Opinions

[GCLM]

Hello folks! Ive come full circle and looking at getting myself a new small tractor. I have searched but I really didnt know what to search for so please bear with me!

Ive ran a mowing business for some time and ran ZTR's for the last 10+ years. Prior to that I ran a JD X595. I am getting out of the mowing but because I live on an acreage I still need a mower.
I need a mower but I dont need a 60" Industrial Super Z.
I also own a Kubota B1700 tractor but it is also to big, slow and cumbersome for my property. I have a 60" deck and FEL for it. Mowing is an option with it!

My thinking is I need a smaller tractor like a BX or JD 1 series. There are other brands of course like Massey and Kioti etc. Point is, I think the small size with tractor functionality is what I need!

All these tractors carry MMM, FEL, Hydro 4wd but, and this is really the question... What brand or machine in the small size will run a 4 in1 bucket?

My Kubota has a standard FEL but I would really like something that will grab and carry (light) tree trimmings, palm fronds, scrape driveways, level soil/ground etc.

Sorry for the long post but Im really hoping someone will at least point me in the right direction, give me food for thought! Its all about the 4 in 1 bucket!
Thanks in advance!

 

[jenkinsph]

You should be able to add a third circuit to a BX2670-1, 1025R and your B1700, not necessarily factory but good enough to solve the problem. The advantage the B1700 has over the BX is position control but the BX is faster, more powerful and nimble. The 1025R has position control and like the BX offers the other function you want other than the triple hydraulics. I suspect you will find that most of these small machines will require you to fab up the third hydraulic function. The least expensive way out is to modify the B1700 you have. Is the B1700 gear or hydro?

 

[Grandad4]

Hello folks! Ive come full circle and looking at getting myself a new small tractor. I have searched but I really didnt know what to search for so please bear with me!

Ive ran a mowing business for some time and ran ZTR's for the last 10+ years. Prior to that I ran a JD X595. I am getting out of the mowing but because I live on an acreage I still need a mower.
I need a mower but I dont need a 60" Industrial Super Z.
I also own a Kubota B1700 tractor but it is also to big, slow and cumbersome for my property. I have a 60" deck and FEL for it. Mowing is an option with it!

My thinking is I need a smaller tractor like a BX or JD 1 series. There are other brands of course like Massey and Kioti etc. Point is, I think the small size with tractor functionality is what I need!

All these tractors carry MMM, FEL, Hydro 4wd but, and this is really the question... What brand or machine in the small size will run a 4 in1 bucket?

My Kubota has a standard FEL but I would really like something that will grab and carry (light) tree trimmings, palm fronds, scrape driveways, level soil/ground etc.

Sorry for the long post but Im really hoping someone will at least point me in the right direction, give me food for thought! Its all about the 4 in 1 bucket!
Thanks in advance!

Just an opinion, but most of the 4 in 1 setups I've seen weigh quite a bit more than a standard bucket. Since these little tractors don't lift all that much to begin with, you're left with a significantly reduced payload.

For that reason I'd think a better option would be a quick attach loader setup with a grapple. Understand the new BX Kubota's have a neat set of factory loader attachments but other brands can also be rigged up with QA bucket/grapple configurations as well.

Edit by Grandad4: Just had a chance to check the Kubota website. Grapple not one of the BX front quick attach options. Would have to be a 3rd party grapple, but still a better option than 4 in 1, IMHO.

 

[4570Man]

I have a b7200 with only a mmm, and a L3240 that I pull a 72" finish mower with. If you are not happy with your current mower you probably won't he happy with a BX mower. They all mow about equally as "cumbersome".

 

[TJP89]

A new scut is going to be just as big as the old B. Most SCUTs aren't really meant to handle additional hydraulics. If you want one anyway, get a SSQA loader, then get a small grapple, because a 4 in 1 would really sink a SCUT IMO.

 

[Will_C]

My. Rotherham had a 4-1 bucket on a Case 580 backhoe- even on a tractor of that size, he didn't like the decreased loader capacity. He hasn't one on his last 2 backhoes.

 

[GCLM]

Thanks for the replies!
I went out and had a look at a Massey and Kub BX today. I got brochures for both and a Kioti. They all have 4 in 1 loader options. I hear what your saying about weight but the buckets on these things are very small. Maybe half the size of the bucket on my B1700.
That is kind of a worry for moving mulch but I need the 4in1 for a purpose. I wonder if I could get a second normal bucket and fit it as needed specifically for mulch?
But with that said, these smaller machines will be much faster around my property than my current Kub so the difference in bucket size could be made up with the number of trips to the mulch pile, around the property etc.

I have several months before I need to make a decision so no rush on this however I mentioned to an ex customer that I'll be selling my SZ at a price they were talking of buying a much smaller machine. Its a no brainer to buy my SZ but they are the kind that are penny wise, dollar foolish so see how I go!

Keep the ideas or opinions coming though, it is appreciated!

 

[AxleHub]

Thanks for the replies!
I went out and had a look at a Massey and Kub BX today. I got brochures for both and a Kioti. They all have 4 in 1 loader options. I hear what your saying about weight but the buckets on these things are very small. Maybe half the size of the bucket on my B1700.
That is kind of a worry for moving mulch but I need the 4in1 for a purpose. I wonder if I could get a second normal bucket and fit it as needed specifically for mulch?
But with that said, these smaller machines will be much faster around my property than my current Kub so the difference in bucket size could be made up with the number of trips to the mulch pile, around the property etc.

I have several months before I need to make a decision so no rush on this however I mentioned to an ex customer that I'll be selling my SZ at a price they were talking of buying a much smaller machine. Its a no brainer to buy my SZ but they are the kind that are penny wise, dollar foolish so see how I go!

Keep the ideas or opinions coming though, it is appreciated!

GCLM,

You more than most should recognize that lawn work like mowing etc.. succeeds in different degrees depending on the equipment choices . . I.e. cutting deck. While a BX and a Massey GC1700 series have many things in common they do have some noticeable differences too.

Cutting deck . . you say you no longer need the wide 60 inch mowing . . very reasonable. So a BX1870 can have a 48 inch deck. And a Massey GC can have the unique 6 blade 54 inch mulching deck with no side discharge.

Both brands have several other options . . but these 2 specific points above are unique products.

I chosevthe GC1715 and then researched extensively to find the mulch deck. Literally my 54 inch deck requires less space than even a 48 inch deck because there is no side discharge.

I also wanred a bit wider seating layout and a 2 pedal hydro for my knee benefit and . . 2 pumps instead of one to make fel work easier and operable at both low and normal rpm. But thats me.

As for your other needs . . I'd recommend a specific 3rd party provider because the choices are more readily usable on a scut and uniquely sized just for the scut benefits.

Now about the b1700 you already have. My friend has the same thing and has a 3pt. finish mower he cuts with. Its a fine unit . . but certainly very different than a proper scut with a good mower deck. Your fel bucket is larger . . But so is your tractor footprint and height.

I know my friend really likes what I invested in because its more maneuverable . . more versatile . . yet more efficient in time, fuel, and convenience.

 

[bcp]

BX 4-in-1 bucket:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/327867-4-1-bucket-bx.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/329956-bx-4-1-bucket.html

Bruce

 

[GCLM]

GCLM,

You more than most should recognize that lawn work like mowing etc.. succeeds in different degrees depending on the equipment choices . . I.e. cutting deck. While a BX and a Massey GC1700 series have many things in common they do have some noticeable differences too.

Cutting deck . . you say you no longer need the wide 60 inch mowing . . very reasonable. So a BX1870 can have a 48 inch deck. And a Massey GC can have the unique 6 blade 54 inch mulching deck with no side discharge.

Both brands have several other options . . but these 2 specific points above are unique products.

I chosevthe GC1715 and then researched extensively to find the mulch deck. Literally my 54 inch deck requires less space than even a 48 inch deck because there is no side discharge.

I also wanred a bit wider seating layout and a 2 pedal hydro for my knee benefit and . . 2 pumps instead of one to make fel work easier and operable at both low and normal rpm. But thats me.

As for your other needs . . I'd recommend a specific 3rd party provider because the choices are more readily usable on a scut and uniquely sized just for the scut benefits.

Now about the b1700 you already have. My friend has the same thing and has a 3pt. finish mower he cuts with. Its a fine unit . . but certainly very different than a proper scut with a good mower deck. Your fel bucket is larger . . But so is your tractor footprint and height.

I know my friend really likes what I invested in because its more maneuverable . . more versatile . . yet more efficient in time, fuel, and convenience.

Since I can get a 4 in 1 loader for these machines, the question really is, which machine is best? My Kub dealer is closest and the Massey and Kioti are both sold at the same dealer just under and hour away. Thats not a deal breaker by any stretch as its an easy drive.

You mention the Massey has 2 pumps. What are the benefits of that? To be honest, the Massey has always looked a little better to me. "Seemed" to have a lower CoG but that could just be the tires.
The grass I cut can get very long at times, often actually during rainy summers so a side discharge is the go. 60 or 54" will work around this property. There are multiple smallish areas, no big wide open so manoeuvrability is paramount along with the low CoG for turns on say 15' slopes. There is a relatively small in size 25' sloped area that I would have to go up, back down across to mow. This is a pita actually but its tough work with a 21"sp mower. Low CoG!!!!! I wouldnt attempt to mow across!

Thanks again so the question now is, and Im sure Ive missed a few things, which is the better tractor for my needs? Strongest, fastest, best loader lift weight etc. I understand I could cause a bit of drama asking but still, opinions guys! We're all entitled to them! Numbers on brochures dont always tell the hole story! Real life experience is way better! I appreciate the time and replies! This will be a massive investment so need opinions and thoughts from those that use them, you lot!

 

[AxleHub]

1. Since I can get a 4 in 1 loader for these machines, the question really is, which machine is best?

2. You mention the Massey has 2 pumps. What are the benefits of that?

3. To be honest, the Massey has always looked a little better to me. "Seemed" to have a lower CoG but that could just be the tires.

4. The grass I cut can get very long at times, often actually during rainy summers so a side discharge is the go.

5. 60 or 54" will work around this property. There are multiple smallish areas, no big wide open so manoeuvrability is paramount along with the low CoG for turns on say 15' slopes.

6. This will be a massive investment so need opinions and thoughts from those that use them, you lot!

Greetings GCLM

Responses by number.

1. Lots of choices of 4in1 buckets . . some much better than the rest. Imo

2. FEL operates much faster and stronger at lower rpm ranges.

3. For 8 years I wanted a bx . . but in the 9th year when I actually was going to invest . . it was a Massey GC. Kubota BX product is very good . . but my hills felt better with the Massey GC . . . not to mention other points as well.

4. Side discharge in long wet grass means either clogging the chute or clumps and rows of grass. The unique mulching deck by Massey doesn't clog in bunches. It operates like a rear discharge under wet tall grass. Either type requires double cutting.

5. I have 15 to 25 degree slopes . . I chose Massey. I have lots of rock gardens and gardens . . I chose Massey because their 54 inch deck (mulching) is 54 inches. A kubota deck or most Massey decks you add 6 to 9 added inches of width to the deck "size" because of the chute.

6. You were in the business of lawn care for 10 years and a BX or GC supposedly requires "massive investment" ???? I'm really confused by that statement.

 

[GCLM]

Greetings GCLM

6. You were in the business of lawn care for 10 years and a BX or GC supposedly requires "massive investment" ???? I'm really confused by that statement.

Its a massive investment because its personal use, not business related so no tax benefit! All these machines will cost somewhere around Au$25000 so yes, it is a massive investment for personal use!

Things may be moving a little quicker than I expected. Went to mower shop this morning and mentioned Im out of the mowing industry. The owner mentioned he knew a guy that may be interested in buying my SZ.
The guy will be looking at it tomorrow morning so see how it goes. Good chance it will sell! Good deal for him and quick and painless sale for me!

Fingers crossed he might know someone interested in the Kubota as well but may take a while for that to happen.

The Massey brochure I have has the 4 in 1 loader hooked up to the machine on the front cover! Must be standard here!
Mulching deck isnt going to happen! Grass gets super thick and I have to cut low. Its different stuff to what many of you cut over there! I understand clumping etc all too well! I'd probably fab up an OCDC to help deal with things but the standard shield would be coming off straight away.

Really does sound like my thinking on the Massey was correct. Sounds like it ticks all the right boxes. I doubt I'd get a demo so its hard to know if its truly the right choice or not.
Thats why Im here asking about things!

I appreciate your input Axle. Do you have any photos or video of your machine working? Would love to see them!

 

[AxleHub]

Conversion of us dollar to au shows 25,000 au is too high unless cost basis is also different beyond conversion. Straight conversion would show under 21,500 au plus applicable taxes for fel, mmm, tractor, loading of tires, engine block heater, and assuming same rebate situation.

 

[boggen]

some more details from you.... overall acreage mowing. what projects do you plan to do?

mulch itself does not weigh that much. and many times on various manufacture websites you will see a "mulching bucket option" that is generally wider and can hold more material. then you have a general duty "heavier" bucket, for dirt / rock, and everything else. then 4 in 1 buckets.

you also have a variety of 3pt hitch stuff out there. that can do a lot of things. a TNT (top and tilt) for the 3pt hitch can make a huge difference. a TNT = replacing top link with a hyd cylinder, and then normaly just one, something both side links with a hyd cylinder. makes for on the adjustments to 3pt hitch easy and fast.

the issue of going small = a lot of extra stuff gets removed. example "split rear breaks" were you have a foot pedal for rear left and rear right tire, to 4x4 / MFWD, to overall larger frame and ground clearance, to transmission types and ability of them, a big factor is "more weight on bigger machines"

tires, R1 / agiculture tires, to R3 / turf tires, to R4 / industrial tires. tire type and projects can make a large difference.

==========
the "rider vibration pucker factor" riding lawn mowers after you mow for say half hour or longer ya get off, and ya skin just tingles and vibrate afterwords for a bit. larger tractors tend to get away from that.

if you have a vehicle / trailer combo. to haul say 2,000lbs equipment maybe 3,000lbs equipment. there are plenty rental options out there. and allow you to pick and choose what to rent, from a smaller skid steer, to a mini ex (mini excavator), to a mini TLB (tractor loader backhoe), to a ditch witch (to put in water, eletrical, gas, internet / telephone lines and like).

=========
any extra info on acreage ya mow, and projects you might want to do / need to do. will more likely help folks, help ya out better. and possibly point ya in this or that direction.

some additional notations, any major hills / slopes to deal with? little garden putting in? woods? landscaping around house? digging dirt / moving dirt? dealing with snow?

 

[GCLM]

Machine will be use primarily as a mower. Ive had an X595 before and I expect the tractors Im looking at to be similar in size.
I want the 4 in 1 for help in grabbing and moving all sorts of things around the property. ie palm fronds onto fire piles, scraping and prepping garden beds etc. Not moving 1000kg rocks! lol I have a FEL now and know its limitations, great for mulch but not much else. 4in1 is only limited by its size or capacity.
It will be used for some landscaping, scraping, levelling etc. How often have you wanted to just grab a branch with a FEL only to get frustrated? I have many times!
Property is 2.5acres. None of it is wide open, all broken up into 6 or 7 small areas. A ZTR is perfect for the mowing but thats all!
Ive been mowing acreage since 1999 so aware of vibration issues. Saw a neurologist a couple of weeks ago actually but thats another story. I have access to 3 brands of similar size. I will be getting one of them whether it vibrates or not! A proper suspension seat is a must!!!!!
Doubtful on turf tires, likely R1 or similar! Few options there but doubtful on turf! I use AT101 on my SuperZ so know the pitfalls but also the benefits!
The 3pt will have a farm all or what ever theyre called. I carry a 100lt spray pack around on it (the Kub) currently for spraying and weight. I will come up with some other way to counter weigh the FEL. Machine will be stripped back to just the deck as thats mostly what it will be doing, mowing. There will be no bush hogging or need for a box blade. No snow around here although its feeling like it could at the moment!

Hope Ive covered everything there Boggen

Axle, we get ripped a new one when it comes to pricing here! You have no idea. Back in 2011 I paid $17500 for my Super Z. I met the rep today and he told me they are now going for over $20000.
With that in mind, $25k for a tractor like these was expected. In fact, I think I paid near $17000 for my X595 back in the early 2000's.
Prices as written on the brochures including the 4 in 1 and 60" deck...
Kioti CS2610...... $22995
Kubota BX2670.. $24970
Massey 1715..... $26000

So, why is the Massey so much more expensive than the Kubota? Why would I buy the Massey over the Kubota? It has less HP!
I will add that there was no haggling in these prices, they are all there list price including tax. I'd expect to take $1000 or so off those prices once haggling started!
Kubota are looking at a price increase soon due to our dollar falling in the toilet! I'd bet the others will follow!

 

[boggen]

4in1 bucket, plus at min 1 rear hyd remote, maybe 2 rear hyd remotes. if you get enough hose, you can run the 3rd function needed for 4in1 all the way back to the rear of tractor. and just operate things via rear remote levelers.

weight is most likely going to be an issue. filling rear tires with a fluid might get you by. though something on 3pt hitch. or maybe rear wheel weights.

most likely a couple engine lifts / cherry pickers, might come in handy for you, pending on garage space, and were ya store stuff example FEL when not in use.

for traction, chains can be a nice on rear tires, vs going for say a R4 / industrial tire, or something with lugs on them. other words check for clearance for fenders / distance between inside of rear tire and frame work.

double check for some sort of "wiring" and switch, for connecting a 12v sprayer pump behind the tractor. might be a factor for you.
double check for higher above lighting on say ROPS. the FEL pretty much kills all lighting from front lights, though most likely not a factor for ya.

============
ya kinda down to the very fine niddy griddy. just re-reading your posts. about only thing you really need to do, is go out and physical seat on each machine and give them a test drive, and check to see if all the controls / steering wheels / levers / seat adjusts to you and better half. and just get the "comfort" thing going.
and...(what below is important to you?)
--seeing if you can easily pull off the FEL,
--see if you can easily pull out the mower deck,
--see if filters are all easy to get to, (air filter, engine oil filter, hyd filters, transmission filter?)
--easy place to check all fluids,
--are you able to get gas can up to gas tank easily?
--is the hood or any covers easy to get to / take off.
--is it easy to get a jack up and under unit if need be to fix something,
--are all the gauges easy to read even when sunlight nails them with lots of glare.
--does the ROPS fold down, and not pinch fingers, can you fit tractor in your garage/shed without taking down the ROPS. (big one for many)
--is there an actual spot for a bottle water or what not. and it will not drop / spill?
--when in the driver seat can you easily see what you are doing via FEL bucket? or are FEL arms in the way, engine in the way, tires in the way.
--are the FEL controls easy to get to, what about 3pt hitch controls?
--what about throttle, and go pedal / hst pedal. are they easy to use?
--is break pedal on opposite foot than the go pedal / hst pedal?
--a big one for me, GREASE ZERKS, are they all easy to get to? are there any hidden ones? or zerks at all in certain places?
--is it easy to take either an air compressor or leaf blower and blow everything out?
--if you lower deck or raise deck, does anything else raise/lower (3pt hitch, something else for some other brand / make / model specific attachment?

 

[boggen]

Versatile Tractors,Compact Tractors,Trailer Packages,Landscaping,Utility Vehicle Rentals,Mowers-Power Trac everything fits on the front. (nothing under or behind it) it has been afew years since i last looked and compared prices, but they were fairly competetive on pricing of actual tractor. the attachments cost a little more than a regular tractor and/or 3pt hitch stuff. ((i would actually like to own one of these, just because everything fits out on front and i can see what is going on without turning my head around.))

Ventrac - Products: Compact Tractors, Attachments, maybe as well

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

Machine will be use primarily as a mower. Ive had an X595 before and I expect the tractors Im looking at to be similar in size. . . .

I've seen an X500 series before but never driven one. But my recollection is that the X500 series is MUCH, MUCH smaller than a Kubota BX series. I had a John Deere GT235 until recently, and my Kubota BX2660 parked beside it was much larger.

 

[GCLM]

Boggen, those tractors are out of my league and unnecessary for my needs, so no need to get into that! Appreciate the effort though!

Poop, the X595 had a 24hp yanmar diesel and could run a 60" 7iron deck (I had the 54 yellow). Rear tires were 26x?x?. Sure, its a top of the range GT and not a true tractor, they are still a very good machine. I would get one but I want the 4in1. The 595 may be smaller but its not Much much smaller.
Heres a pic of my set up back in 2005. The trailer is 8' long for comparison. Actually, in that pic you can see palm fronds behind the ute. Those palms will be removed and the idea is use the 4in1 to help clean all that up. Those fronds are like 3' high or thick now. Thats just part of the use I will get with the 4in1.

 

[AxleHub]

I'm curious . . . in the picture . . the trailer seems so small and you wouldn't be able to xarry both units at the same time much less any others tools.

Was there a sowcual reason for such a small trailer?