New Welder-Suggestions/Perspective/Pointers/Tech Info

[Duke4AZ]

Short story long, I own a new home and have some welding/metal fabrication to do. I can either pay someone to do it all, or I can have the fun myself. I am inclined to keep the fun at home and instead of paying for labor, pay for new tools, and not gripe about the job if it is not to my standares . . . which I am told are pretty discriminating.

The rub is I am a woodworker, not a metal fabricator. Not that I incapable of doing something like metal fab if I set my mind to it, I just don't have tools. The decision has somewhat been made that I am going to start accumulating the tools. That being said, what better place to get suggestions on what tools to accumulate than TBN. Not only is there a lot of good practical experience on this site, but enjoyably everyone on this forum also has an opinion that they are willing to share.

So, all that being said, I need suggestions on the following three catagories:
1. Welder: type, make, model, size, new/used, where to buy.
2. Chop saw: same as above,
3. Any other necessary tools that are absolutely indispensible when working with metals, i.e. grinder, clamps, etc.

As a starting point, I have a couple of light duty pedestrian gates that have to be built. Basic construction, with nothing real fancy. After the gates we move to patio structures and perhaps some shelving and storage equipment. I don't expect to be doing serious heavyduty fabrication but want to be able to handle anything that may crop up with the property or tractor/attachments. I do not have an out building to store this equipment in so space is a consideration. Cost is important but value is critical.

I am looking for good objective information with practical experience to back it up. I expect to be up and welding in the next few weeks pending equipment acquisition.

Your suggestions and input is certainly welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Duke

 

[schmism]

As a starting point, I have a couple of light duty pedestrian gates that have to be built. Basic construction, with nothing real fancy. After the gates we move to patio structures and perhaps some shelving and storage equipment. I don't expect to be doing serious heavyduty fabrication but want to be able to handle anything that may crop up with the property or tractor/attachments. I do not have an out building to store this equipment in so space is a consideration. Cost is important but value is critical.
Duke

what you have there is a contradiction in terms. light duty fab you speak of screams low cost 110v unit (4-$600) but anything on a tractor and or attachments is 90% of the time BEAFY = big 220V high amp unit.

a "portable" mig (gas rig) is going to be the best/easyest to learn on and great glue stick machine for light duty fab work. they are relitivly inexpensive (half the cost of a "full size" mig unit)

Hobart is now owned by miller so you can get basicly the same miller machine for a few bucks less.

For the small stuff you speak of id start with an hobart handler 140.

you will need a helmet (the HF auto darking one has been debated to death, seems the concenesis is its at least worth the $50 youll pay for it) As well as the $50 14" chop saw from HF.

i perfer dewalt or milwalkee 4.5" angle grinders due to ballance, feel, paddle switch (easy to use with heavy welders gloves) and high amperage motors meaning you can really hog on them.

those three basic tools as well as a good drill and drill bits will get you a long way when it comes to basic metal fab projects.

high amp stick (arc) welders are great for heavy material and are significantly less than a comperable mig unit. (but have there cons also) (so start with the little protable mig, and add a larger arc welder later.

 

[MadReferee]

Take a look at these 3 forums:

Miller Welding Forum

Hobart Welding Forums

Miller Welding Projects

Your situation is like many, many others and they have asked the same questions as you. There are many choices, too many in fact. You have to do some research to determine what you need based on what you are indending to do and how much you are willing to spend. What's good for me the semi-professional, is probably not good you you the rookie. There is plenty of good equipment out there and there is also plenty of cheap junk. The above 3 forums will be very helpful. Good luck.

 

[snoboy]

Duke, I'm going to assume since you use forums then you have done a little internet home work. Everything that Schmism and Mad Ref. said is good info. If it were me and I only was gonna have 1 machine due to space limitations, then I would get a good set of Smith OA torches and a #6153-20 41/2" 12amp Milwaukee angle grinder. (I know this is gonna get me in trouble). A drill and bits as well. Youl'll be able to cut, clean/grind with above setup and storage and initial cost won't be too high.
Pros and cons to my suggestion.
Pros:
-Simple setup with the cheapest up front expense
-No frills operation with OA
-Ease of storage
-You can do alot of cutting with your torch.
-No special power requirement for the welder and simple 115v service for grinder and drill.
Cons:
-Gas welding is the hardest to master (but very rewarding)
-Gas welding is the hardest to master (not a typo)

I only suggest this based on your wants/needs
I own a
Millermatic 210 with spoolgun (for aluminum)
Smith OA torch set
Thermal Dynamics 51 Plasma unit
Big Delta drill press and a small arsenal of angle griders. So if I had to down size and still accomplish tasks it would be the Smith torches and the 12 amp grinder to get by with.
My .02
snoboy

 

[shovelhead]

Duke,
Like you, my "Shop" has been transformed from cabinetmanking/furniture to metalwork & truck restoration. ME and a friend are currently restoring a '59 chevy pickup in my 2-car garage. When choosing a welder, I would look at what I would most be doing. If you are welding steel 1/8" or more, I would by AC/DC "crackerbox" welder. Lincloln, Miller and Hobart all make good ones. If you are welding any steel less than 1/8", I would select the MIG like the poster above mentioned. I agree with his selections. Then lots of practice!
You will get the hang of it. Find someone nearby to use as a resource if needed. Good luck to you.

 

[KWentling]

Stick with a name brand. I personally prefer Lincoln but Miller is good also. I have no experience with Hobart other than a 400 amp engine driven machine. Keep in mind that just because a machine is rated at 3/16", 1/4" etc. that doesn't mean you cant weld 1/2". Just means mutilple passes and maybe using some preheat. If you're doing you're welding outside, wind can blow you're shielding gas a way so you probably want to have the option of using inershield gasless wire so being able to change polarity is important. That is possible on all but the cheapies. From what you have described a think a 120 volt machine would be enough and the convenience of running anyplace you have an outlet is nice. If its all close to a 220 outlet, by all means get a 220 volt machine.

Kim

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

One thing no one has suggested is to look around your local community colleges, tech and vocational schools for some welding classes if you haven't already. Around here I was able to find a couple for under $100 per semester and they were well worth the money. I took an ARC class first and then a MIG class. I definitely recommend learning to ARC weld first as that's where you truly learn to weld.

Good luck with whatever you decide. I hope this helps.

 

[Duke4AZ]

. . . I would get a good set of Smith OA torches . . ."

Correct on the internet research, but not much on this particular subject yet. However, and I will look this up, I am not familiar with the Smith OA torches. Is that an oxy/acetelene setup? Actually now that I write that and looking at your post, I would guess it is. And you are correct, a lot of practice would be required to get there from here. My father had one and was pretty good at it. I like the idea of the torches for cutting and was thinking about doing some ornamental brazing with that kind of a set up later on. At this juncture in time, I am concerned about the amount of scrap I would be generating in the process of learning how to be good at that. Although your suggestion does cause me to pause for consideration.

Since my original post, I have done some amount of internet research and between the sites that Mad provided and Google I have leaned a couple of things. If a MIG setup is the way I decided to go, I am looking at a small 220VAC range. This is based on not only my net research and reading different welding forums, as well as TBN, but also personal discussions I have had with a few of my friends and work associates that I have talked to. To a man, one of the first recommendations they have given me is that they wished they had the 220 VAC unit . . . primarily for the duty cycle and the capability handle larger material than their current 110 units are spec'd to.

Not to be too specific because I would prefer not to get into another discussion like the one on the HF unit, but the HOBART 187 looks like a pretty good machine for the money I have found it for. Features I have found important are duty cycle, which seems to to be directly proportional to cost, I want a cold tip when not welding, gas & flux core capability (i.e., polarity conversion), adjustable wire feed speed, adjustable power setting and small footprint. Those are just off the top of the head after a couple of hours of research but that is a good start.

Again, that is very preliminary, but I have to start somewhere. So far all of the suggestions have been seriously considered and proven to be valuable. I appreciate the input . . . and it sounds like based on my reading we have some pretty serious welding capabilities in the crowd out there. I always seem to be impressed with the depth and quality of the experience and the inputs that I see on this forum. Thanks again.

Duke

 

[bx23barry]

For my 2 cents the hobart 187 looks like a good deal but for the money you could get a bigger ac/dc stick unit and a good torch set. I have had my miller 230 buzzbox and victor torches for 30+ years and they have allowed me to do everything I've needed to do (that includes a couple jeep frames). I keep thinking a mig/tig (yes I have used both at work and they are real nice) would be nice to have but just can't bring myself to lay the cash down. A good angle grinder is one of the most useful tools you can have also. Then a drill press.

 

[Ifixcars]

I would say go with name brand also. Miller, Hobart, Lincoln, Esab, Victor, Harris are all quality brands. I would go to the local welding supply store and ask them what unit offers the best warranty and service after the sale. The 2 stores around me will allow the buyer to test weld the unit in the store. Yeah, they make you buy some gas and maybe a tungsten or a spool of wire, but it's worth the time and money. What is your price range? I use my torches more than my welders. Personally, I would go with the OA setup first, then the welder. A 220v mig is my favorite, but a 110 unit paired with a stick welder would be very versatile too. Don't forget to get all the safety equipment too.

 

[snoboy]

Duke, I pretty much based my entire input off of this portion of your criteria, which seemed to say alot to me
" I do not have an out building to store this equipment in so space is a consideration. Cost is important but value is critical."

My thinking is you'll be working outside frequently which would set the standard to Stick welding, MIG using solid flux core (no gas) or OA (oxy-acetylene). Limited storage space means limited tools so my thought process was to get you outfitted to cut,grind and glue metal together in the simplest but most efficient manor. Mig welders and chop saws take up a fair amount of space Torches use alot less floor area and an angle grinder can go in the bathroom vanity if need be, ha ha. OA welding is a very plausible compromise and actually quite rewarding, and when you can get down working with molten metal all the other forms of welding will fall right into place. Again my .02

snoboy

 

[snoboy]

One other thing Duke. You wont generate alot of scrap with OA, your welds just wont be real pretty at first.
If you do decide on a wire feed I would follow the advice of the others and go with at least a 220v model. If you went stick you would still need 220 any ways. I'm a Miller guy all the way for wire feeders! But Home Depot and Lowes have pretty good deals on the Lincoln 175s. That would be a real nice unit. You'll still need a good angle grinder which BTW the Ridgid 4 1/2" is an excellent grinder. Most agree it's a re-badged Matabo which is top-o-the line. The Ridgid will be my next angle grinder. Hit Home Depot and 1 stop shop! Keep us posted. I'm a fairly new welder and have been welding my butt off for the last few months and am addicted. If you practice frequently you'll get reasonbly good pretty fast. Get your self a decent welding book to help you trouble shoot and the manufacture's sites have a wealth of info too. Which ever route you take best of luck to you.
snoboy

 

[sandman2234]

I thought there was an unwritten law on the books that said everyone with aspirations of welding was required to buy a Tombstone welder:>)
There are many many many of them out there, and the old ones were built like a tank! (almost as heavy too!)
David from jax

 

[john_bud]

One other thing Duke. You wont generate alot of scrap with OA, your welds just wont be real pretty at first.
If you do decide on a wire feed I would follow the advice of the others and go with at least a 220v model. If you went stick you would still need 220 any ways. I'm a Miller guy all the way for wire feeders! But Home Depot and Lowes have pretty good deals on the Lincoln 175s. That would be a real nice unit. You'll still need a good angle grinder which BTW the Ridgid 4 1/2" is an excellent grinder. Most agree it's a re-badged Matabo which is top-o-the line. The Ridgid will be my next angle grinder. Hit Home Depot and 1 stop shop! Keep us posted. I'm a fairly new welder and have been welding my butt off for the last few months and am addicted. If you practice frequently you'll get reasonbly good pretty fast. Get your self a decent welding book to help you trouble shoot and the manufacture's sites have a wealth of info too. Which ever route you take best of luck to you.
snoboy

Snoboy,

One thing that used to be true. Might not be anymore, but the welders sold by the big box stores were very stripped down models. There was an extra letter tagged on to indicate that most of the features were removed. Learned that from a direct comparison between the box store and a welding supply house.

Got a Lincoln 255 mig and a set of Victor torches. Brands seem to cycle back and forth on features and cost but the big names all have decent quality. (Unlike my first 110v Italian mig with a wimpy duty cycle).

jb

 

[Duke4AZ]

Thanks for all of the information from each of the contributors. In the past couple of days, between this forum, a couple of welding forums, and discussions with people I know, it has pretty much been like drinking from a fire hose. But it still tastes good.

So the Rents are down from MN this week, just got in today. Father has been welding since he was 17, I am almost 1/2 century, so you can do the math. After talking with him and throwing a lot of your inputs, suggestions, and experiences at him, and basically discussing what I want to do, his recommendation was the MIG. While I have him here we are going to run the 220 line around the garage and get set up to burn some wire. The actual model and size is yet to be determined. I have previously stated the features I want and will start doing the comparative shopping this weekend, like tomorrow. Should be up and running in a week or so.

One other little bit of information that helped push me to the MIG was that I stand to inherit a set of torches and a stick welder in the very near future, like as soon as I can get my butt to Minnisota and pick them up. I suppose doing that math on that one with respect to gas prices is not going to result in such a great deal, but they are Dad's and that is worth something.

Thanks again to everyone that has helped here. If you think of something else, please feel free to post here or direct email. I will repost the results as soon as I git 'er done.

Any suggestions on AD helmets? That just seems like a lot of technology that needs good practical backup. I don't want to trial and error something like that.

 

[swines]

Since you live in the SW, I'd look at RRAM sales (Fresno Oxygen / Barnes Welding Supply) Fresno Oxygen / Barnes Welding Supply

They sell Miller, Lincoln, Hobart, and Weldmark welding equipment. I've purchased a lot of equipment from them over the past 15 years. They'll ship any item or order over $50 for free to western states.

The little 115 Volt MIG units can weld up to 3/8-inch steel with careful joint preparation and multiple passes after the root pass. The Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC and Lincoln "buzzbox" stick models are a good welders - but heavy at 100+ pounds.

Miller also makes some 115/230 Volt self-linking (auto voltage) stick and MIG units. I have the Maxstar 140 inverter welder (the new version is the Maxstar 150) - which is a stick welder that can be used for DC TIG work also. Many people don't understand how the inverter welder works. It's a diode bridge that splits the AC current into two halves and adds them together for final DC final output. This makes a much higher effeciency than transformer-based welders where much of the voltage is lost in the transformer as heat.

Even on 115 Volts, the little Maxstar can easily weld 3/8-inch steel. I have it because it's so portable (about the size of a child's lunchbox and weighs about 11 lbs) - and can run on 115 Volts - making repairs and installations at any location much easier as you don't have to find or rig a 230 Volt outlet. In fact, I have rented it on several occassions to a local machine shop for repair work - including installation of an I-beam for a 3-ton overhead crane. It is a serious piece of welding equipment.

The easiest welder to use will be a MIG. MIGs make poor weldors look good and good weldors look great. Making good beads with a MIG is about 10x easier than with a stick welder.

For reference the welding equipment I have: 300 Amp multi-process ESAB setup as a MIG; the Maxstar 140 stick; a Thermal Arc, Arc Master 160 setup as a TIG; ESAB 500 plasma cutter; and an ESAB Pureox gas welding outfit. I use a Jackson EQC Professional auto-darkening helmet - but today, I'd probably get either the Miller auto helmet or the Jackson NEXGEN as they will go to 13 and I do a lot of TIG work.

As for grinders - I have two Bosch grinders, a Milwaukee grinder, and a Porter Cable grinder. They all work about the same. Just make sure you buy a quality grinder.

 

[Joee]

Hi, I stick welded for years and finally bought a, Millermatic 210 mig, its a very nice 220V machine.

It will do you right.

Joe

 

[Sully2]

The easiest welder to use will be a MIG. MIGs make poor weldors look good and good weldors look great. Making good beads with a MIG is about 10x easier than with a stick welder.

You got that right!! Im still practicing with .030 flux core...and even though about 1/2 of my welds LOOK like ****....I cant beat the 2 pieces apart with a 2 pounder...so at least they are "glued together" pretty decently!

I can do NOTHING with a stick welder!

 

[horseman1]

If I was in the market for a new Mig for 1/4" or less material, I'd probably take a close look at that Hobart 187. I havent figured out if it would be worth the trade up from the 175. Probably not, but I want one anyway! Reviews can be found on the Hobart Welding Forum site Mad posted. Have fun with your new welders!

Kurt

 

[JoeJ]

Duke,

Be sure to take your dad with you, and do the compare'n at welding supply stores, not Home Depot!!!!!
You want to hands on try each machine, and that won't happen at the box stores!!
I'm not big on it just for principle, but if you find what you want and can get the exact same thing at the box store, ok.