Newbie doesn't know how to drive !

[rissacher]

That's me. I've owned a tractor for a few days now and there's some things that I don't understand about driving my tractor... particularly how the transmission works. It doesn't seem to be covered in the manual, so I'm guess its stuff that must be common knowledge.

My tractor is a bit rare. Its an early 80s Ford 545 (and industrial diesel tractor). About 45hp, 2WD, FEL, 3-pt. hitch, about 8k lbs, etc. etc. 8 forward speeds, 2 reverse. Its the type that you cannot shift on the fly, but have to be at a full stop (again I'm not a mechanic and definitely a tractor newbie).

The main problem I'm having is the sometimes it just won't go. This mainly seems to be when the tractor doesn't have enough power to move. For example up a hill in too high of a gear. But it doesn't stall... it just sits there in gear. Do I have a bad clutch? Or is it supposed to do this? Sometimes even first gear isn't enough to move it at near full throttle. Or more commonly, I have no way to back up because neither of my reverse gears works. Obviously I need some basic education here. Can somebody help me out?

Also, how are these generally supposed to be driven. I assume it doesn't matter how fast or slow you let out the clutch? Does it matter what the throttle setting is when you let it out?

 

[Grrrr]

Hmmh Does your tractor have a torque converter on it so as when you let of the throttle it comes to a stop. (Some industrial tractors had this.) This could explain the stopping going up hills.

As for driving it, you should be able to drive it like a normal car. You can normally start off in the gear you want to drive in but you have to let the clutch out quite slowly to avoid a sudden jerk.

You should be able to change on the go (I think) but the gears might grind a bit as the gearbox is not syncronised.

When the tractor stops on hills does the engine keep revving or does it bog down? I don't really think it is your clutch.

Does your reverse gear ever work, or is it just reversing up hill?

It definitely sounds as if somethings up with your tractor!

 

[CharlieTR]

It sound like something is wrong.
It is normal for a tractor to start off in any gear, not like a car or truck where you start in first gear only. You can also shift on the fly, but like Grrr said, it is easy to grind the gears.

You said this happens sometimes? Not all the time?

This is not normal for your tractor to do this. When I start off in a higher gear, with high throttle I had better hang on and be leaning forward, otherwise whiplash.

 

[Grrrr]

Just done a bit of reading about this tractor and I dont think that it has a clutch at all. It is supposed to have a 4 speed auto box with (I suppose) a torque converter. You should be able to change on the go. I guess the torque converter is going. Someone else might know more about this tractor.

 

[patrick_g]

Sounds like probably a bad clutch or torque converter whichever it has. With practice you may learn to shift without excessive gear grinding but most tractors are just started up in the gear you want to use when going. On a clutch equipped tractor (I have just a few minutes experience with other than hydrostat) you want to be moderate on the throttle to reduce the JERK when starting off. Use enough throttle to avoid killing or lugging the engine but probably way lower RPM than when working the tractor.

Good luck, hopefully the repairs won't blow away the good deal you got buying used.

Pat

 

[Keith_B]

That's me. I've owned a tractor for a few days now and there's some things that I don't understand about driving my tractor... particularly how the transmission works. It doesn't seem to be covered in the manual, so I'm guess its stuff that must be common knowledge.

My tractor is a bit rare. Its an early 80s Ford 545 (and industrial diesel tractor). About 45hp, 2WD, FEL, 3-pt. hitch, about 8k lbs, etc. etc. 8 forward speeds, 2 reverse. Its the type that you cannot shift on the fly, but have to be at a full stop (again I'm not a mechanic and definitely a tractor newbie).

The main problem I'm having is the sometimes it just won't go. This mainly seems to be when the tractor doesn't have enough power to move. For example up a hill in too high of a gear. But it doesn't stall... it just sits there in gear. Do I have a bad clutch? Or is it supposed to do this? Sometimes even first gear isn't enough to move it at near full throttle. Or more commonly, I have no way to back up because neither of my reverse gears works. Obviously I need some basic education here. Can somebody help me out?

Also, how are these generally supposed to be driven. I assume it doesn't matter how fast or slow you let out the clutch? Does it matter what the throttle setting is when you let it out?

The 8-2 tranny is a Ford ag and industrial staple, and you shouldn't need to rev it up to try to move it in first gear. First, make sure it is fully in gear. It should have a low high range selector shifter on the left, and a gear selector 1-4 & R on the right. Sometimes the low high shifter doesn't slide all the way into the range you need.

If it is completely in gear and isn't moving you likely have a clutch problem. The parts shouldn't be too hard to come by, but likely won't be cheap. If you are going to have to break it in half you may be well served to replace the clutch, throwout bearing and have the pressure plate resurfaced or replaced. Check the ring gear on the flywheel to make sure it is in good shape. It is much easier to replace it now than later.

eBay has a repair manual for these tractors Ford 230A, 340A, 445, 530A, 540A, 545 Tractor Manual on eBay Heavy Equipment Parts, Manuals, Construction, Business Industrial it is kind of steep, but if you are into repairs yourself it would be a good investment.

 

[JerryG]

It doesn't sound like we are being a lot of help on this one.
First find out for sure whether you have a clutch or a torque converter. If it has a clutch, adjust it to see if that helps. It may have not been adjusted for a long time, if ever.

 

[rissacher]

Man I hope its not the clutch! Bought it from a reputable repair guy who said they looked it over. But I guess they might not have noticed if they didn't drive it under any resistance.

Let me try to answer some of the questions....

I'll double check, but I'm almost positive its a clutch. As far as shifter options, there's a high-low on the right and a 5-way (4 forward, 1 reverse) on the left. There's a bunch of different transmission options, hence the reply that it might be a 4-speed auto. I'm quite sure that its not that they shifters aren't all the way engaged. Here's an example why: I put it in reverse and let out the clutch, but nothing happens due to hill, mud, whatever, so I use the bucket loader to push me back, and now the tires start turning until they decide to stop again (or in some cases, the hill/mud/etc is kind enough to let me out, in which case the reverse works fine).

It also warns in the manual never to shift gears unless you are at a full stop. Maybe that's lawyer talk, but I haven't tried to to shift on the fly.

When is stops, the engine keeps running at whatever throttle setting / RPM I set it at (no bogging).

Thanks for the help. Hope we can figure this one out without a new clutch. Sounds expensive and not much fun to install (especially on a rusty old rig like this one!)

 

[Grrrr]

I'd go with what Jerry said and try adjusting the clutch. It certainly sounds as if it is at fault and you are not doing anything wrong.

 

[irwin]

Man I hope its not the clutch! Bought it from a reputable repair guy who said they looked it over. But I guess they might not have noticed if they didn't drive it under any resistance.

Let me try to answer some of the questions....

I'll double check, but I'm almost positive its a clutch. As far as shifter options, there's a high-low on the right and a 5-way (4 forward, 1 reverse) on the left. There's a bunch of different transmission options, hence the reply that it might be a 4-speed auto. I'm quite sure that its not that they shifters aren't all the way engaged. Here's an example why: I put it in reverse and let out the clutch, but nothing happens due to hill, mud, whatever, so I use the bucket loader to push me back, and now the tires start turning until they decide to stop again (or in some cases, the hill/mud/etc is kind enough to let me out, in which case the reverse works fine).

It also warns in the manual never to shift gears unless you are at a full stop. Maybe that's lawyer talk, but I haven't tried to to shift on the fly.

When is stops, the engine keeps running at whatever throttle setting / RPM I set it at (no bogging).

Thanks for the help. Hope we can figure this one out without a new clutch. Sounds expensive and not much fun to install (especially on a rusty old rig like this one!)

It sounds like something clutch related to me...sorry, unless there is no free play, adjusting won't help. You bought it from a reputable tractor guy? call him up. Maybe he'll at least confirm or otherwise shed light on this, he may help out?
If you put it in gear with clutch depressed, then let out clutch on hill and engine runs on but no movement, it's related to clutch/trans drivetrain.

good luck

 

[john_bud]

Call the guy you bought it from. I hate to break it to you but, it "sounds like" he unloaded a lemon on a sucker (you). Sorry to say. Do you have it in writting anywhere that he states it's in good working order or was it an As Is sale?


You can try a forum where there are more folks that use those machines. Antique Tractors - Yesterday's Tractors : Antique Tractor Headquarters and go to the dozers forum. Post the question there and not the Ford forum as that is for ag stuff.

Good luck

jb

 

[Soundguy]

They don't call those 'crashboxes' for nothing. Best bet is to stop when shifting.

As another poster said.. the ford 8x2 tranny was a very robust and bulletproof design. my guess is your clutch is slipping... See if you can adjust it.

Soundguy

Man I hope its not the clutch! Bought it from a reputable repair guy who said they looked it over. But I guess they might not have noticed if they didn't drive it under any resistance.

Let me try to answer some of the questions....

I'll double check, but I'm almost positive its a clutch. As far as shifter options, there's a high-low on the right and a 5-way (4 forward, 1 reverse) on the left. There's a bunch of different transmission options, hence the reply that it might be a 4-speed auto. I'm quite sure that its not that they shifters aren't all the way engaged. Here's an example why: I put it in reverse and let out the clutch, but nothing happens due to hill, mud, whatever, so I use the bucket loader to push me back, and now the tires start turning until they decide to stop again (or in some cases, the hill/mud/etc is kind enough to let me out, in which case the reverse works fine).

It also warns in the manual never to shift gears unless you are at a full stop. Maybe that's lawyer talk, but I haven't tried to to shift on the fly.

When is stops, the engine keeps running at whatever throttle setting / RPM I set it at (no bogging).

Thanks for the help. Hope we can figure this one out without a new clutch. Sounds expensive and not much fun to install (especially on a rusty old rig like this one!)

 

[madpogue]

Joining the chorus -- classic clutch slip. If you're lucky, you can adjust it so it fully engages.

 

[Keith_B]

If the guy you bought it from is a reputable repair guy you may be able to work out a deal for him to fix the clutch, where you aren't stuck for the whole amount.

 

[rissacher]

The only clutch adjustment that I know about is adjusting the pedal. I'm guessing since the clutch works in some instances (engages and disengages), then this won't help. Maybe there's some sort of other clutch adjustment? I don't know because I only have the owner's manual, not the repair manual.

I might call the guy I bought it from the gripe after I've gathered all the facts/rumors. I don't think having him fix it is an option since he is 2 hours away and it was a long difficult day transporting it the first time.

 

[Grrrr]

Sorry for the confusion as to whether it was an automatic. I think what people are saying is try adjusting the clutch pedal but it would seem as though the clutch is slipping as soon as it is difficult for the wheels to turn (going uphill, mud). I would definitely give the repair guy a ring. Did it do it when you tried it out the first time, or has it only started recently?

I don't know but it could be that the clutch plates have completely gone and are unable to engage?

I realise how annoyed you must be.

 

[rissacher]

Its hard to say whether its a new thing because I've only had it a week. I feel like its gotten a little worse, because I remember the first day out getting pretty well stuck in the mud and the tires just kept spinning. Now its hard to get them to slip. But again, I'm not sure because I don't have a lot of hours on tractors at all, and only a couple on this one. It could just be that I was trying more difficult tasks last time out.

Another thing I've noticed that may be transmission related it that it acts like its in gear when I'm trying to start it sometimes. It needs to have both shifters in neurtral to start and it seems like it takes 5-10 tries/double-clutches/re-shifts to get it to start (even though it feels like its in neutral). Not a big deal, but I didn't know if it would help troubleshoot the problem.

What would a normal tractor of this type do under too high a load? Stall? For example, if I tried to start up a hill in the highest gear.

 

[madpogue]

The only clutch adjustment that I know about is adjusting the pedal. I'm guessing since the clutch works in some instances (engages and disengages), then this won't help. Maybe there's some sort of other clutch adjustment? I don't know because I only have the owner's manual, not the repair manual.

Actually, if it's anything like a cable/linkage clutch mechanism on a car or truck, the pedal adjustment _may_ be the thing. If there is zero free play in the pedal, it may mean that the linkage (or cable) is set so tight, it's not allowing the clutch to fully engage when you release the pedal. This would put the clutch in a persistent state of slip. Make sure you at least have _some_ free play in the pedal.

 

[SPYDERLK]

The trouble is - a clutch slipping as bad as this one seems to be tends to overheat quickly and cause real damage to itself. I hope you will be able to salvage it with an adjustment.
larry

 

[Soundguy]

The 8x2 tranny, as well as others.. used a neutral safety switch.. it's common for them to go bad... this has -0- to do with your clutch slipping issue.

One other thing.. and don't take offense.. Driving a ger machine with a clutch is way different than driving an automatic.. never use the clutch as a speed control device... it's only purpose it to provide that 1/2 to 1 second of slip from stop to go... An inexperienced used can burn up a brand new clutch in about 1/2 an hour by riding it. .. I'm not implying that you were.. just throwing that out there..

As to yuor question of what to expect a gear tranny to do when launching uphill in high gear? Well you give it enough throttle so she don't stall.. then you let the clutch slip a little more than normal so as to giv ethe engine time to handle the load.. then off you go. I start off in road gear with my 95hp NH and batwing mower every time I mow.. There are a couple roads that are a sufficient uphill grade that the tractor grunts and makes some black moke at startoff for.. but I consider that normal..

Soundguy

Its hard to say whether its a new thing because I've only had it a week. I feel like its gotten a little worse, because I remember the first day out getting pretty well stuck in the mud and the tires just kept spinning. Now its hard to get them to slip. But again, I'm not sure because I don't have a lot of hours on tractors at all, and only a couple on this one. It could just be that I was trying more difficult tasks last time out.

Another thing I've noticed that may be transmission related it that it acts like its in gear when I'm trying to start it sometimes. It needs to have both shifters in neurtral to start and it seems like it takes 5-10 tries/double-clutches/re-shifts to get it to start (even though it feels like its in neutral). Not a big deal, but I didn't know if it would help troubleshoot the problem.

What would a normal tractor of this type do under too high a load? Stall? For example, if I tried to start up a hill in the highest gear.