MinnesotaEric
Super Member
Only on start-up when the trans-hydro oil is cold do I experience noises like gurgling. Ask what hydro oil the dealer uses. Kioti's stuff is a compliant J20C and J20D mix.
NX4510 Noisy HST---Normal?
- Thread starter justman777
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justman777
Platinum Member
I bought the tractor used with about 57 hours on it, so I assume (possibly incorrectly) it was still the factory fill. Since then, I've taken it back to the dealer to fix the air conditioner mixing valve to resolve the windows fogging up, and to change out the hydro filter housing. The housing was an attempt to resolve the noise, as another member indicated this seemed to resolve a similar noise issue. Unfortunately, the dealer had ordered the wrong part, but the technician had already drained the HST fluid, so we put the old filter housing back on, new filter, and filled with the dealer's house brand. Per the container it was in, the house brand was a "premium" hydraulic fluid. Not sure if it's compliant with J20C or J20D. Regardless, the noise is still there, but "may" have subsided somewhat.
The dealer ordered the new filter housing for me, and I plan to put it on this weekend. I had planned on re-using the existing fluid since it has less than 20 hours on it, and should still be good for a few more hours. If it still makes noise, I suppose I could always drain and fill with something else. Any recommendations in this regard?
Eric---I've watched more than a few of your winter videos regarding the cold startup noise, and the noise is very, very similar. However, mine is there all the time, but definitely not as loud----kinda like an annoying background noise. I tend to notice it a lot less with higher engine RPMs, but that may be because of the engine noise covering it up.
BTW, the air conditioner mixing valve fix I mentioned above works great. I can actually set a decent temperature in the cab now, and my windows don't fog up!
MinnesotaEric
Super Member
If the oil level is correct, if for no other reason than peace of mind, pull a sample and get it tested as to what it is. Perhaps some homer put in hydro oil, not trans-hydro oil. I'd definitely ask your dealer what is up with the whining noise. If it is similar to my cold starts, that is the pump cavitating and you may have a bad pump , or the wrong oil installed. If I were you, I'd step up efforts to get to the bottom of the noise.
Overtaxed
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2016
- Messages
- 371
- Location
- Gaffney, SC
- Tractor
- Kioti NX6010, JD 2720 w/46BH, Honda Pioneer 1000
I am the member who had the hydro issue on the NX. However, I'm not sure this sound similar to me. Are your hydraulics "jumpy"? Start the tractor and lift the FEL as soon as it starts running, does it come up smoothly? If so, it's not the issue I was having. That was the filter housing, and yes, they are backordered and have been for months now because it was a known fault on some of the NX's. A lot of them had the problem I had, apparently; I had to wait about 2 months to get the hydro filter housing. Since that repair, I've put another 100 hours on the machine and it's not come back, so, for me, that was the issue.
Open your hydro fill plug when the machine is running and listen closely. Do you hear air/bubbles? I did, and it was distinctive. Also, I could actually see tiny bubbles in the fluid when I opened the fill port and shined a light in there.
Best of luck to you!
Open your hydro fill plug when the machine is running and listen closely. Do you hear air/bubbles? I did, and it was distinctive. Also, I could actually see tiny bubbles in the fluid when I opened the fill port and shined a light in there.
Best of luck to you!
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justman777
Platinum Member
My hydraulics on the FEL are a bit "jumpy" on startup and at idle, but it's more of a "miss". I'd equate it to the pump hitting an air pocket and it stalls the hydraulics for just a split second. It doesn't jump all the way up....more intermittent. If I recall correctly, when I raise it at idle, it may "miss" two or three times before it gets to full height. I did look in the fill plug with a flashlight and did see bubbles. It also sounds like a wind tunnel in there (constant wind-like noise), but I don't know if it's normal or not. Did you hear anything similar in the fill port on yours?
BTW, the part number for the filter housing I received is T5210-38102. I'm not sure if the "revised" filter housing has a different part number, or if it's just "newer" with the same part number. I'll try to get the thing installed today after work If I can swing it.
Overtaxed
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2016
- Messages
- 371
- Location
- Gaffney, SC
- Tractor
- Kioti NX6010, JD 2720 w/46BH, Honda Pioneer 1000
I feel pretty confident saying, you have the same problem I did. Symptoms are near identical. And if you keep running it like this, it will get worse. Mine was always a "little jumpy", when it got colder and the machine got older, it was way worse. Last fall it was near unusable until it got warm. Now it's, as I've said before, just like my John Deere, start it, put it in gear, go. No jumps, no pauses on the FEL, none of it.
I think it's the same PN for the "new" housing. It was likely a manufacturing defect, not a bad design on the filters. Kioti knows it though, if you read my thread, when my dealer called them for a new hydro pump, they insisted we change the housing first, which, to both of us, seemed like a really odd/unlikely place for the leak to be. Darned if it wasn't though, changed it out, started it up, problem 100% resolved. We were both really surprised.
Yes, that's exactly what's happening. It's a "miss" because there's air in the line, that's what makes the sound (cavitation) and what makes the hydraulics "miss" when you run them. Mine was much worse cold than warm in the beginning; in the end, it was just a mess (if you watch my video, you'll see it, it was barely usable). So whatever it is that's not right in the housing, as time passed, it got worse. One thing, and a positive note, once it was fixed, my tractor was better than ever. It always was a little "jumpy" on the hydro when I got it, I didn't recognize it as "wrong" because it was my first hydro tractor and it wasn't that bad, it just wasn't totally smooth. When I got a JD hydro a few years later is when I recognized "something isn't right on the Kioti" because it was so smooth. Now, after the fix, the Kioti is just as smooth as the JD, so the problem was always there, just not as noticeable in the beginning. Mine got really bad around 300 hours, IIRC.
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justman777
Platinum Member
Well, I'm hoping changing out the filter housing resolves the issue. It's just like you said though...odd that a filter housing would be the cause and resolve it. There's not a lot too them that I can see would cause an air leak, just the two o-rings and the seal on the filter.
If it quits raining here today, I'll crawl under the tractor this afternoon and see what I can do.
If it quits raining here today, I'll crawl under the tractor this afternoon and see what I can do.
Overtaxed
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2016
- Messages
- 371
- Location
- Gaffney, SC
- Tractor
- Kioti NX6010, JD 2720 w/46BH, Honda Pioneer 1000
There must have been a flaw in the casting, or perhaps something not flat enough. IDK, trust me, my dealer and I were both totally thinking "this is a waste of time" when we changed it (Kioti demanded we do that before they'd send any more parts). And we were dead wrong. We even looked close at the old housing, the only thing we could see is some paint on the sealing surface that MIGHT have been in the way, but, honestly, I don't think so (and it wouldn't explain why it was getting worse). All I can figure, there's a batch of housings out there that have some sort of weak spot in them that eventually wears though enough to let air in (and not let oil out, the other strange thing, no leaking at all, but letting air in like crazy).
I'd suggest you go at this thinking "this is gonna fix it" because, I suspect it will. My dealer and I were both thinking "this is a waste of time" and were really pissy and not happy about doing the work. Would have been a better 2 hours if we'd been in the right frame of mind.
It's a royal PITA to get the banjo type fittings disconnected BTW. Just be prepared, that's the hardest part; it wasn't that bad, but it was a PITA.
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justman777
Platinum Member
Got home and started right in working on changing out the filter housing. You were right... The banjo fittings were tough to get off and back on. Everything else was a piece of cake. Wound up re-using the same oil (drained into a brand new clean 15 gallon container), and used (stole?) my wife's Whataburger cup as a dipper to transfer the oil from the container back to the tractor.
Bottom line, changing out the filter housing does NOT appear to have worked. When I started it up, I cycled the loader a few times, moved backwards and forwards a little bit, and didn't feel any hesitation or hear any noise. Thought I was good! Decided I would go out and cut some grass, and when I throttled back from PTO speed after cutting for an hour, I heard my noise start up again. I left the engine running and opened the reservoir cap and found it full of bubbles.
I've tightened up every suction side bolt I could find. Short of some special DIY testing technique, the only thing I know to do is take it to the dealer and let them have it for a few weeks of troubleshooting. I'd really hate to do that...
Call me disappointed. :-(
Bottom line, changing out the filter housing does NOT appear to have worked. When I started it up, I cycled the loader a few times, moved backwards and forwards a little bit, and didn't feel any hesitation or hear any noise. Thought I was good! Decided I would go out and cut some grass, and when I throttled back from PTO speed after cutting for an hour, I heard my noise start up again. I left the engine running and opened the reservoir cap and found it full of bubbles.
I've tightened up every suction side bolt I could find. Short of some special DIY testing technique, the only thing I know to do is take it to the dealer and let them have it for a few weeks of troubleshooting. I'd really hate to do that...
Call me disappointed. :-(
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justman777
Platinum Member
Got to thinking early this morning about other possibilities, and recalled the tech who last worked on the tractor had given the hydro filter a good twist with a wrench when he put it on. I put mine on hand tight, just like I would a car oil filter. Should I give it a turn with a wrench as well, or were they meant to be put on hand-tight?