Orec tracked flail vs Grillo wheeled flail vs ride on

[2manyrocks]

A 2-wheel tractor with a flail mower will absolutely annihilate that briar patch. It's the correct tool for the job, no need to keep deliberating about it. If you don't want to buy one, I agree that renting or hiring someone for a day make a lot of sense, especially if you just want a once-and-done approach. Buying a 2-wheel tractor on the other hand is an investment - yes it's expensive, but it's a versatile machine that will last you many years. If your only goal is to clear this patch, buying brand new probably doesn't make sense. Used packages do come up often enough and Earth Tools has a bulletin board and lots of good deals.

I have all the implements that are being discussed here: flail mower, double action cutter bar, brush hog, small lawn mower, big lawn mower, flamethrower. The flail mower is exactly what you need for this job and would be the only tool I'd reach for in the case. You already have a nice clearing up to the patch so you can offset the handle bars so that you are working in the cleared space, and cut right across it. It'll mulch it so nicely that you can wear flip flops while you cut.

I think a misconception is that because they only have two wheels, they are thought of as "big lawnmowers" and put in that pricing/utility category. They are not - they are tractors in every sense of the word, and the implements they drive and just as rugged as anything you can get for larger 4-wheel tractors.

Other random thoughts based on things you've brought up:

* When clearing land, things happen fast. Speed is not your friend. Even 0.8 mph will be too fast some times and you'll be wishing for a half gear slower (or a hydro)
* You shouldn't consider anything other than the largest foam filled tires you can get.
* I've never spun the wheels unless I drive it right into a big tree or solid object. You'll bog the engine down first if you've got too much material under the deck.
* You won't need to be working hard behind the levers, because you won't need to apply pressure to lift the deck. You want it flat on the ground.
* I'd only be taking "nibbles" if I thought there was an obstacle somewhere that I couldn't see, like a partially buried concrete footing or a rusting pile of iron that someone piled up.
* Doing a 180* turn while mowing in 3rd gear will have you running to keep up, but in all other conditions it's a walk in the park

Thank you for the additional perspective.

The BCS 779 is the only hydro I see for sale new at a current list of $7,504. IMO, it would be much better for tailoring ground speed to both ground and vegetation conditions, but is quite a bit more than the used Grillo 110 under consideration at roughly $3,500.

The hydro would eat some of the available power, but I agree that slower is better in this situation, particularly when the vegetation is so tall and there is so much more volume of material for the frail to shred.

Mowing with the Bachtold, it was absolutely better to nibble and cut up the vegetation while it was standing instead of cutting it and then trying to grind it up laying on the ground. If the vegetation entangled the Bachtold, it became much more labor intensive to get it free, especially because there is no power reverse on the Bachtold.

In my experience, it is very important to be able to grind up the vegetation as I go. I'm just not sure how all that material will feed into a flail mower even if I used a hydro to slow it down. Maybe that offsets the additional cost of the hydro, but I'd want to be pretty sure it would work before paying double for the tractor.

Bigger diameter wheels on a gear drive would increase the .8mph speed by what, something like 10%? On the one hand, larger tires would help but at the cost of increasing ground speed which would hurt, IMO. Not sure about this aspect.

Have you any additional thoughts on buying a Bittante flail versus a Berta?

I am familiar with the land before it grew up in brush. There isn't any hidden junk unless some spy balloon has crashed and I didn't notice.

Being able to swing the handlebars seems like a decided plus for getting away from the yet to be cut standing briars. The other decided plus would be having a power reverse.

 

[Jrasband]

The 779 will also go 1 mph faster than the 853/749 and looks like a breeze to operate, I want one!

Larger wheels increase wheel speed by about 10%. One thing that is really nice about larger wheels is that it is easier to drive over obstacles.

Being able to keep your RPM maxed, and slow your wheel speed down or direction without changing gears will make the Hydro much easier to operate. Especially if you want to go slower than a gear drive would go in 1st. That said, I have never felt the need to go slower than I could go in 1st while mowing overgrowth with a flail.

To be able to be mowing in precarious terrain like you have pictured you will have a lot of obstacles which will be a a lot of stop and go. This is where the 779 will far excel over the gear drive.

The Hydro would be so nice to operate because you don't have to squeeze the clutch in much at all. In my experience It can get cumbersome to pull the clutch in a lot and If I was buying a new machine and I had the money it would be well worth the extra cost.

 

[Rustyiron]

2Many, I spent years clearing the type of stuff you pictured with a 2 wheel Gravely...... but I was around 16 years old. 30" mower and a dual wheel setup, my approach was handles down raising the mower for about 4' into the jungle, then drop the mower and back out. I'd repeat to either side. I was usually in a immature woods and mowing lawn style in long rows wasn't a good option.
Looking at your pics, working uphill would aid a little in the effort to raise the mower for the initial pass. I got a very nice "finish" this way.
You have the gravely aalready and probably have tried every approach, and this also was 40+ years ago and I was just a dumb kid full of piss and vinegar. Somehow I remember that work (and results) fondly and still have a warm place in my heart for those stubborn, heavy, cumbersome but solid as a rock machines.
I thought I'd mention my technique just incase you hadn't tried it. Dual wheels is a nice option for a Gravely walk behind.

 

[jeepcoma]

I was mostly tongue-in-cheek regarding the hydro. I often desire having one, but no way I would ever pay the cost (up-front costs, power it eats up, and fuel consumption). There's a few times though where you want to be at max engine speed and go slower!

Taller tires are more useful for ground clearance, I wasn't thinking at all about speed, but you're right. Clearing land, I'd opt for as much clearance as possible. I have high-centered mine several times and I went with the biggest tires available.

A used G110 at that price seems pretty good. If buying used, you can probably use it for a season or two and resell it at not much loss either - if you think of it as a rental, it might be worth that alone.

I have no experience with the Bittante but the Berta has been bullet proof (probably literally given some of the dents on the deck that I have acquired). Maybe try to find a parts manual for the Bittante and see how it is constructed, and how you could source replacement parts if you have a problem?

 

[2manyrocks]

So far as I know Daileys is the only US source for Bittante.

Making a note here that I think the Orec America walk behind track flail mower is the only one with a brush push bar. And there is also what looks to be a debris screen to protect the operator.

I thought about adding a push bar to the Bachtold, but decided the skinny bicycle tires don't have enough traction for it to actually help.

 

[jeepcoma]

I wouldn't want to push the brush, since the point is to run it over and mulch it. If pushing stuff around is a requirement the Orec would be the way to go; the 2-wheel tractors can do a lot, but landscaping isn't one of the jobs they are well suited to. You can get various front and rear mount blades for them, but... I would be looking for another tool if a dozer is a primary need. They are good at pulling but not so much for pushing.

A debris screen isn't needed for a few reasons. First is that the knives rotate in a forward direction and thus kick objects forward. Due to the orientation and height above ground, they kick objects forward, like a putting a golf ball. Big rocks and such just roll along the ground about 10 feet. They also have to pass under think hinged plastic screens so they won't ever have much velocity, even when hit by the front line of knives.

In order for something come out the rear (I have never witnessed this), it would have to be somehow kicked up inside the deck, hit by a knife at the top of the rotation, make it past the rest of the knives (there are three rows), then there is the solid roller that the entire implement rides on (even sturdier than the plastic guards), and then another set of plastic guards on the rear just for good measure. Then the tractor is in the way too.

Nothing comes out the back. Because of its design, it's very safe compared to rotary cutters that can fling materials in a 360* pattern and thus need a lot more guarding. If you're hitting lots of obstacles with the flail, the only thing that's not safe is your wallet.

 

[Rustyiron]

I was mostly tongue-in-cheek regarding the hydro. I often desire having one, but no way I would ever pay the cost (up-front costs, power it eats up, and fuel consumption).

This was mentioned earlier, it got me wondering....
If it's only the wheel drive that's "hydro", and the PTO was still mechanical, wouldn't the hydraulic loss be very minimal?
A hydrostatic drive is so perfect for low speed with a relatively low power - high load condition.

 

[2manyrocks]

Although the hydro is appealing for its ability to change speeds on the fly and I doubt that the power loss is really that much, I can't say if paying double to get the hydro is worth it or not. I think it comes down to whether the .8 mph speed of the mechanical gear tractor is a slow enough speed relative to the size of the flail mower and amount of brush to be shredded. And then there's the option of taking smaller bites instead of trying to cut the entire width of the flail mower.

About the push bar....

With this brush being 6' tall, my assumption is it could be easier for the flail to digest it if were pushed over just enough to feed into the flail. Not saying push it over entirely because that would be worse to shred. I'm just wondering if bending the brush over a bit would help the feed or does the flail just do that well on its own?

My second assumption would be that a flail that has a taller wide opening would seem better able to chomp away at tall brush than one that wasn't as tall. However, it were too open, then the material could overwhelm the cutting capacity of the flail.

Having never used a flail mower, feel free to keep telling me what I don't know.

 

[travisbb]

With this brush being 6' tall, my assumption is it could be easier for the flail to digest it if were pushed over just enough to feed into the flail. Not saying push it over entirely because that would be worse to shred. I'm just wondering if bending the brush over a bit would help the feed or does the flail just do that well on its own?

My second assumption would be that a flail that has a taller wide opening would seem better able to chomp away at tall brush than one that wasn't as tall. However, it were too open, then the material could overwhelm the cutting capacity of the flail.

In my experience a pushbar would be counter productive.

The opening on the Berta flail mower is about 6 inches tall. The way the plastic gates are oriented is like a small ramp which causes the mower to climb up bushes and saplings.

When mowing things like saplings the biggest problem is pushing them over before the base is cut. So you get a whole lot of nothing happening while the sapling is pushed over, then all at once the base of the sapling is cut and the rest is sucked into the flail mower in a split second.

If you've pushed over a lot of dense bush and it all gets sucked in at once it risks stalling the engine. It's better to keep the bush as vertical as possible to regulate how fast it is pulled into the mower.

 

[2manyrocks]

Thank you for explaining it to me.