Older Swinger articulated loader, part identification

[Solidoak]

Hi everyone,

Don't do much posting but sure do lots of reading here! I especially enjoy seeing tractor photo restoration projects! :thumbsup:

Anyway, I have this older articulated loader that needs to have a bushing replaced on one side. I don't know the exact part name but I attached a photo of the piece. It's the main loader arm that is mounted to the frame. I'm wondering if this is something that can be purchased at a parts dealer (IE can I drag this to a local tractor dealer to be identified?) as this is an older model that is no longer manufactured. If not, I'll be contacting the orig. manufacturer for details but I still need to identify the part first.

I'm also curious to see the setup on the newer loaders. Do any of you have to replace any parts similar to this due to wear and tear?

Any feedback would be much appreciated.

Solidoak

 

[ptgdigger]

While a tractor dealer who carries that brand is certainly an option to repair that it would probably be one of the more expensive solutions, most tractor dealers are at $80~$100 an hour now for shop labor. What I would do is look for a smaller machine shop with some welding capabilities or a weld shop with some machining ability, ask around, ask a friendly parts guy or salesman at a construction equipment dealer (backhoes, excavators) for some leads in your area. A machinist who is familiar with those kind of repairs can give you a much better outcome than a tractor mechanic using off the shelf parts.

Ray

 

[Solidoak]

Thank you for your input, Ray, haven't even thought about taking it to local machinist shops.

While a tractor dealer who carries that brand is certainly an option to repair that it would probably be one of the more expensive solutions, most tractor dealers are at $80~$100 an hour now for shop labor. What I would do is look for a smaller machine shop with some welding capabilities or a weld shop with some machining ability, ask around, ask a friendly parts guy or salesman at a construction equipment dealer (backhoes, excavators) for some leads in your area. A machinist who is familiar with those kind of repairs can give you a much better outcome than a tractor mechanic using off the shelf parts.

Ray

 

[dynamic industries 110]

Solidoak. The most common term is ball sockets. The old one needs to be torched out and a new one welded in. I have ordered new ones from Baum Hydraulics Corp. Part no. 179136. They are very similar to the originals and fit well. If you know someone with a torch and welder it is about a hour job.

What kind of shape is the lower pivot joint on your machine. I have replaced way more of them compared to arm joints.

 

[rScotty]

Solidoak. The most common term is ball sockets. The old one needs to be torched out and a new one welded in. I have ordered new ones from Baum Hydraulics Corp. Part no. 179136. They are very similar to the originals and fit well. If you know someone with a torch and welder it is about a hour job.

What kind of shape is the lower pivot joint on your machine. I have replaced way more of them compared to arm joints.

The original looks like a ball socket to me too. And I also agree that the job is one for a welder rather than a tractor mechanic. Some tractor mechanics do welding, as do some machinists of course. If it were me I'd look around the area for one-man welding/metal fab shops that do a lot of agricultural work or failing that a shop that does custom machinery and custom cars. You are looking for a good careful welder, but not any special parts.

BTW, can someone tell me if ball sockets common for narrow pivots like this? I usually see greaseable bushings there. I can see the advantage to using ball sockets in 3pt arms where the implement needs to be able to tilt one way or the other, But that's not the case in a loader arm. Actually I'm not sure which part of the loader system is shown in the photo, but if it is part of the right or left loader arms I just can't see any advantage to a ball socket over a simple welded bushing. Whether the arms use bushings or ball sockets, the pivot still has to be collinear with the same pivot on the other arm anyway. That's the important thing. In general, ball sockets don't take lube or high loads as well as a bushing does.
Maybe the photo is showing a single center pivot for a single cylinder bucket tilt. But even so I can't see why to use a ball socket over a plain simple bushing.
Only reason I can see for a ball socket would be if this is part of the center steering articulating mechanism.

Bottom line is I'd find a welding shop with a good careful craftsman and let him decide how to fix it. This is not an uncommon job. Every rural welding shop does similar work every day. It simply needs to be welded up with simple parts and careful attention paid to keeping it all aligned.
Looking at what you have there...and if it is what I think it is.... then if it came into my old shop - and it really is a loader arm pivot that moves in two planes rather than a steering part that moves in three....then I'd be tempted to just put the pin in and weld up that outside of the ball so that it is fixed in the arm.....turning the worn ball socket into a bushing.... Anyone?
Good Luck,
rScotty

 

[dynamic industries 110]

Scotty. The larger Swinger loaders do have the pin system like you propose. On this smaller model they used this instead. I think the idea was to give more surface area for wear than a 1 inch pin could provide. The outer area of the ball is almost 2in diameter. The main problem is all the wear force is on the front and the grease zerk is in the back. After the ball wears some the grease never gets forced to the front, it just squishes out the sides. Not the best design but still useable.

 

[rScotty]

Scotty. The larger Swinger loaders do have the pin system like you propose. On this smaller model they used this instead. I think the idea was to give more surface area for wear than a 1 inch pin could provide. The outer area of the ball is almost 2in diameter. The main problem is all the wear force is on the front and the grease zerk is in the back. After the ball wears some the grease never gets forced to the front, it just squishes out the sides. Not the best design but still useable.

Dynamic, that's an interesting way to look at why it was designed that way. Points to you, guy. That one sure had me beat! But I can see where it would be an idea worth considering. If it had stayed lubed it might have just worked out.
So even if that's the "the why of it", do you see any reason why the ball can't be welded solidly into the arm for using as a bushing now? Presumably it would either be drilled and tapped for a grease zerk or a drilled hollow pin with zerk. Admittedly, the bearing area would be reduced, but also better lubed. And 1" pins with similar loading seems to be common enough in that size loader.
rScotty

 

[Solidoak]

Solidoak. The most common term is ball sockets. The old one
needs to be torched out and a new one welded in. I have ordered new ones from Baum Hydraulics Corp. Part no. 179136. They are very similar to the originals and fit well. If you know someone with a torch and welder it is about a hour job.

What kind of shape is the lower pivot joint on your machine. I have replaced way more of them compared to arm joints.

Dynamic, you hit the nail on the head. It's a ball joint like you mentioned with a standard 1 inch pin. Thanks for the part number and link. I didn't see any picture of the item on the website so I'm wondering if there is a grease nipple included as well? My dad will be doing the welding(thanks dad). Any tips for making the job easier? I'm assuming you leave the pin in the joint and I dont think the heat will be a problem as in welding standard bushings from binding. I'm also curious on how you align the joint?

The central joint appears to be in bad shape so I assume these are the same ball joints and will need to be replaced too. I'm also curious to know if you have the continental 4 cylinder gasoline engine. If so, did you ever need to replace the oil filter and engine starter?

Thanks for the help.

 

[rScotty]

That's what I'd do....leave the pin in for line-up purposes and weld the ball joint solid. Might want to knock the pin out when done. Not before finishing, but while everything is hot.
After all, if it doesn't work you are no worse off than before.
As for greasing, I've seen pins drilled the longways that have a zerk in one end. The right one of those might at kind might e of those might line up with the bushing.
luck, rScotty

 

[dynamic industries 110]

The oil filter is a Wix 51335 I think. A Case 1830 gas skidsteer uses the same one. The starter is a D9E78 or a D8E121 for renault. The 78 is shorter and a little higher torque. Both are hard to find. I got lucky and bought 50 new ones from a surplus place a few years ago.

 

[Solidoak]

The oil filter is a Wix 51335 I think. A Case 1830 gas skidsteer uses the same one. The starter is a D9E78 or a D8E121 for renault. The 78 is shorter and a little higher torque. Both are hard to find. I got lucky and bought 50 new ones from a surplus place a few years ago.

Sent PM.

 

[Solidoak]

The oil filter is a Wix 51335 I think. A Case 1830 gas skidsteer uses the same one. The starter is a D9E78 or a D8E121 for renault. The 78 is shorter and a little higher torque. Both are hard to find. I got lucky and bought 50 new ones from a surplus place a few years ago.

I was looking at the specs for the ball sockets and they appear to be sold in two different parts (ie ball seperate from the socket), do these come apart and how would one go about doing this?

Appreciate the help so far from all of you guys here.

 

[chris07732]

Solidoak, dynamic industries 110: I have an older Swinger 100 also. Love the machine, currently rebuilding the Renault Continental engine. Looking for an operation manual for the machine, I have a parts manual. Could either of you describe what is the purpose of the "Neutral Start lever" There is an ignition interlock switch on it, but what is it's mechanical function.

 

[Solidoak]

Solidoak, dynamic industries 110: I have an older Swinger 100 also. Love the machine, currently rebuilding the Renault Continental engine. Looking for an operation manual for the machine, I have a parts manual. Could either of you describe what is the purpose of the "Neutral Start lever" There is an ignition interlock switch on it, but what is it's mechanical function.

Not sure what you are talking about when you say "neutral start lever". Can you take a pic? Send me pm if you need operating manual for Renault engine... I don't have anything for the swinger except the parts manual and if any one needs it I will give it to you at a reasonable deal. You can pm me.

 

[chris07732]

I've attached a pic of the control lever and the page from the parts manual. I'm not sure what are the mechanical functions of the control. Electrically, it interlocks with the ignition, but why? Is there supposed to be a seat switch also? The electrical functions have long since been bypassed, I'm rebuilding the Renault engine and trying to restore machine to normal operations

 

[Solidoak]

View attachment 353602View attachment 353603
I've attached a pic of the control lever and the page from the parts manual. I'm not sure what are the mechanical functions of the control. Electrically, it interlocks with the ignition, but why? Is there supposed to be a seat switch also? The electrical functions have long since been bypassed, I'm rebuilding the Renault engine and trying to restore machine to normal operations

I don't know what that is. It appears as if it serves the same function as the fwd and rv brake pedal and put the pump into neutral... It might have a safety feature that doesn't allow the ignition to turn unless the lever is in the neutral position.

I would call A/O forklift (hummerbee) located in Michigan and ask for mike (the swinger model specialist).

 

[dynamic industries 110]

The lever serves two functions. It pushes a microswitch to allow the circuit to the starter sylenoid to connect and it holds the foot pedal in the neutral position. I the lever has adjustments on it to get everything to engage correctly. The wiring diagram in the parts book shows the switch and wiring. The wires are probably just fastened together with a little bolt and taped up. Their was no seat switch.

 

[hardinfarm]

need to find ph# for the swinger manufacturing plant to buy some parts

 

[bcp]

need to find ph# for the swinger manufacturing plant to buy some parts

Swinger loader Sales : Swinger of Michigan, LLC - Swinger loaders :: Home

Bruce

 

[doublejack]

Solidoak. The most common term is ball sockets. The old one needs to be torched out and a new one welded in. I have ordered new ones from Baum Hydraulics Corp. Part no. 179136. They are very similar to the originals and fit well. If you know someone with a torch and welder it is about a hour job.

What kind of shape is the lower pivot joint on your machine. I have replaced way more of them compared to arm joints.

Hello Dynamic Industries:
Interesting that your "handle" is the name of the original manufacturer of the Swinger. If you see this reply, could you send me a private message about how I can contact you? Appreciate it! thanks!