Oil Pan Problem

[3930dave]

If you can secure the tiller so it doesn't move, I'd use heat (propane torch is enough) on the plug, immediately followed by vicegrips and about 5' of pipe. Really stubborn stuff I'll use heat then spray immediately after with freeze-it spray - you're using thermal shock to break corrosion.

Even a 100# person on the end of 5' of pipe can exert a lot of torque. I took a hitch ball off once that had been air gunned on with hard steel wire (I kid not) wound into the threads - I used a Craftsman breaker bar with 8' of pipe on it. I honestly thought I was going to break the bar, but it held, and the ball came off....

Try tightening the plug. Two reasons:

1) I'll often try this move on difficult fittings, to help break corrosion.

2) Long shot, but I'm beginning to wonder if that plug on the other side is left-hand threaded ? If so, it might have been done to counter engine vibration torque. If you hit the Briggs site with that engine number and dig through the parts section, you may find if you have 1 or 2 PNs for those plugs.

Strange that these oil plugs are that seized. Either some gorilla put 'em on, or there is a substantial amount of corrosion in place. After that fight, I'd be putting the plug(s) back in with good quality (meaning the pink stuff) teflon tape, to negate future corrosion problems.

Rgds, D.

 

[flyerdan]

That has a mechanical governor that is driven off the camshaft, so that could be the plastic gear that won't let the tubing go. Not sure if it has an oil slinger as well, you might try rotating the crank back and forth a couple degrees while trying to dislodge the tube. That will move the plastic gears back and forth a bit so if that's what's holding it up you should feel it. I know, you kind of run out of hands doing this, trying to grip the tube and rotate the mill and hold a light. A helper comes in handy sometimes, if available.

 

[stanj]

ok,, so what crank are you referring to?

i am not sure I have a tool to reach down into the oil pan area.
needle nose plies I have are too wide.

i am pretty much on my own trying to work on this..

thanks

That has a mechanical governor that is driven off the camshaft, so that could be the plastic gear that won't let the tubing go. Not sure if it has an oil slinger as well, you might try rotating the crank back and forth a couple degrees while trying to dislodge the tube. That will move the plastic gears back and forth a bit so if that's what's holding it up you should feel it. I know, you kind of run out of hands doing this, trying to grip the tube and rotate the mill and hold a light. A helper comes in handy sometimes, if available.

 

[3930dave]

Try taking some solid steel wire (fencing wire, even picture hanging wire that is solid), and make a small hook at the end. Sharpen the hook a bit so it can puncture the tubing that you are after. Try fishing with that, if you have no room for pliers.

My guess is Dan is talking about the crank(shaft) inside the engine - rocking it back and forth a bit so it lets go of the tube. Safety first - disconnect the spark plug wire by rotating then pulling on the spark plug boot.

If your tiller has an external drive shaft or chain, you can do this by manually moving the shaft or drive gear, with the tiller in Neutral. If the drivetrain in enclosed, you may have to put it in gear, and rock the tiller tines back and forth.

If one of the engine gears has snagged the drain tube, you shouldn't have to move very far to release the tube (Dan's point about a coupla degrees of crank rotation).

Again - safety first - disconnect the spark plug cable(s?) before doing anything further.

Rgds, D.

 

[stanj]

i had to move the tiller out of the shed to work on the oil plugs the other day. i had to put it in neutral to move it and then into drive position..but i have not tried to look inside since then
there is not l not of room via the removed plug or looking down the oil fill hole..can't see a lot..
i don't think it has an external shaft.

i was thinking of ordering Forceps?
but first, need to see inside ..

this is a site showing some of the tiller engine parts
Diagrams

 

[stanj]

checked it today. i took off both oil fill plastic caps. again just like the oil plugs, there are two ..not sure why you need two oil fill holes (one on each side)?
took out the one oil plug that I was able to remove the other day. i have a small pen light..i can look through the oil plug hole and see the other plug that is still inserted (the one I cannot budge!). cannot see anything else.

the light is small enough to fit over the oil fill hole. i mounted it on the one oil fill hole and went to the other side and looked down into the the second oil fill hole..i can see the light from the other side but not plastic tube. I took a long steel wire and inserted it down into the hole to fish around but cannot grab onto anything..,,

not sure what to try next...

 

[flyerdan]

They put dual filler/drain plugs in them so they can be placed in enclosures and still be serviced without removing the engine. If you can't see the broken off piece of tubing, it might have rolled to the middle. You might try putting some of the used oil* back in and tipping it to the side to see if it will flush out the drain hole. Providing, of course, that the tube is small enough to fit through the hole, which is 1/4"npt. That's easy enough to check with the existing hose. Chances are it won't flush out like a leaf through a culvert, but it will get it close to the drain where you can get at it with a wire probe and work it out. Might take a few attempts at flushing to get it oriented correctly.
*I say used oil as you don't want to risk contaminating good oil for this; old fuel or solvent would work as well.

 

[stanj]

ok,,,is it possible the plastic is stuck on something inside?

i think the tube end that is in there is too wide to come out the drain plug. It barely fit going into the oil fill hole.. it looks like this
Kerosene Heater Manual Siphon Pump

 

[flyerdan]

Yeah, that's definitely too big to come out the drain. It's quite possible that the tube is stuck to the bottom and side of the case through adhesion of oil residue that prevents it from rolling around like it would if everything was dry. At this point I'd just take off the pulley, clutch, or whatever drives the tiller and remove the side cover and get it out. From the design diagrams, this can be done without disturbing any of the internal components, and if one is careful you might be able to reuse the seal and gasket. I did that on a beater lawnmower last year, wire brush the rust off the shaft so it didn't tear the seal and used a razor blade on the parts of the gasket that wanted to stick to one side. Worst case is having to replace the gasket if it comes off in pieces, and the seal, which should be replaced if you have to buy a gasket just to be on the safe side.

 

[stanj]

ok,,i am not great with engine work....
i may check with a neighbor who works and a rental unlimited,,,or a local mower shop..
not sure it would cost?