Overloaded loaded tires.

[Rowski]

I went to check my loaded rear tires tonight for air pressure. This is actually the first time checking the rears, I have checked my fronts quite a bit. Anyways... I got into a can of worms. I positioned the valve stems on the top. Pushed in the valve stem core to let the small amount of chloride out before checking the air pressure, but it kept coming out. Not a very fast, a very small stream. So I put the valve cap back on. Went to to the other side and samething happend /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif. So I put the caps back on tight and check for leaks at the caps. Seemed not to be leaking. I need to fix this becasue caps aren't ment to keep the air and chloride in.

Questions:

Aren't tires only supposed to be loaded about 2/3 of the tire?

If so, could I put the valves at about 2/3, and remove the valve stem core and let the cloride run out till it reaches that level? I would jack the rear of the tractor up and wash down the chlordie in good shape with water?

Should I get new valve stem cores? These were letting chloride leak by after I pushed the core down to check the tire pressure.

Thanks

 

[Anonymous Poster]

You are supposed to support the weight of the machine on a jack when you check a loaded tire for air pressure.
With the machine sitting on the tire, fluid will ba above the valve stem. The tires weren't loaded with the machine sitting on them.

 

[Bird]

Derek, like you and Franz said, first step is to take the weight off the tire with a jack. Then you can pull the valve core to let any excess fluid out (if there actually is any excess). I think you can safely go as high as 80% which is about what you'd have with the valve stems at the top or 12 o'clock position. If you want a little less, you can turn the wheel from the 12 o'clock position to whatever level you want. </font><font color="blue" class="small">( Should I get new valve stem cores? )</font> Yes, if they leak, but they may not if you remove them and wash them in clean water while holding them open. However, they're cheap and new ones certainly wouldn't hurt anything.

 

[Rowski]

Oh boy... Ran it to big trouble this afternoon /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. Wanted to let some of the liguid out of the rear tires and the valve stem broke just at the bottom of the external threads for the valve cap. Liquid leaking everywhere. Plus I have a brand new T-8 Harley rake and a brand new Woods BB720 cutter just waiting to be used! My rims are rusting where the valve hole in the rim is. About now I've had it with Calcium chloride. I am very seriously considering not using calcium chloride. My dealer (which I was very unhappy with before this) over filled the tires by way to much, I'm guessing like 95%. I removed 15 gallons on one side today and the stuff was still coming out before the valve broke. I'm thinking of adding external weights or using the rim guard. Sorry for the rambling... I have flames in my eyes and smoke rolling out my ears!

I do have a few more questions:

Where can I find some info (on-line) about rim guard? I found (searching TBN) a phone number from a guy who created rim guard. Is there anything else does anybody have rim guard in the New England area?

About how much are external weight? Ball park figure. How much of this external weight can you put on equal to the liquid?

Any other ideas?


Thanks for the help!

 

[dourobob]

I feel for you - I have a marginal valve stem on a loaded tire and I will need to have it replaced soon. I had another string discussing tire loading earlier - some good advice there including a link to a Rim Guard Reference. From an earlier post by HAZ <font color="blue"> The guy who holds the patent on it is Glen Daly, in East Lansing, Michigan. If you give him a call at 517-351-6470 he'll send you info on it and tell you where the dealers are in your area </font>.

I spoke to Glen a couple of weeks ago and he said he hopes to have a web site up soon (haven't seen it yet) and he doesn't have any dealers in Canada but he may have someone in your area. Nice guy and very helpful - probably worth the phone call.

good luck
Bob

 

[RickB]

Rim Guard weighs 11 lbs/gal. We have installed it exclusively for about 2 years; probably well over 100 tractors. We are not close to you, but located in northeast Dutchess County, NY. About 12 miles from the junction of MA, CT and NY. Send me a PM if I can help more.

 

[Rowski]

What is the proper amount of liquid ballast for rear tires? I've gotten answers from 90% to as little as 30%. A gentleman I talked to day(who was the 30%) says you will have better traction with less liquid ballast (in the 30% range). He said a tire loaded over 75% will less traction than an unloaded tire. He also mention the footprint of the tire would be lighter, less hoping while traveling on the road, and a slight increase in HP due less rotational mass. He felt it was better to add external weight as needed, like bolt on weights or adding attachments (or ballast boxes). He claimed that this way you can tread lighter, less compaction and good traction. Then add the weight when needed.


What do you think....?? Opinions....??

 

[Bird]

Derek, I filled my tires with water and antifreeze to the presumed 75% level; had the valve stem at the top (12 o'clock) with the wheels lifted just off the ground and filled them to the point that the liquid ran back out. Now theories about liquid sloshing around, tires hopping, etc. sound pretty good to me, but I tried everything I could think of; fast starts and stops, full speed (which admittedly was only 11.9 mph on a B2710), smooth roads, rough roads and I can tell you the operator would have never known the liquid was there; drove just like it did without liquid. Of course, it did hold the back end down better when I was using the FEL, but otherwise I found no difference. And I used a neighbor's Oliver 1755 quite a bit, he had bought it used of course, and neither of us knew the rear tires were loaded with calcium until he punctured one. That's been my experience; maybe others have had different experiences.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

The formula I always heard was to fill to the top of the rim just below the valve stem (I guess around 75%???). I checked just now and the bx manual also describes the same values on pg. 37. 30% fill on a bx tire wouldn't amount to enough weight to be worth it IMHO.

The dealer I bought from loads the tires on all bx's w/ fels that they sell. They use w/w antifreeze and I guess their intent was to make sure the machine was as stable as possible without external weight. But I doubt that there would be much difference using wheel weights or a weight box if it was low enough. Just don't combine wheel weights and filled tires or per Kubota tranny damage could occur.
Just my .02.
DaveL

 

[JohnMiller3]

<font color="blue">...a slight increase in HP due less rotational mass... </font>

Huh????

What does that mean...? /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[mrcaptainbob]

A couple decades ago I had the rears filled with the chloride. Tubes were installed to insulate rim metal from it's corrosiveness. One tire blew about two years ago from dry rot. It was a chore to get anything to grow where it let loose. Will never put chloride in again. I now run windshield washer fluid with the antifreeze in it. Filled them to stem level. I do notice the drag of added weight when going up hill. (At least I'm blaming the weight in the tires on that!)

 

[Rowski]

It was more like Hmmm....for me.

Don't know, you'd have to ask him.

 

[hazmat]

<font color="blue">...a slight increase in HP due less rotational mass...

Huh????

What does that mean...? </font>

It means you can spin the tire up faster because it has less inertia. -- Ie it takes less HP to accelerate the tire. Once you are at cruising speed, you don't get any "extra" HP. Actaully once you are at speed, It will take more to stop the heavier tire which is probably an advantage on a tractor.

Rotational mass is something to worry about on a drag racing car, not a tractor.

 

[Rowski]

Ok, Here's the scoop. I decided I'm going to try to do it all my self. I bought a drill pump from Napa to unload and load the tires. The drill is cheap around $10, so if I burn one or two up it not to bad. Bougnt some fittings and bushings to fit the drill pump for around $7. Also bought a couple of tire irons for removing and installing the tire from the wheel. These were a bit pricey at $50 each, but worked very well. I had a slide hammer bead breaker at work already. It took about almost 2 hours to unload the tires with the Cal. chl. and remove the tire from the rim, I sand blasted the rusty part of the rim and primed it. All I need now is my Rim Guard and new tubes. Assemble the wheel, tire, tube an load with RG. Then I have to do the other side.

Any advise on loading the tires? I'll only give it 75% fill which is recommended. That would be with the valve stem at 12:00. Once I startputting the fluid in, I would need to stop every so often and let some air out, right? Becasue the fluid is displacing the air which builds pressure?

I have pictures of the rusty rim. I'll post after my project gets done.

What a PITA this calcium chloride is /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif. I really hate it /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif! My skin is all itchy, tools rust up quickly. I'll be glad when I've got Rim Guard on both wheels.

 

[Rowski]

I taked to an engineer at Firestone Ag division about loading tires. He recommends a 75% fill. You can go higher but you need to leave some air space in the tire for tire flexing. Especially if you hit rocks or stumps. He said if tire can't flex when stricking objects even at slow speeds tire damage can ooccur. Having a tire loaded with only small amounts of liquid and result in sloshing. He said it is very noticeable at speed and can cause hopping and a surge like feeling.

He also told me that a 4 ply tire which is on my tractor is not the proper rating, too weak. I wish he hadn't told me that /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Hi,

I did read this thread but if it was mentioned I forgot. How much does the rimguard stuff cost?

I filled my rear tires with WW fluid at about 60 cents per gallon. I'm not sure if Rimguard would be worth much more than about a dollar a gallon to me.

Just curious...

 

[Rowski]

Finally got my overloaded loaded tire problems solved /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

My tires originally had about 7o gallons of calcium chloride a piece in them. That is a guess as I had 2 55 gallon barrels full and a 3rd about 1/2 full. Now I have 45 gallons of Rim Guard in each. The tractor rides a lot better on the road. Had at top speed with the 1200 lbs Harley rake on it. Ran much smoother actually seemed like I had more power in my highest gear going up hill, my rpms didn't drop as much as it used to.

In all I'm happy I did what I did, knowing my rims are safe from future rusting.

Now I can use the T-8 Harley rake and Woods BB720 rotary cutter /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif!

Thanks for all the help and advise.