Newbie here, not afraid to ask for advice and opinions on a new tractor, etc

[jenkinsph]

If you go with a tlb I would recommend the hydraulic auger on the hoe, much easier to see where you are drilling the hole. Much easier to reach into corners. The hoe buckets and auger are quick attach too. Here is a picture of the PA30 on the 110.

 

[bspeedy]

Seems to me that 100 grand in tractor budget and the goal of self-sufficiency point to:
1. zero turn for mowing
2. 50-60 hp cabbed TLB - backhoe is extremely handy for lots of things. Also it's nice to have a backhoe on a dedicated machine sometimes
3. 30-40 hp open station compact for smaller jobs

You will likely want two rotary cutters - one each for both the larger and smaller tractors. Also, multiple tractors minimize the need to change implements so frequently.

I like Kubota and New Holland, but you will have a hard time finding a bad tractor these days.

 

[bspeedy]

Double post - sorry.

 

[TomSeller]

If you go with a tlb I would recommend the hydraulic auger on the hoe, much easier to see where you are drilling the hole. Much easier to reach into corners. The hoe buckets and auger are quick attach too. Here is a picture of the PA30 on the 110.

That sure looks nice. I have my hydatulic auger on my FEL and use my backhoe to sling in my 500 lb concrete posts. Works well for me, but I like your setup.

 

[Coyote machine]

You're a lab rat that has no idea what you're getting into. :confused3: I've been there for a good portion of my working career, so I know of what I speak. Worked for Mallinckrodt Chemical, Texas Instruments, DOE, etc.
I can tell you that a cab will be a must for you based on not liking hot or cold. 8 hours on any size tractor, and you'll be toast. 1/2 those hours is a good day, and a hard worked one at that.

You should talk to your neighbors about the equipment they rely on and who to buy from and who not to buy from. With all you will have going on you'd need to clone yourself several times just to keep a handle on all you want to do, need to do, and WILL be able to get done.
You will be able to hire contractors with boom lifts for construction/lumber lifting, etc. Same with initial field prep - stump removal, grading, etc.
It will take more than research and willingness to learn what you need to, and that takes time. For instance, in 2009 I bought a 35HP non-cabbed Kioti DK-35 with HST and subframe backhoe. I learned from 350 hours of use in a year- a LOT of time in the learning curve - that I needed more lift capacity, and thus a stronger loader. I traded up to the DK-40, in less than a year, kept the hoe, and ended up with 40HP and 2700 pound lift capacity. Since then I have an all angle snow plow, log grapple, tree shear, bush hog, pallet forks, box blade, two rear remotes, a joystick controlled front pair of remotes to run the plow, grapple, and shear.

My point is with the extra 850+ hours put on the newer machine I have learned a lot, and still have miles to go. Your learning curve will be steep and take many many hours to gain the skills you will eventually gain from hard work in - good results out.
I'm a non-commercial hobby farmer at best- meaning I don't do things to make money, just to improve my land, and keep out of the bosses hair.

So farm out a lot of the tasks, do what you can with a Kioti in the 40-60+ range tractor, and get deliveries from liftgate trucks, or get a used skid steer too. I look around real farms near me and most have various tractors, and at least one skid steer for manure moving, etc.

I believe you'll find that no matter how much you think or want to do you will need to learn to delegate much of what you want done to others vs. trying to cover all the bases with a few machines to manage all tasks. Let some of it go and enjoy the process of the learning curve. Mother nature always throws curve balls. Start off easy and work your way up as you gain knowledge of the differences from being inside and working outside. Lab not equal to outdoors in Montana.

I'd also want to consider hiring a foreman for the ranch; someone with local knowledge of how things work, who can show you and possibly go with you to help you chose the right equipment for your specific needs. They could help you get started and eliminate a lot of newbie learning curve waste of your valuable time. They could prove invaluable to your Montana operational success.

 

[concernedcitizen]

Update​

1. mowing of grass Areas would total around 3 acres combined

1a. Decided to go with a dedicated mower (all are within my budget limits)

Option #1 would be the Kubota Z-Series Z726X-60 mower 60 deck with the Kawasaki motor to get the 3 year warranty

Option #2 would be the John Deere X739 (Full-time four-wheel drive and four-wheel steering) and a 4 year warranty standard

Option #3 would be a Hustler Z Diesel mower a 2yr no hour limit/5yr with limits and lifetime warranty are serious bonuses. There would also be dealer less than 45 minutes away a bonus

Option #4 would be the Bad Boy diesel with the 35HP Cat engine and 72 deck. The shortest factory warranty, but it痴 a diesel powered by cat (which, correct me if I知 wrong is a great thing)


I am leaning towards either options #3 as the leading candidate at this point, but do have a fall back eye on #4 due to the diesel engines and the fact that we have other diesel equipment and vehicles as well as having diesel storage tanks with a pump.


2. Brush Cutting Area would initially be roughly 20 acres followed by additional occasional for maintenance of that area as well as a limited number of new areas that would likely not exceed 1 acre in size

Going to heed the advice given and get what I want done, while they have all the construction equipment onsite (dozer, excavator, etc).

Any new clearings in the future should be minimal and should be able to be completed with ease no matter which size tractor that I end up going with (I say this based on the responses posted with a minimum of 40HP tractor)



3. Tilling Rotor tilling Area would initially be around 2 acres followed by very limited increases that would likely be less than a half-acre in size

Will again be heeding the advice posted and be going with either a 60 or 72 width attachment



4. Disk/Harrow disk No predefined area at the moment, plans would include the use of a harrow disk set for making/breaking new ground for crops (mostly) and creation of fire breaks (secondary)

Yet again going to heed the advice given and get what I want done, while they have all the construction equipment onsite (dozer, excavator, etc)

Plan to purchase a Tandem Disc Harrow attachment that can be used to keep the areas initially done from becoming a mess



5. Post hole digging and Post hole driving Would be used heavily initially and then for routine maintenance of a large fencing system

Plan to purchase a hydraulic post drivers for SSQA use (once again thanks Varmint, Terry Knight and Tom Seller for this info/recommendation, I looked into it and it certainly looks like the way to go for my needs. I estimate the number of posts in the very high hundreds or more when all is said and done



6. Front end Loader (FEL, one of the terms I actually learned from this board)
New plan is to dump the heavy lifting requirement of the pallets as that seemed to be the single item that was bumping me up tractor levels and plan to just concentrate on the other things a FEL is capable of doing, such as; gravel and sand placement/moving; moving of fallen trees/brush with a grapple attachment, etc.



7. Pulling logs

Was able to learn that all of the tractors I was interested in would fit this task



8. New Item added - Potential for winter/snow operating

Would be using the tractor with a snow blower/plow attachment to clear a roughly one-third mile long driveway. Found implements for every all the tractors that I am considering.



9. New item (no longer being considered) was the potential for later use in hay operations for the livestock that we will have

Advice here and discussions with neighbors around town, were exactly the same in that I need to get a minimum of a few hundred hours before even thinking about taking on an experience of this size and complexity



10. Paulfun9, thanks for the mention to make sure the maintenance building doors are high and wide enough. I only had 9 foot roll ups, but have since changed the tractor door set to 14 high roll ups (that large just in case within the next couple or few decades I ever graduate to a beast tractor





11. Field service technicians/Mechanics

Varmint and others (sorry for forgetting to mention everyone specifically), I have looked up some field service companies like was suggested and gotten some recommendations from neighbors. It would make it much easier, even if did cost more (I think it was mentioned like $80 an hour) than it would be for me to have them come to me rather me take off work to transport it there and back twice losing all those hours of billable work.

Tractors​

I have narrowed it down to three tractors that I am going to concentrate on heavily investigating (meaning in the next couple of months, view them in person, talk with sales people, talk with the service department, sit in them for a period longer than 5 minutes, etc.)
#1 Massey M1758 (cab) with FEL
#2 LS XR4155HC (cab) with FEL
#3 Case IH 55C CVT T4 Cab (with FEL loaded)

What changed my mind to go to the lower HP tractors?​

It was a combination of the great advice that I got from everyone who posted their opinions, recommendations and experiences (especially one person, to whom I am not sure if they want to be named, I did not ask, so I will not say, but they know who they are). As well as neighbors telling some horror stories, likely stretched to make their point, but their point sunk in with me that such powerful machines and newbies are indeed a recipe for potential disaster(s). So I am going to do the step up method and upgrade when my abilities can be above the tractors with more power.

Once again, thank you to all who took the time and put in the effort to reply.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

Hustler Z diesel with nearby service dealer would be an easy choice for me if as you said price was acceptable.

 

[IslandTractor]

Sounds like you have a workable plan. I don't think you will find yourself limited at all with the size tractors you are considering. I presume some of the tractor choice is limited by availability of dealerships in your area. There are certainly other equally good and price competitive brands out there should none of your top three work out. Good luck and don't forget to post a photo of the tractor when it finally arrives and gets dirty.

I am not very familiar with the Massey, Case or LS lines but they are similar to lines I am familiar with (Kioti) in how they market their tractors. Don't be fooled by horsepower. Look at the whole tractor and see how much horsepower you need. Case in point (and I think this is also true for the Massey), Kioti makes an equivalent line of NX cab tractors. The ONLY real difference between the 45hp, 50, 55 and 60hp versions is the engine tuning. Identical steel. They have essentially the identical engine with four different software programs running it. Looking at the Massey brochure it looks like that is the story with the 1758 and a couple of it's lower hp siblings. So, don't go gaga over horsepower alone. It is the tractor frame size, weight, 3PT, hydraulic output and loader capabilities that you should be comparing, not raw horsepower. The only real use for the extra horsepower is running PTO implements that require more hp. Unless you are looking to run bigger than six foot implements, a 48 or 54 HP version of the same tractor will do just as well as a 58hp version. Kioti has the nerve to upcharge several thousand dollars for different software. Massey is probably playing the same game. Buy the horsepower you need by looking at the implements you will run. These tractors all have the same loader etc.

One other point: You never mentioned a grapple on your list of implements. Add a 60 inch single lid grapple to your must have list. (Everything Attachments or WRLong are good sources) You cannot reasonably do the work you are planning without a grapple. If you are like the rest of us grapple owners, the grapple will spend far more time on your tractor than the standard bucket. Just do it. $2000 delivered and well spent!

 

[varmint]

Everything Attachments = good. I still think you should be considering Kubota... they didn't get to be a major player in the CUT without reason. Buy something else after you are personally informed, rather than just ignoring them. Kioti guys will probably be saying the same thing.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

Now that you're looking for a CUT... Does Case even make one? Certainly don't sell many.
If you're not seriously considering a Kubota or Kioti you missing probably the two most reliable CUT makers out there. They do have the highest customer satisfaction by far per the last industry servey posted on TBN.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Interesting thread. I like reading the recommendations and seeing how you evolved in your decision process.

I wasn't clear on whether you are going to have extended family on this farm? I hope you have someone other than yourself to do all this work and still run a bio-tech business. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[concernedcitizen]

Yes, one of the main factors that placed limits (well reasonable limits) of the tractors on my list is the location of the nearest dealership. The second was talks with neighbors around town and their experiences with each manufacturer and the local (nearest) dealers.

I have been looking more towards the implements that the tractor will be using, the specs that each implement requires as far as gph, speed, etc as my main concentration (outside of the cab, which I have decided is not an option, that for my case is a need but a need I acknowledge will come with a rather hefty cost).

Grapple implement. I do not know how that managed to slip through the cracks within my postings, it was always on my mind as a have to get attachment. Not a single neighbor in town I talked with failed to list that as a must have.

I have not completely excluded the Kubota tractors, it was 4th on my list and for posting purposes I limited it to just the top three. Not many, actually only 3 of the neighbors around town own or ever owned any Kubota tractors and two of them did not have good things to say about the quality. I do realize after researching via the internet that they seem to be in the minority, so i'm just left to believe at this point that the lemons that every company makes or slips through quality assurance occasionally must have ended up with them. I will be taking the time to go over to the dealer and do an in-person visit before I reach a final decision.

The Deere's did not make it onto my list due to the negative experiences I was virtually always told about by the neighbors about the local dealer and the next closest dealer would add hours in driving time each way, so I almost excluded that line based on the logistics (but I will still take a couple of hours and go there so I can form my own in person and for myself impression based on such a visit).


We have a large family and a huge extended family. It will be a very slow and methodical integration over a period of years. Some will start sooner than others and some will do more than others. We will not be jumping into full time farming with two feet from atop of a mountainous ocean cliff. We will gradually learn over that lengthy time period but still be lucky enough to have a safety net that we know many other would not have.
Our long term goal is to gain the knowledge of how to, so that if ever needed, we would be able to be self sufficient should such a need ever arise out of necessity. By no means would or is this going to be an operation for commercial or money making venture. I hope that made as much sense in words as it did inside my head.

 

[IslandTractor]

Asking neighbors is a good way to evaluate a dealer but I'd not place a lot of weight on neighbors knowledge of different current tractor types. People who buy lots of tractors and have relevant experience are generally commercial farmers and not particularly focused on CUTs. Most landowners with a tractor bought one and did so two, five or fifteen years ago so may not have particularly relevant experience in comparing tractor brands and current models. IMO, the best way to choose a tractor when you need to do so as a newbie is to visit multiple brand showrooms and then ask a lot of questions in the tractor brand specific area here on TBN. You'll get lots of discussion/debate here when you pose a question and that debate will bring out far more relevant and balanced opinions than any dealer or single neighbor can provide.

You state that neighbors had negative experiences with both Kubota and Deere. Even as a faithful Kioti owner I have to tell you that your neighbors are uninformed or biased as both JD and Kubota make superb and uber reliable tractors in the range you are looking at. Stating that JD or Kubota are unreliable is just malarky. Now, if they stated that the dealers were charging too much they might have a point but you cannot seriously knock either JD or Kubota on reliability.

 

[concernedcitizen]

With reference to the deere, it was about the local dealer only. They did not say anything negative about the deere brand of tractors or equipment line.

 

[TSO]

Even as a faithful Kioti owner I have to tell you that your neighbors are uninformed or biased as both JD and Kubota make superb and uber reliable tractors in the range you are looking at. Stating that JD or Kubota are unreliable is just malarky. Now, if they stated that the dealers were charging too much they might have a point but you cannot seriously knock either JD or Kubota on reliability.

My personal experience would disagree... with the orange anyhow. And there have been many reports on here regarding green electrical issues. Just saying...

 

[4570Man]

My personal experience would disagree... with the orange anyhow. And there have been many reports on here regarding green electrical issues. Just saying...

What shade of orange do you not like?

 

[IslandTractor]

My personal experience would disagree... with the orange anyhow. And there have been many reports on here regarding green electrical issues. Just saying...

Of course there are complaints about Kubota and JD....they are by far the most popular and numerous tractors. Anything mechanical can and will break on occasion. I find zero evidence that JD or Kubota owners are any less happy than Massey, Kioti, Mahindra etc owners, there are just more of them so their bitchin' and moaning is more easily heard.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

Don't go backing him into a corner... Underdogs are always looking for a fight.
Ps please take this as a joke as it was intended.

 

[TSO]

What shade of orange do you not like?

I don't dislike either shade. I owned Kioti before and had a good ownership experience with only a few issues. My close friend has had several new Kubota's and that's where I get my "experience" regarding that shade. I like both brands and a Kioti NX6010 and a Kubota L6060 would both be worth considering when competing with the Massey 1758. I'm just saying that my experience doesn't agree with Island's statement: "your neighbors are uninformed or biased as both JD and kubota make superb and uber reliable tractors in the range you are looking at. Stating that JD or Kubota are unreliable is just malarky".