OP
2manyrocks
Super Member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2007
- Messages
- 8,520
About a 5 hour drive, but that's an attractive price.
Orec tracked flail vs Grillo wheeled flail vs ride on
- Thread starter 2manyrocks
- Start date
- Views: 30834
jeepcoma
Bronze Member
Unless walking behind a tractor is a physical limitation for you, I don't see any advantages to that Sherpa 4wd unit. Not knocking it since I've never seen or used one, but for clearing land there are a lot of downsides. A big advantage of the 2-wheel tractors with a flail (or any mowing implement) out front is exactly that - the first thing impacting the material you want to mulch is the cutting implement itself. I would not want to be running over trees or obstacles with that 4wd unit.
jeepcoma
Bronze Member
This is a nice pro to using a walk-behind that shouldn't be overlooked, depending on what you intend to do with the land once clear. I reclaimed land to put horses on, so mowed 8 acres with a 21" push mower... three times (this was before I had a 2-wheel tractor). It took forever but was time well spent - found and filled three gopher holes that could have easily been a broken leg for a horse. Almost certainly would not have noticed them if using a larger machine.
After the push mower for the first year, I did the job with either the 72" cutter bar or the 34" flail mower for many years to beat down the overgrowth (especially along what used to be fence lines that were overgrown), and now that the land is reclaimed I am happy to mow it with the 60" deck on my 2025R as I am now familiar with the lay of the land.
Same land, but different tools for different jobs and needs.
OP
2manyrocks
Super Member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2007
- Messages
- 8,520
It would be a bit of a trip for me to buy it. My concern would be riding through 4-6' tall briars to cut them with the deck mounted below the operator's station and how effective that style of deck would be cutting that much volume of vegetation.
OP
2manyrocks
Super Member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2007
- Messages
- 8,520
Fecon dealer has them for rent to commercial accounts that have at least $1 million in insurance coverage. I don't have this coverage. They said the repair costs are astronomical and that customers who price renting vs hiring a contractor end up deciding it is less expensive to hire it done, especially since the customer isn't liable for repair costs if something gets broken.
One of the area tractor dealers is now renting dual wheel Ventracs with the 32hp kubota engine and 6' brush mowers for $550 day. That configuration has a 30 degree slope rating.
Hi again 2manyrocks 
I have been reading through this entire thread again the last few days, and after the overwhelming response you have had, I look forward to hear how you decide in the end.
Like so often in life, there is probably more than one solution to your hillside mowing job, and what seems as an obvious and perfect solution to one member, might not be the right choice for others. As stated, I only have experience with 2-wheel tractors for this kind of job, so I will restrict my comments to that. Just out of curiosity: Why do you want to mow this plot at all, and how and for what are you going to use it afterwards?
#1) A bit of „rock mowing“ is difficult to avoid, but in that regard the flail mower is a very safe implement - at least for the operator! When driving forward, the rotor turns opposite the tractor wheels. I have never experienced anything being thrown out the back of the mower, but no-one should be in front of the mower, as rocks might be thrown out that way, with great velocity!
#3) I have never worked with a Bachtold or a Gravely, but looking at your photos, I fully understand that you are reluctant to do so as well. A flail mower of some sort is the proper tool for your job, I’m convinced.
#9) Of course every implement has its limitations, but the 34’’ Berta weights 203 lbs, and will push over most of what comes in its way. When there are many woody stems like in your case, the flail will begin climbing them - and that’s not bad! This way the majority of the material is chopped up and only the toughest stems are left uncut. I usually cut at 1/2 working width in such tough conditions, and then the uncut material from the first cut is taken care of on the return run, and you end up with a nice clean finish. One can’t avoid that once in a while material will get cough in the mower housing and dragged along in sucht tough conditions. In that case I reverse a few feet and carry on.
#14) Like MossRoad, I would also begin at the uphill end of your plot. Mowing with a heavy implement on a slope in the 20°-range is a challenge with the 2-wheel tractors that most of us have. I have found it impossible to mow across such a steep slope with my BCS/Berta combination, and when trying to mow driving uphill, the flail tends to lift itself off the ground. I therefore mow downhill on the steepest parts, and uphill on the shallower parts. With a 2-wheel tractor there is no chance of reversing up the hill, as all the weight is on the mower, and the tractor will have no traction. You probably will have to drive to the end of the slope and turn around there for the return run.
#19) I agree with your Grillo dealer. I feel confident that my BCS/Berta combination would be able to leave your plot as clean as on my pictures in #102, but it will be quite a workout, and 5 acres is quite a job for a 2-wheel tractor.
If you have a $18k budget for mowing this plot alone, I would find someone with the proper tolls to do the mowing for me. For that kind of money there surely are people out there that will mow your plot for many years to come. The initial cut will be tough in any case, as this plot has been neglected for years, but the subsequent cuts should be much easier. I would recommend a cut in the spring, and one again in the autumn, to stay on top of things.
#25) Sometimes bigger is actually better, and when it comes to the wheels of a 2-wheel tractor used for mowing, it is certainly true. My BCS 740 came with the standard 5x10x20’’ wheels, but I soon got the bigger 6.5x12x23’’ ones. The additional 3’’ of outer diameter might not sound as much, but the tractor becomes a totally different animal. The standard wheels are also often mounted much too close to the tractor, giving it a very narrow track width. Especially on slopes, the track width should be just short of the working width of the mower, giving the most stability.
#29) I find it difficult to see why one would want to choose anything smaller than the 34’’ Berta flail mower, when the tractor is powered by a Honda GX 390 engine. Our member, ppea, has a Grillo G110 with the 34’’ Berta, and he is very happy with that setup as I understand. He has published a number of photos in the „Berta flail mower“ thread, that are worth watching.
#32) I fully agree with every single word in this post by jeepcoma!
#33 and #34) Again, jeepcoma is spot on! Joel from Earth Tools has some very useful information about sulkies on his homepage: Sulkies - Earth Tools
#46) You put your finger upon a very interesting topic, that is rarely mentioned in the 2-wheel tractor forum, and that is „mowing pattern“.
What you are referring to, is probably a mowing pattern similar to that shown in the video in post #26? Driving into the pile and reverse out again and again using the „nibble-method“, is not an efficient way to use a flail mower. The tractor in the video is a BCS, where it is possible to reverse with the flail still running. On a Grillo though, this is not the case, as the PTO will also change direction, and the flail will simply free-wheel to a stop.
#60) Simply walking behind a 2-wheel tractor in 1st gear when mowing, is the easy bit. With the 23’’ wheels on my BCS 740, it drives at 0.95 mph at rated engine speed, which adds up to 3-4 miles of walking on a 3-4 hour job. If you consider that „a significant amount of work“, I’m not sure if this is the right solution for you.
#62) Jrasband has it spot on: „Do not use the clutch anymore than you have to“!
Depending on the job at hand, working with a 2-wheel tractor might wear any operator down. On tough jobs like the one you are looking at, I limit myself to 3-4 hours, but if you are younger or in better shape than me, you might do more hours. Letting the tractor do the hard work while you try to spare yourself, is of utmost importance.
A flail mower is designed to mow when driving forward, and any time you pull the clutch or drive in reverse, you waste mowing time. For at short video that might not be a problem, but if you want to use your time efficiently and not wear out too early, you need to drive forward as much as possible. On my 12,000 ft2 job a few weeks ago, I probably had to reverse 5-6 times to cover the corners on the initial round. After that, I didn’t touch the clutch for an hour, while mowing inwards on the plot, until I was done. When turning 90° or less, I tend to swing the tractor around on the spot, and with tighter turns I either do a 180° turn and mow in the opposite direction, or do a 270° turn and carry on in the same direction in which I came. - I hope this makes sense?
#64) The handlebars on the Grillo tractors and on most of the BCS tractors can be swung to either side. On my BCS 740 the handlebars can swing 15° to either side of centre, which gives me around 16½’’ more distance to the uncut material
#66) When watching farmers mow on steep slopes in the alpine regions of central Europe, you will often see proper hydrostatic 2-wheel tractors like the ones from Rapid and Brielmaier - both made in Switzerland - and Ibex made in Austria. These are top brands in their field, but they are sadly way out of the budget that most of us in this forum have
#69) In the „Berta flail mower“ thread there are a number of photos of Grillo tractors with Berta flail mowers from our members travisbb and ppea. The latter has a Grillo G110 with a 34’’ Berta flail mower, and he seem to be able to mow exactly the stuff that you also have. He has also done all the right things to optimize his setup:
#96) Again, jeepcoma is spot on
#97) According to Joel on his Earth Tools homepage, the PTO on the BCS 779 Hydro „is directly gear/shaft driven“. Joel also states, that „the Hydro wheel-drive system robs an additional 20% of the engine HP“.
#104) Whether it is possible to replace the Honda GX 390 engine on the Grillo G110 I don’t know, but if you consider the hydro-option, BCS also offer the 660 Hydro model. This tractor comes with a 16 hp twin-cylinder gasoline engine from Briggs & Stratton: BCS 660 Hydro - 16HP - Earth Tools
To summarize:
If you are looking for mowing equipment for just this plot, I would find it difficult to justify an investment in any of the solutions recommended in this thread. As your plot has been neglected for so long, the initial job is going to be tough with any of the solutions mentioned. As you can see on my photo of the Fendt tractor in post #102, I had a contractor bring a forestry mulcher to do the initial cut as I got this plot which had also been neglected for years. This implement works a bit like a flail mower on steroids, and will leave a nice clean plot, that will be easy to keep clean in the future.
If we were living a bit closer to one another, Berta and I would like to come and demonstrate a flail mower to you for a cup of coffee, but that’s probably not going to happen
Best regards
Jens
I have been reading through this entire thread again the last few days, and after the overwhelming response you have had, I look forward to hear how you decide in the end.
Like so often in life, there is probably more than one solution to your hillside mowing job, and what seems as an obvious and perfect solution to one member, might not be the right choice for others. As stated, I only have experience with 2-wheel tractors for this kind of job, so I will restrict my comments to that. Just out of curiosity: Why do you want to mow this plot at all, and how and for what are you going to use it afterwards?
#1) A bit of „rock mowing“ is difficult to avoid, but in that regard the flail mower is a very safe implement - at least for the operator! When driving forward, the rotor turns opposite the tractor wheels. I have never experienced anything being thrown out the back of the mower, but no-one should be in front of the mower, as rocks might be thrown out that way, with great velocity!
#3) I have never worked with a Bachtold or a Gravely, but looking at your photos, I fully understand that you are reluctant to do so as well. A flail mower of some sort is the proper tool for your job, I’m convinced.
#9) Of course every implement has its limitations, but the 34’’ Berta weights 203 lbs, and will push over most of what comes in its way. When there are many woody stems like in your case, the flail will begin climbing them - and that’s not bad! This way the majority of the material is chopped up and only the toughest stems are left uncut. I usually cut at 1/2 working width in such tough conditions, and then the uncut material from the first cut is taken care of on the return run, and you end up with a nice clean finish. One can’t avoid that once in a while material will get cough in the mower housing and dragged along in sucht tough conditions. In that case I reverse a few feet and carry on.
#14) Like MossRoad, I would also begin at the uphill end of your plot. Mowing with a heavy implement on a slope in the 20°-range is a challenge with the 2-wheel tractors that most of us have. I have found it impossible to mow across such a steep slope with my BCS/Berta combination, and when trying to mow driving uphill, the flail tends to lift itself off the ground. I therefore mow downhill on the steepest parts, and uphill on the shallower parts. With a 2-wheel tractor there is no chance of reversing up the hill, as all the weight is on the mower, and the tractor will have no traction. You probably will have to drive to the end of the slope and turn around there for the return run.
#19) I agree with your Grillo dealer. I feel confident that my BCS/Berta combination would be able to leave your plot as clean as on my pictures in #102, but it will be quite a workout, and 5 acres is quite a job for a 2-wheel tractor.
If you have a $18k budget for mowing this plot alone, I would find someone with the proper tolls to do the mowing for me. For that kind of money there surely are people out there that will mow your plot for many years to come. The initial cut will be tough in any case, as this plot has been neglected for years, but the subsequent cuts should be much easier. I would recommend a cut in the spring, and one again in the autumn, to stay on top of things.
#25) Sometimes bigger is actually better, and when it comes to the wheels of a 2-wheel tractor used for mowing, it is certainly true. My BCS 740 came with the standard 5x10x20’’ wheels, but I soon got the bigger 6.5x12x23’’ ones. The additional 3’’ of outer diameter might not sound as much, but the tractor becomes a totally different animal. The standard wheels are also often mounted much too close to the tractor, giving it a very narrow track width. Especially on slopes, the track width should be just short of the working width of the mower, giving the most stability.
#29) I find it difficult to see why one would want to choose anything smaller than the 34’’ Berta flail mower, when the tractor is powered by a Honda GX 390 engine. Our member, ppea, has a Grillo G110 with the 34’’ Berta, and he is very happy with that setup as I understand. He has published a number of photos in the „Berta flail mower“ thread, that are worth watching.
#32) I fully agree with every single word in this post by jeepcoma!
#33 and #34) Again, jeepcoma is spot on! Joel from Earth Tools has some very useful information about sulkies on his homepage: Sulkies - Earth Tools
#46) You put your finger upon a very interesting topic, that is rarely mentioned in the 2-wheel tractor forum, and that is „mowing pattern“.
What you are referring to, is probably a mowing pattern similar to that shown in the video in post #26? Driving into the pile and reverse out again and again using the „nibble-method“, is not an efficient way to use a flail mower. The tractor in the video is a BCS, where it is possible to reverse with the flail still running. On a Grillo though, this is not the case, as the PTO will also change direction, and the flail will simply free-wheel to a stop.
#60) Simply walking behind a 2-wheel tractor in 1st gear when mowing, is the easy bit. With the 23’’ wheels on my BCS 740, it drives at 0.95 mph at rated engine speed, which adds up to 3-4 miles of walking on a 3-4 hour job. If you consider that „a significant amount of work“, I’m not sure if this is the right solution for you.
#62) Jrasband has it spot on: „Do not use the clutch anymore than you have to“!
Depending on the job at hand, working with a 2-wheel tractor might wear any operator down. On tough jobs like the one you are looking at, I limit myself to 3-4 hours, but if you are younger or in better shape than me, you might do more hours. Letting the tractor do the hard work while you try to spare yourself, is of utmost importance.
A flail mower is designed to mow when driving forward, and any time you pull the clutch or drive in reverse, you waste mowing time. For at short video that might not be a problem, but if you want to use your time efficiently and not wear out too early, you need to drive forward as much as possible. On my 12,000 ft2 job a few weeks ago, I probably had to reverse 5-6 times to cover the corners on the initial round. After that, I didn’t touch the clutch for an hour, while mowing inwards on the plot, until I was done. When turning 90° or less, I tend to swing the tractor around on the spot, and with tighter turns I either do a 180° turn and mow in the opposite direction, or do a 270° turn and carry on in the same direction in which I came. - I hope this makes sense?
#64) The handlebars on the Grillo tractors and on most of the BCS tractors can be swung to either side. On my BCS 740 the handlebars can swing 15° to either side of centre, which gives me around 16½’’ more distance to the uncut material
#66) When watching farmers mow on steep slopes in the alpine regions of central Europe, you will often see proper hydrostatic 2-wheel tractors like the ones from Rapid and Brielmaier - both made in Switzerland - and Ibex made in Austria. These are top brands in their field, but they are sadly way out of the budget that most of us in this forum have
#69) In the „Berta flail mower“ thread there are a number of photos of Grillo tractors with Berta flail mowers from our members travisbb and ppea. The latter has a Grillo G110 with a 34’’ Berta flail mower, and he seem to be able to mow exactly the stuff that you also have. He has also done all the right things to optimize his setup:
- Large diameter tires
- Increased track width just shy of the working width of the flail mower
- Wheel weights for added traction
- The front inlet of the flail mower is raised to its highest position
#96) Again, jeepcoma is spot on
#97) According to Joel on his Earth Tools homepage, the PTO on the BCS 779 Hydro „is directly gear/shaft driven“. Joel also states, that „the Hydro wheel-drive system robs an additional 20% of the engine HP“.
#104) Whether it is possible to replace the Honda GX 390 engine on the Grillo G110 I don’t know, but if you consider the hydro-option, BCS also offer the 660 Hydro model. This tractor comes with a 16 hp twin-cylinder gasoline engine from Briggs & Stratton: BCS 660 Hydro - 16HP - Earth Tools
To summarize:
If you are looking for mowing equipment for just this plot, I would find it difficult to justify an investment in any of the solutions recommended in this thread. As your plot has been neglected for so long, the initial job is going to be tough with any of the solutions mentioned. As you can see on my photo of the Fendt tractor in post #102, I had a contractor bring a forestry mulcher to do the initial cut as I got this plot which had also been neglected for years. This implement works a bit like a flail mower on steroids, and will leave a nice clean plot, that will be easy to keep clean in the future.
If we were living a bit closer to one another, Berta and I would like to come and demonstrate a flail mower to you for a cup of coffee, but that’s probably not going to happen
Best regards
Jens
Last edited:
OP
2manyrocks
Super Member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2007
- Messages
- 8,520
Thank you, Jens, for your thoughtful analysis.
I was going to let this area reforest itself rather than mow it, but now that I see what a mess it has become, I'd like it cut. Plus, it would be safer from a fire perspective if the vegetation was mowed.
I am in the processing of asking for estimates for hiring a forestry mulching contractor to see what a contractor would charge.
After I started this thread, one of the area tractor dealers now has a Ventrac slope mower equipped with a 32hp kubota, dual wheels, and a 6 foot rotary brush cutting deck for rent for $550 a day. I thought about renting his machine, but my concern is that the machine might get damaged. I cut some of this area with my Yanmar tractor yesterday, and a vine wrapped around the rotary cutter PTO shaft, destroying the oil seal before I could get it shut down, reminding me that it is possible to damage a machine while doing this job.
Researching 2 wheel tractors, it appears that we in the USA are pretty much limited to 32" mowers and BCS/Grillo tractors under 16hp. My thought is that the cutting width and available HP is driven by how wide the tractor needs to be for use in row gardening in the USA.
By contrast, Rapid and Brielmaier appear to be very driven by cutting width and maximum mountainside stability. It looks like there is at least one 25hp or so walk behind tractor in Europe with about a 48" flail mower intended for municipal use and probably priced accordingly.
Getting this jungle cleared off is one consideration. The other is how best to keep it mowed hereafter.
Although I don't want to spend a lot on a slope mower like a Power Trac PT-1430 (about $25,000) and have to maintain it, too, I'm not sure I want to mow this many acres with a walk behind every year. Power Trac is one of the few companies in the US to sell a ride-on tractor with a 30 degree slope rating and a front mount brush cutter.
April-October is active snake season here, which also impedes my desire to use a walk behind tractor.
I was going to let this area reforest itself rather than mow it, but now that I see what a mess it has become, I'd like it cut. Plus, it would be safer from a fire perspective if the vegetation was mowed.
I am in the processing of asking for estimates for hiring a forestry mulching contractor to see what a contractor would charge.
After I started this thread, one of the area tractor dealers now has a Ventrac slope mower equipped with a 32hp kubota, dual wheels, and a 6 foot rotary brush cutting deck for rent for $550 a day. I thought about renting his machine, but my concern is that the machine might get damaged. I cut some of this area with my Yanmar tractor yesterday, and a vine wrapped around the rotary cutter PTO shaft, destroying the oil seal before I could get it shut down, reminding me that it is possible to damage a machine while doing this job.
Researching 2 wheel tractors, it appears that we in the USA are pretty much limited to 32" mowers and BCS/Grillo tractors under 16hp. My thought is that the cutting width and available HP is driven by how wide the tractor needs to be for use in row gardening in the USA.
By contrast, Rapid and Brielmaier appear to be very driven by cutting width and maximum mountainside stability. It looks like there is at least one 25hp or so walk behind tractor in Europe with about a 48" flail mower intended for municipal use and probably priced accordingly.
Getting this jungle cleared off is one consideration. The other is how best to keep it mowed hereafter.
Although I don't want to spend a lot on a slope mower like a Power Trac PT-1430 (about $25,000) and have to maintain it, too, I'm not sure I want to mow this many acres with a walk behind every year. Power Trac is one of the few companies in the US to sell a ride-on tractor with a 30 degree slope rating and a front mount brush cutter.
April-October is active snake season here, which also impedes my desire to use a walk behind tractor.
Last edited:
OP
2manyrocks
Super Member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2007
- Messages
- 8,520
Update: I hired a company who used a Cat299d equipped with a Cat mulching head to clear this slope.
It was money well spent because they were able to grind up even some small trees on the slope in only a few hours that would have otherwise turned into a chainsaw job plus having to drag the debris off the hillside. It also made a difference that the operator was experienced operating this equipment on slopes.
The mulch residue left behind is pretty deep in places, and there are still some shattered tree stumps here and there.
Now that I am able to walk on it again, I feel like I need a ride-on solution of some kind or a remote control cutter because I doubt I can personally handle using a walk behind to maintain this slope.
Before as seen from top of hillside:
After as seen from bottom of hillside:
It was money well spent because they were able to grind up even some small trees on the slope in only a few hours that would have otherwise turned into a chainsaw job plus having to drag the debris off the hillside. It also made a difference that the operator was experienced operating this equipment on slopes.
The mulch residue left behind is pretty deep in places, and there are still some shattered tree stumps here and there.
Now that I am able to walk on it again, I feel like I need a ride-on solution of some kind or a remote control cutter because I doubt I can personally handle using a walk behind to maintain this slope.
Before as seen from top of hillside:
After as seen from bottom of hillside: