live in the driveway.)

Tractor 'newBs' often have, to me, irrational penchants for Backhoes, for loading tires and for buying tractors and ground contact implements too light.

4) Think tractor WEIGHT as much as horsepower. Forty horsepower minimum. 4-WD + FEL for sure. Category 1 Three Point Hitch comes on tractors 20-45 horsepower. Category 2 overlaps, 40-100 horsepower. Implements come in Cat 1, Cat 1/2 and Cat 2. 'Up' adaptors readily available for 3 X $2.

5.) Most relatively new forty horsepower tractors will have HST. Begining at fifty horsepower, some have gears. I would argue HST requires repair less frequently than clutch. On hills, HST is the only safe choice.

LINK T0 18,400 "HST Vs Gear" threads:
https://www.google.com/search?q=HST...X&ei=3wygVLGvA4azggSb2oHICQ&ved=0CCsQrQIoBDAA

6) Snow is a four letter word in Florida.

7) No mention of a moldboard plow, so I assume you are committed to no-till? Heavy Disc Harrows are used for soil prep in no-till. Site vegetable garden at higher elevation than corn.

Like cars, new tractors evolve, becoming easier and safer to operate every succeeding year.

8) Try to attend an AG EXPO in your area where all tractor brands and almost all implement brands will be displayed and explained by factory reps.

EXPO LINK: https://www.google.com/search?clien...isconsin+ag+show&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&gws_rd=ssl


Here are more implements to consider:

http://www.lsuagcenter.com/NR/rdonl...45263BDD8/11557/pub2917tractorimplements1.pdf


Learn to search T-B-N's 4,000,000 thread archive using Google.

 

[nybirdman]

Another must have item for your tractor;extendable end links for the three point or some type of quick change(Pat's is one).These are invaluable when changing implements.
Depending on your snow fall average,you may get by with a rear blade and FEL,down the road you can always add a front blade.Less than 100in./year this is a good combo,more than that you may be looking at a snow blower.
Rear mounted brush-hogs can be set higher if needed;I do this on my clover and switchgrass plots.

 

[Threepoint]

[snip]

Here are other implements to consider:

http://www.lsuagcenter.com/NR/rdonl...45263BDD8/11557/pub2917tractorimplements1.pdf

Well done publication from LSU. :thumbsup:

 

[dieselcrawler]

You arnt stuck with local tractors... window shop on tractorhouse.com, finding a good deal on the other side of the country can yeild a lower hour or higher horsepower mechine for less money even when you factor in shipping. My boss has done this, his L4310 came from upstate NY and the F250 pick up from Georiga, both shipped to northern WV for about $500 each.

Tractordata.com is also a good place to check stats of a certin model if you are compairing HP and such.

My recommendations are Kubota M5700 or even a JD 2355 (one on tractorhouse right now, $16500, showing 1500 hrs, 67hp, loader, 4x4). You might do well with something as small as the L4310 we have at work. Visit dealers to check out ones you like, but having one shipped in may be worth doing.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

You arnt stuck with local tractors... window shop on tractorhouse.com, finding a good deal on the other side of the country can yeild a lower hour or higher horsepower mechine for less money even when you factor in shipping. My boss has done this, his L4310 came from upstate NY and the F250 pick up from Georiga, both shipped to northern WV for about $500.

Tractordata.com is also a good place to check stats of a certin model if you are compairing HP and such.

My recommendations are Kubota M5700 or even a JD 2355 (one one tractorhouse right now, $16500, 1500 hrs, 67hp, loader, 4x4). You might do well with something as small as the L4310 we have at work. Visit dealers to check out ones you like, but having one shipped in may be worth doing.

While this is true, a lot if not most people are not comfortable purchasing a used machine that they have not seen in person. I have done this myself, even had my brother there looking at the machine and made the purchase. That was a mistake is all I can say about that transaction.