Old vs New Equivalence?

Klorinth · Apr 25, 2008

I need some help understanding how to look at old and new models and know what I can compare. What do I compare an '80's 318 to? Or how about a 445?

I am looking at all different models trying to find the right one for my needs. But... in order for me to explain to my wife why an older model might be better than that new LA 135 in HD with a warrentee...

I need to be able to show her where the older model might have more torque, stronger frame, better engine, etc. Problem is that I am too new to tractors to be able to do this.

Any suggestions?

Ps. For those of you that have not seen one of my few posts... I am looking for something that can handle regular use for relative rough mowing 2-3 acres, snowblowing +140' driveway(gravel), occasional hauling and maybe pushing. I also do not have a shop to work in yet, nor tools. It is a learn and buy as I go situation.

TimS · Apr 25, 2008

If you are settled on Deere, I would recommened asking that same question in the "late model" forum at Weekend Freedom Machines.

Also, don't buy a Deere from a big box store - the same model is available at the same price at your Deere dealer; they will likely have done a better job assembling it, and will be happier about taking care of you if you have any problems.

Tim

Whitey · Apr 25, 2008

Older machines are better.......check out some web pages that sell used equipment and look at the popular models....the cost on a similar one new will make you faint. I own a JD 425 AWS parts are still available and it was half the cost of new.

Klorinth · Apr 25, 2008

Can I compare a JD 425 AWS to say an X340 AWS? Or is it an X540?

This is my problem. If I look at a JD 265, what can I compare it to that is new on the dealers floor?

I know the machines that I like from just a quick look... 318, 445, 755, 790, etc. But can I compare them to the new models? LA's, X's, 23xx, etc.

What can I say? I'm a total Newbie

mred · Apr 25, 2008

Maybe I can help as I went through something similar I think. I own a 318 and like it. I bought a 445 for my father some years back which is how I ended up with the 318. I went looking for something for myself for another property I own a couple of years ago. I did not spend every weekend looking but I did ask dealers to keep a look out as I wanted a 318, 445, 455 etc machine. No one ever called. Around here they are not easy to find used. I looked in the local papers, machine finder etc. I did find one a couple hundred miles away but it was not cheap and I was concerned traveling that distance committed me in a way. Then I found this forum. After reading a great deal and learning from the very knowledgable peoplehere I ended up buying new. I did look at the JD X series etc. I looked at Orange and there were some nice machines there. I grew up being the owner / operator of a JD B so green was the only way for me to go. If I can suggest one thing it is don't wait for the used because having is much more fun than wanting.

Whitey · Apr 25, 2008

I do not know what to tel you....in my opinion the older machines are made up from heavier components and materials that is why the last so long. My JD 425 AWS is a wll build machine and will last years to come. My "92" 770 is the same way. The cost for the machining of parts and the raw materials was different than today. Go to tractorhouse.com or the Deere web site and look at the used machines and then look at the same size and the cost difference will make you faint.

Whitey · Apr 25, 2008

I just read your post again.....rough mowing for 2 - 3 acres??? how much seat time do you want??? Snow blowing 140' of drive instead of plow??? Once again what your describing maybe too much for a 445 a good unit to look at (if you can find one) is a JD 455 diesel. You can buy off road at a lower price and get a 60" MMM that will help with your seat time. What kind of $$$ do you want to spend?

ChuckinNH · Apr 25, 2008

The JD 318, and 445 were Deere's top of the line gas engine powered garden tractors at the time they were produced.The 445 was a little larger than the 318. The new Deere garden tractor that compares to these models is the JD X700 series. The new X500 series are more closely related to the GT265, etc. as they are belt driven, and considerably lighter.

shot_gun · Apr 25, 2008

Can I compare a JD 425 AWS to say an X340 AWS? Or is it an X540?

This is my problem. If I look at a JD 265, what can I compare it to that is new on the dealers floor?

I know the machines that I like from just a quick look... 318, 445, 755, 790, etc. But can I compare them to the new models? LA's, X's, 23xx, etc.

What can I say? I'm a total Newbie

There are not always direct replacements on the machines in question. Say..

425AWS would be closley asosiated with the X724 not identical engines but pretty close on everything else. I would sell an X540 with someone with a 318 that just wanted to mow grass nothing to special but if they were into three point hitch and rear pto then we woud go to a X700 series. A 445 was replaced by the X485 and then the X720. Both X's have more horsepower but all are fuel injected gas liquid cooled engines with similar chassis. The 790 is replaced with the 3005. Just the stickers changed. The 755 is close to the 2520. LA's are most closley related to the STX models, X300's are closley related to the LT lawn tractors. X500's back to the GT/GX-300 series.

I would replace a 265(17hp) with a X500(25hp)/48" deck because both have similar chassis. No x340AWS

X324/48" is sweet but no match for the 425AWS or X485 AWS ect.

Klorinth · Apr 25, 2008

ChuckinNH said:
The JD 318, and 445 were Deere's top of the line gas engine powered garden tractors at the time they were produced.The 445 was a little larger than the 318. The new Deere garden tractor that compares to these models is the JD X700 series. The new X500 series are more closely related to the GT265, etc. as they are belt driven, and considerably lighter.

That is exactly what I was wondering. I had a dealer tell me that if I was worried about $$$ I should just get an LA135 with blower and plan to replace it in 2 years. Otherwise I see my self needing to go up to the 790 range and I don't think I can afford that. Around here the 318 runs about $4K, 790 $9-12K.

I could get a 445 for a little over $5-6K. My worry about plowing the drive is the drifting that we can get. Friends have two machines, one to plow and one to blow. That is how they deal with it. I just don't want to spend the money on two if I can do it all with one... Thoughts?

Klorinth · Apr 25, 2008

Thank you all very much this is what I was hoping to hear. I will spend some time tonight looking back over what is available and doing the numbers.

This is not a simple thing to do right!

Klorinth · Apr 26, 2008

Ok...

My wife is having a hard time seeing how it might be worth it to buy used considering what used can cost us, with no warrentee. Here are a few machines that have been up for sale near us:

GT265=$2500
L110=$1800
140=$2000
345=$9800
445=$5500 My preference
318=$3-5K
316=$2700
755=$9800 I like this as well
790=$14K
955=$15K

Now if the 445 can be compared to the X700's that might make the price look better. I still need to find a blower though. The 318 is appealing only if a I can get it with a blower for $4K, the X500's deffinitely cost more than that. There is no way I would be able to talk her into the 755 though, even though it comes with a 60"MMM and blower. She would not see any future uses for it.

I'm beginning to dislike this process.

I think it is all coming down to the fact that I would have to do all of the maintenance and pay for major repairs. That is her fear. I have to admit to a little fear as well when it comes to a major breakdown. I do not like the idea of putting out $5K and blowing the engine a year later. Or something along those lines. We both come from poor families and have endless memories of beat up cars, etc.

ChuckinNH · Apr 26, 2008

My brother uses a GT 265 to blow snow here in NH, and was happy with it the last time I asked. He gets some drifting as his development is pretty open, but doesn't have much of a rise in his driveway. I would be much happier with a garden tractor in the 800 lb range (bare) for those chores. I've owned two Simplicity tractors, a 71125, and the 20hp Legacy I have now. The Legacy has just enough weight (= to JD 445) to make a very noticable difference in traction, and stability. I haven't used it for blowing snow, but with the limited slip differential, and tire chains, I am guessing it would be fine. 4wd is better, though some guys really like their 4 wheel steering JD's for snow chores.

It can be discouraging trying to choose the right thing, especially if you don't have a lot of confidence in how something used has been maintained. These things are kind of expensive to be guessing on, and I feel your pain!
Hang in there.

Klorinth · Apr 27, 2008

ChuckinNH,

What's the weight on the Legacy? I'm curious about how much I should have for plowing. It's looking like I'm going to have to buy something with a plow to start with and then find a blower to go with it. Not to many machines are being sold with the blowers around here. People seem to be keeping the blowers and just changing machines.

I haven't been able to find a JD 455 yet. A couple of the dealers have said that it is too early in the season yet, more will come in as trades as the summer gets closer. I may need to wait a little. I am going to go see a Simplicity Sunstar in a couple of days though. It has a blower and tiller as well as the MMM. Worth a look even if the price is high at $5800.

I want to go and see the JD445 I mentioned previously if that would be a good one for plowing. How much weight would you recommend adding to a 445? Are wheel weights and chains enough, or should I be looking at suitcases? I have had one of the dealers here tell me to look at the X500 with a plow or the 2305 with FEL. I just can't afford the 2305, but does the X500 have the weight?

I should clarify the snowblowing thing. My driveway is in the middle of very open prairie. From my driveway I can look almost 5 miles in all directions without being blocked by much. I am just starting to plant wind breaks. This will cause a large amount of drifting initially. Plowing 3' drifts at 5 AM is not appealing when it's -30 outside.

Thanks for all of the help everyone.
Rayan

ChuckinNH · Apr 27, 2008

The catalog says that the Legacy weighs from 830 (2wd smallest engine) to 1131 (4wd diesel engine) with the mower deck, but my dealer said that the Legacy weighed around 1300 with the deck. I have run the Legacy side by side with a Kubota BX22 without the loader, and backhoe on, and I do know the Kubota sank deeper in the damp spots (getting scientific here)

I would think that the JD445, Simplicity Sunstar, and Legacy, and the Cub Cadets of the same size would all weigh very close to the same amount. I would try loading the rear tires with rimguard, or winter windshield washer fluid, and planning on chains. The limited slip differential combined with the differential lock give my Simplicity excellent traction for a two wheel drive. The Landlord that I had before this one was about the same weight as a JD x500, and I needed to load the rear tires to get the traction I needed, and it was still not as good as the Legacy. I have a friend that has had a couple of Sunstars ( Simplicity was big in this area for a while) and had great luck with both of them. I had 1500 hours on my Landlord, and it was still fine when I traded it in for the Legacy.

LBrown59 · Apr 28, 2008

ChuckinNH said:
The JD 318, and 445 were Deere's top of the line gas engine powered garden tractors at the time they were produced.The 445 was a little larger than the 318. The new Deere garden tractor that compares to these models is the JD X700 series. The new X500 series are more closely related to the GT265, etc. as they are belt driven, and considerably lighter.

So then this would mean the Cub Cadet 2500 and 3000 series are closer to the JD x700s than they are to the JDx500s.

LBrown59 · Apr 28, 2008

Klorinth said:
. Around here the 318 runs about $4K, 790 $9-12K.
I could get a 445 for a little over $5-6K. Thoughts?

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk286/lb59/100_2313.jpg
$6300 without mower. This one is brand new.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk286/lb59/100_2316.jpg
$4525 without tiller and front blade.

I would be looking real hard for a used BX1500 or BX1800 series.
My local dealer had new BX1850s on sale for $6945
without attachments or mower.
I'd check the dealers out good for a similar deal on a new BX1850 too.