oil cooler

[5dphilip]

Worked the pt1430 pretty hard all day moving dirt. At the end of the day it couldn't make it up the car trailer ramps. Oil in reservoir was pretty hot. I noticed the oil cooler only runs through the pto side. Should i put a jumper on my pto connectors and run the pto so the oil can run through the cooler? Anyone else have this problem? The 15w40 looked like true hydraulic oil dripping from reservoir.

 

[J_J]

Does your tram pump have a case hose to dump old hot bypass fluid?

On my 1445, the oil trough the radiator. is wheel motors drain lines, tram case flushing fluid.

You could re-route any fluid through the cooler. You need a manifold to do that where all used flow connects at the manifold and goes through the radiator.

Your wheel motors get fresh fluid as the charge pump supplies makeup fluid at about 10% or tram pump GPM's.

Some wheel motors have a drain line and other do not.

 

[5dphilip]

Does your tram pump have a case hose to dump old hot bypass fluid?

On my 1445, the oil trough the radiator. is wheel motors drain lines, tram case flushing fluid.

You could re-route any fluid through the cooler. You need a manifold to do that where all used flow connects at the manifold and goes through the radiator.

Your wheel motors get fresh fluid as the charge pump supplies makeup fluid at about 10% or tram pump GPM's.

Some wheel motors have a drain line and other do not.

I don't know as i am not a hydraulic guy and I'm still learning a lot. I will look at the schematics later. As far as routing i was just goin to put a hose from coupler to coupler on the pto to see if that helps. Your idea seems like a permanet fix that i might try if the pto loop hose works. I was hoping i wasnt the only one who had this problem. I really dont want it to be the pump or something else really expensive.

 

[MossRoad]

Not sure how your 1430 is set up... on my 425, the main PTO pump is always pumping. It can't be turned off because its directly coupled to the engine. It flows from the pump back to the tank constantly, unless I turn on the electric PTO switch. That activates a solenoid valve, that re-directs the flow to the hoses on the FEL arms, through the implement, and back to the tank. If yours is set up the same way, then a coupler house would make no difference, unless your cooler is located some point after the solenoid valve, and doesn't come into play unless the PTO switch is turned on.

Also, as I recall, my 425 has the cooler in the tram circuit, so only the tram oil is being cooled. It think there's been some discussion about changes since mine was manufactured back in 2001.

 

[J_J]

You might be able to remove the PTO hose to tank , and plug the tank port and route it through the radiator.

It does seem dumb to run the PTO pump 100 % for the time.

An electric driven clutch, coupled to the PTO pump could have been engineered for that purpose, as most of us do not use the PTO very much,

If I remember right, my PTO pump cost about $335.

My steering and lift pmp cost about $135.

Your 425 hyd flow is 8 GPM, , and it takes 15.8 HP to pump that flow at 3000 psi to the PTO implement.

 

[MossRoad]

Your 425 hyd flow is 8 GPM, , and it takes 15.8 HP to pump that flow at 3000 psi to the PTO implement.

I often wonder about that. (its 2500psi BTW). If there's no load on the implement, how much does it really take? Does it always get up to 2500PSI or only when there's a heavy load? Someday I'll spring for a pressure gauge and some fittings and find out.

 

[J_J]

If you are not using the PTO, the fluid is bypassing straight to the tank with little resistance, maybe 20 to 50 psi.

A simple low pressure can tell you the story.

The load will dictate the pressure and HP developed

 

[MossRoad]

It sure heats up, though, weather your're using it or not. In winter, I'll start it up and let it run at 1/3 throttle while I hand shovel the narrow walks and steps. In 15 minutes of just sitting there, the reservoir gets hot to the touch.

 

[J_J]

Well, you do have three hyd pumps pumping all the time, even at idle.

I believe the charge pump is pumping fluid at about 359 to 450 psi.

Fluid is running through the steering valve and the lift valve.

The tram pump will then pump fluid upon command..

 

[woodlandfarms]

I think before you get yourself into lots of costs of running hoses you need to find out what the real problem is. Is your hydraulic oil indeed too hot? A simple laser temp reader or some such device is going to go a long way into resolving your problems.

What is hot to you may not be that hot to oil. You could have a heat related bypass issue, a valve just barely opened but as your oil thins you get into issues.

You could have a radiator / cooling issue that no matter how much oil you pump through you never get it cool enough.

You have a problem but moving hoses around is not, in my opinion, the best solution nor the most cost effective.

As a side note, one of my things on my maintenance list this year is going to be removing my hydraulic oil cooler and flushing it out. It is relatively new, but last year I had a thermostat fail on my Deutz engine, and when I took it out I decided to flush my oil cooler. Not sure what went down as I did both at once (the thermostat and the flushing of the engine oil cooler) but my engine now runs markedly lower temp wise. In my feeble broken mind I see these oil cooler being hot, and then being shut off. The oil drains back down to the tank, leaving a film on the hot metal that just bakes on, creating layer after layer of sludge.

Then again, I actually do live in a fantasy land so take my opinions with a grain of salt.

 

[Marks481]

I actually do live in a fantasy land so take my opinions with a grain of salt.

Come on, you only live in fantasy land half the year.

Although Washington is taking steps closer and closer to that every year. As Seattle goes, so goes the state...

 

[5dphilip]

Very good points. So what is everyones oil temp in reservoir after running the pt for a decent amount of time? I'll post mine tomorrow

 

[J_J]

The temp is going to depend on what you are dong such as bush hogging up hill, etc

 

[woodlandfarms]

I haven't measured mine in a long time but 170 seems to come to mind. Above 210 you are cooking oil.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Come on, you only live in fantasy land half the year.

Although Washington is taking steps closer and closer to that every year. As Seattle goes, so goes the state...

Yup, Seattle is San Francisco. Then again, so is Portland. I guess if voting power were based on how many square feet you can occupy before you run into someone else things would be different.

 

[Raw Dodge]

In my feeble broken mind I see these oil cooler being hot, and then being shut off. The oil drains back down to the tank, leaving a film on the hot metal that just bakes on, creating layer after layer of sludge.

Then again, I actually do live in a fantasy land so take my opinions with a grain of salt.

I wouldn't worry about a layer of sludge lining inside the oil cooler, it's highly unlikely ,oil and hydraulic fluid are stable to over 300 degrees as far as baking go...synthetics go over 400...it's unlikely that you hit 200 in the hydro oil cooler,probably 250-275 in extreme conditions in the engine oil cooler...the only components that usually fry oil are turbochargers,and automatic transmissions,and in both cases it's abuse and neglect that are the cause,shutting a hot turbo down with no cool down from a. A full load will push the oil past 500 degrees possibly more,and even in these cases it takes a while to coke the bearings to the point of causing excess wear and a problem. The torque convertor in an automatic can hit 300 degrees plus in 20 seconds of brake standing at stall speed...again that screaming fluid heads right from the torque convertor discharge to the cooler and you never see them varnish up,they just trap contaminates from the oil...and deposit them in the new transmission later on.

 

[woodlandfarms]

I can only defend this notion on My Deutz. The oil cooler is mounted to the top of the engine over the valve train. It gets nice and hot when the engine is turned off.

Wouldn't argue on the oil cooler for the hydraulics, although again on my machine located above the engine, but there is at least a 2" airgap.

 

[joshlee]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the oil that goes into my radiator cooler fan comes from the power steering pump after it cycled through the bank valve bank.

Not sure how your 1430 is set up... on my 425, the main PTO pump is always pumping. It can't be turned off because its directly coupled to the engine. It flows from the pump back to the tank constantly, unless I turn on the electric PTO switch. That activates a solenoid valve, that re-directs the flow to the hoses on the FEL arms, through the implement, and back to the tank. If yours is set up the same way, then a coupler house would make no difference, unless your cooler is located some point after the solenoid valve, and doesn't come into play unless the PTO switch is turned on.

Also, as I recall, my 425 has the cooler in the tram circuit, so only the tram oil is being cooled. It think there's been some discussion about changes since mine was manufactured back in 2001.

 

[joshlee]

After mower grass on a 85 degree day for about half an hour (engine at full throttle) the Shell Rottella 15w-40 was 147 degrees.

It sure heats up, though, weather your're using it or not. In winter, I'll start it up and let it run at 1/3 throttle while I hand shovel the narrow walks and steps. In 15 minutes of just sitting there, the reservoir gets hot to the touch.

 

[Raw Dodge]

After mower grass on a 85 degree day for about half an hour (engine at full throttle) the Shell Rottella 15w-40 was 147 degrees.

You want it to heat up,and run hot but not overheat.Like your coolant temp on your car has a sweet spot so does a hydro system. You want enough temperature to boil the moisture off the oil occasionally. .I'd say 180 -190 for 20 minutes is plenty, yet you don't want it 220 plus either,as seal and hose life are shortened as is pump and motor life if you go past that.