Oppinions on an agressive dog

[Sigarms]

since "dogs are a lot like children". A LOT like children? Still scratching my head on that one................

Don't scratch too much

Making it simple, puppies, like infants, are to some extent products of their enviroment.

Children don't get to pick their parents, nor do dogs get to choose their masters.

I still would never leave our BC (or ANY dog) unattended with an infant, toddler, or small child.

And neither would I.

However, there are people who will and do.

There are also people who will leave a loaded gun unattended with an infant, toddler, or small child.

He believes that any parent that keeps any medium to larger sized dog with a small child ought to be shot along with the dog after their child is mauled.

The sad fact is if the parents lose a child due to ignorance (which we all can be guilty of to varying degrees), they can just have another child.

Yesterday driving to the bank, I heard on the radio about a 17 year old girl who killed her ex roomates kitten by putting the kitten in the oven and baking it to death. What kind of "up bringing" do you supposed she had?

 

[two_bit_score]

I'm sure he's pretty successful and a large amount of the show is based on truth, but are you convinced there have never been any slip-ups that have been edited out? That every single dog he's ever tried to rehabilitate has been aired? TV, even reality TV, is not about showing the whole truth because then you'd have each episode a week long with large amounts of time focusing on people sleeping. TV is about telling a story and marketing an idea that sells ad revenue and gets another season, and it only takes ONE slip up between a large dog and a small child to leave permanent. Believing that any person can wave a magic wand and turn a mean dog into one that would gingerly carry your infant to you in its jaws isn't a good idea.

Editing ALWAYS plays into any TV show. Your point is well made.

 

[N80]

Dogs will bark, it's their form of communication.

True. But so is urine marking. My dog is not allowed to do either one inside. And I'm not going to claim that my dog never ever barks at anyone, nor will I claim I'm some kind of dog genius. I think we have a dog that was bred to naturally be calm, trusting and easygoing (that's why I got a Lab and why I also think it is so INCREDIBLY important for people to buy the right breed of dog). But we have also spent a great deal of time teaching him not to bark at people. And no, we have never used a shock collar....but I would if I had to.

When people come over my house, I ask them if they are comfortable around dogs.

That's because you are a considerate host and I suspect that attitude is reflected in your dog(s).

Dogs being social animals, socialization plays a vital role in a dogs training IMO.

That is absolutely correct. And whoever said that dogs are like children was exactly right. Their behaviors reflect their upbringing. Either one, left to its own devices will behave like wild animal.

 

[Bird]

Their behaviors reflect their upbringing.

I'm afraid that's a generalization that's usually true of both people and dogs (and other animals), but not always true. There have been good people who were raised by bad parents, and vice versa. And there have been dogs that were "properly" raised and trained, but have suddenly attacked people without provocation.

It seems that the concurrence of opinion is that all will be well with your kids and your dogs, if you only understand them and properly raise and teach/train them. That's certainly what we hope for and it's true in the majority of cases, but not always by any means. That doesn't account for differences in personalities, genetics, instincts, etc.

Even within the same breed of dog (or horse, or cow, or other animal) or even within the same family of humans, there may be huge differences in personalities and actions. Just because you raise and train two or more dogs of the same breed as much exactly alike as you possibly can, doesn't mean they'll always react the same in the future.

 

[heehaw]

wayyyyy back in the 70's, i worked for the post office as a city carrier for about 6 months: about any dog you can think of, that everyone says would never hurt a fly, will chase and bite a postman: the first day on the job, my trainer missed being nailed by an irish setter by inches: i got bit 3 times in those 6 months, but only the german shepard really counted, he was headed for my throat. my postal trainer said if a dog has teeth, they will bite, if not, they will gum you, an i believe it.
heehaw

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

There is a big difference between an aggresive dog and a protective dog. Don't confuse the 2. Get rid of the dog. Save your kid from all possiblities of this aggresive pet.

You'll enjoy this story. A buddy raises championship level dogs known to be problematic. When training, if a dog gets aggresive, he will throw it on its back and bite it hard on the lip or nose. Yes, it sounds gross but he says that it will teach it who's boss of his pack.

 

[Bird]

Rick, I carried the mail a little earlier than you; 1957-59 in fact. I was a temporary part time carrier in a small town where nearly everyone let their dogs run loose, including my own part collie mixed breed. The postmaster needed someone to help when a regular employee was sick or on vacation, and he had to get special permission to give me a temporary appointment to start with because I wasn't 18 years old yet.

I could sling that bag over my shoulder and put that pith helmet on that was part of the uniform in those days (and the only part that I wore) and my own dog would start barking when she saw me coming a block away, just as she did with the regular postman who would briefly pet her and continue on.

Every dog in town barked at the postman, but there was only one dog that you really had to watch for and that was one that appeared to be mostly white samoyed. Even he never attacked me as long as I kept facing him.

Of course you understand that things were a bit different 50 years ago. The only vehicle the local Post Office had back then was an old leased Willys Jeep panel wagon with no drivers door. And it also had no muffler, so every human and every dog in town could hear it coming. The dogs all barked and chased it just for fun. We carried a good sized stick laying in the floor by the driver's seat, but I never used it. I'll never forget one day, 3 dogs were chasing me and barking and one was a big boxer that I wasn't familiar with and they were still right with me when I had to stop to make a delivery. Just as I stopped, that boxer stepped on a sandbur. He quit barking, came to driver's door on 3 legs, and just hopped up to me and put one front foot on the edge of the driver's seat and held the other front paw up to me. I pulled the sandbur out, and he backed off and went to barking again.

Of course in 1993-94, doing gas leakage surveys, I encountered a number of bad dogs, but fortunately never got bit, although my company had several leakage technicians bit by dogs every year.

 

[Tom_H]

Believing that any person can wave a magic wand and turn a mean dog into one that would gingerly carry your infant to you in its jaws isn't a good idea.

"Magic Wand"-that phrase has not been used anywhere, except by you. There is no magic wand. It takes very hard work, knowledge, and skill. You also are the only one to make any statement about the dog carrying an infant. Before you pass judgement on things that you don't have any knowledge of, please at least do some basic investigation regarding the subject. I would have been just as skeptical as you, but Cesar's program works. Skepticism is o.k., but at least have an open enough mind to do some research on it before you decide it is just a show that's edited to result in a fictitious outcome. The Latin prefix prae means beforehand, and the Latin base word judicium means to evaluate or pass judgement regarding something. So from these parts we get our word prejudice which means to pass judgement on something ahead of, or before, a full and sufficient examination of the facts. Please be open minded enough to examine something before you pass judgement.

 

[jdbower]

...but Cesar's program works.

As I said, I'm sure it does. For a lot of dogs, the basic theory that it's useless to train a dog without training the owner is sound common sense - I was never skeptical of the program but I am skeptical that it works for every dog under the sun. My point is that you can't trust that what you see on TV is reality - especially when they call it reality TV. There are likely plenty of dogs that this has been tried on where it doesn't work. Even if there is no unreleased footage of this, you can be assured that there is a screening process to ensure some dogs are not selected. The questions are 1) are you and your dog good candidates for the program or do one or both lack the discipline to succeed? and 2) is it really worth the effort and potential risk? If you can answer yes to both, go for it. But Cesar is not a deity and he cannot fix every dog. He's also not the Pet Psychic in that his program (the training program, I have no use for the TV show) is a decent one. So please don't pre-judge me for simply stating that TV shows use editing

 

[tallyho8]

Mailmen weren't the only ones that dogs went after. I was a paperboy on a bicycle in the late 50's and there were many roaming dogs at that time and they all came after the paperboy.

I kept a 2 1/2' galvanized pipe secured to my handlebars with a couple of rubberbands so that it was always ready for a quick draw. Many dogs came after me barking and snarling and as long as they stayed over 2' away everything was cool. But when they got within striking distance I never missed hitting one on the nose. And none ever came after me again after being hit once.

I always loved dogs and never liked harming them but a 12 year old has to protect himself.

 

[Bird]

I always loved dogs and never liked harming them but a 12 year old has to protect himself.

Did you ever carry a water pistol filled with ammonia?

 

[N80]

I'm afraid that's a generalization that's usually true of both people and dogs (and other animals), but not always true.

Of course. I did not mean to suggest that there were no exceptions.

 

[tallyho8]

Did you ever carry a water pistol filled with ammonia?

No, I couldn't afford ammonia back then.

 

[Sigarms]

Did you ever carry a water pistol filled with ammonia?

Actually, with some dogs, you don't even need ammonia. We found out a long time ago that dogs USUALLY don't like water being squirted on their nose.

Now, I've never tried "the water treatment" for an agressive dog, however, for a simple negative stimulous for bad behavior, we use a small red squirt water bottle.

I had a customer who actually kept his boxer at his office. He loved that dog, but boy, was he hyperactive. Dog always had an issue with wanting to jump on you ALL THE TIME (and this dog was pure muscle and strong). I consider myself a "dog person" and can tolerate (for short periods of time) bad behavior from someone elses dog when I'm the guest, but it got to the point where I couldn't tolerate it anymore (and having dogs wanting to jump on you is bad behavior, although it could be sign of insecurity). Brought in that small red water bottle, couple of squirts on his nose (with his owners permission of course) and as long as I had that red bottle in my hands, that dog didn't want to jump on me (although I could tell it was killing him).

Some may argue that dogs are color blind, but they always seem to know the difference between that red bottle and other colors.

Ironic, this technique works wonders with our yellow lab if she gets "to playful", but the Aussie mix just wants to drink the water up and will stand there being squirted.

I'm afraid that's a generalization that's usually true of both people and dogs (and other animals), but not always true. There have been good people who were raised by bad parents, and vice versa. And there have been dogs that were "properly" raised and trained, but have suddenly attacked people without provocation.

It seems that the concurrence of opinion is that all will be well with your kids and your dogs, if you only understand them and properly raise and teach/train them. That's certainly what we hope for and it's true in the majority of cases, but not always by any means. That doesn't account for differences in personalities, genetics, instincts, etc.

Even within the same breed of dog (or horse, or cow, or other animal) or even within the same family of humans, there may be huge differences in personalities and actions. Just because you raise and train two or more dogs of the same breed as much exactly alike as you possibly can, doesn't mean they'll always react the same in the future.

Amazing Bird, I agree 110%

When training, if a dog gets aggresive, he will throw it on its back and bite it hard on the lip or nose. Yes, it sounds gross but he says that it will teach it who's boss of his pack.

You need to know your animal before you attempt this and NEVER do this with a strange animal.

There is a big difference between an aggresive dog and a protective dog.

To some extent, yes, but it can be a VERY fine line which without proper training, can lead to some serious issues which dosen't bode well for the animal. The basic question to ask yourself if this behavior can be a potential problem is at what point is the animal showing agression for "protection"?

True. But so is urine marking. My dog is not allowed to do either one inside

With every dog that we've found a home for, every one has left our place house trained. Fact is, to find better families for dogs, you increase your odds of finding good homes if the dog has "house manners". I find it funny when some people are amazed that we do a home visit for placement of an animal. Yes, to some it's just a dog, but if you spend the time and work to train the animal, well... lets just say you'd be AMAZED at some of the people who want a pet.

Their behaviors reflect their upbringing. Either one, left to its own devices will behave like wild animal.

And the sad fact is that domesticated pets are like children in that you normally don't need a license to have either.

But Cesar is not a deity and he cannot fix every dog.

You're kidding, right

The best "reality show" for dealing with dogs with mulitple behavioral issues I can think of is to tour the Best Friends Animal Sancutary in Knaab (sp?) Utah. They do have a remarkable program.

As far as dogs chasing children on their bikes or the mail carriers, the question I would ask is where were the owners? Dogs should be supervised if they are not in a controlled area.

 

[LBrown59]

Did you ever carry a water pistol filled with ammonia?

No. But me and my cousin carried BB guns on our bikes.

 

[CDsdad]

I'll start by clarifying that I'm not a pet "lover". I won't see one abused or mistreated in any way, but most dogs are indifferent to me or shy away.

My kids have 2 dogs. A female cocker spaniel and a male border collie. The cocker spaniel was 3 years old when we brought home the border collie puppy and she made it known she was the boss. 6 months later the collie is twice her size and he is the boss of the two, and they generally have peace together, but both love my kids and my wife. We also have a cat which can whip either dog.

The collie is a typical hyper puppy and in about 3 months will go from a "he" to an "it". If either had/does ever show aggression toward my family they would be/will be gone. Somebody said you can have more kids. Well, we can't and I'm partial to the ones I have.

I don't hesitate to eliminate strays or unknown dogs that come around. We live very rural and anybody nearby knows which dog belongs where, and so do the dogs. So one roaming is generally a stray or one somebody has thrown out to fend for itself.

I wouldn't keep an aggressive dog around. Either someone willing to take him and tolerate or train him could have it, or the other solution.

 

[Dargo]

Did you ever carry a water pistol filled with ammonia?

Actually, yes, back in the mid 70's. That was after I received just over 100 stitches after I discovered that I couldn't out run a dog on my bicycle while delivering newspapers. I never had to use my 'special' squirt gun though. While I was still getting around in a wheelchair that dog died from a 'close range' shotgun blast to the facial area. That was after the owners refused to submit the dog for rabies testing and I was going to have to begin treatment. I've never asked, but I have a suspicion either my dad or one of his friends may have had something to do with that. Either way, I was happy because it tested negative for rabies and I didn't have to have all those shots.

 

[LMTC]

Actually, yes, back in the mid 70's. That was after I received just over 100 stitches after I discovered that I couldn't out run a dog on my bicycle while delivering newspapers. I never had to use my 'special' squirt gun though. While I was still getting around in a wheelchair that dog died from a 'close range' shotgun blast to the facial area. That was after the owners refused to submit the dog for rabies testing and I was going to have to begin treatment. I've never asked, but I have a suspicion either my dad or one of his friends may have had something to do with that. Either way, I was happy because it tested negative for rabies and I didn't have to have all those shots.

Wow, that's surprising. I know where we live, at least since my teen years (because of an incident in our neighborhood), the law provides for the health department to take and quarantine the animal after a bite if the owner doesn't provide satisfactory assurance to confine and isolate it for the observation period.

 

[N80]

They either observe it or kill it and examine the brain tissue. A shotgun blast to the head could have made the brain biopsy impossible. There are other tissue samples that can be used but brain is the standard from what I remember.

 

[LBrown59]

Actually, yes, back in the mid 70's. That was after I received just over 100 stitches after I discovered that I couldn't out run a dog on my bicycle while delivering newspapers. I never had to use my 'special' squirt gun though. While I was still getting around in a wheelchair that dog died from a 'close range' shotgun blast to the facial area. That was after the owners refused to submit the dog for rabies testing and I was going to have to begin treatment. I've never asked, but I have a suspicion either my dad or one of his friends may have had something to do with that. Either way, I was happy because it tested negative for rabies and I didn't have to have all those shots.

Here the owner has no say in the matter.