New tractor lifting opinion please

[allen.car64]

New here. I'll try and make it short. I have kind of same question as poster BUT will be specific with situation and WHY.
Looking at KIOTI CK4020SEH with lift capacity of 1631lbs. the impliment I need to lift is 1388lbs on a regular. Meaning, impliment is a Verti Drain aerator. Will run/operate for 20-50ft then lift, turn around and drop and run again. 100 times a day.
The limits are to close for my liking. I DO LIKE THE OVERALL SIZE AND WIDTH (very important) of the tractor. I know I can go up a size for tractor, but I want to make sure that is the ONLY way to make this work. After reading around I think you guys are awesome and would know my options.
Many huge thanks in advance.

 

[dstig1]

You still have 250 lbs of lift left over. As long as that does not change, it should be fine. You may need to consider front weights to help balance and offset it, especially if you leave it in place all the time. I guess I am assuming this is carried on the 3-pt...

 

[AaronD81]

I was initially going to say you should be fine since the Verti Drain appears to be a pretty compact implement and you'll likely be on smooth flat surfaces, but the specs on their website all require more capacity than actual weight. For example, the 7316 weighs 1,480 lbs and asks for a 2,310 min capacity. So I'd say you need more tractor, especially since it sounds like you'll be using it commercially.

Enhance Your Grounds with the Verti-Drain® 7316 Aeration

Discover the versatility of the Verti-Drain® 7316 for sports fields and golf courses, perfect for tough conditions with adjustable speed.

verti-drain.us

 

[allen.car64]

Awesome, thanks guys. I will have front weights, not sure amount yet, usually more than needed for safety. The Verti Drain I am looking at is the 7215 @ 1210lbs and an older 7117 @ 1388lbs. Sorry I wasn't clear. The max capicity of the 7215 VD needs 1540lbs, the older 7117 I can't find.
I still wish to have your both feedback. My problem is I don't want to "over work" the tractor BUT I am trying keep it as small frame as I can. I can move up to the NX series but trying not to because of size.
Other than that the only requirements I have is a cab (for medical reasons) and be sychronized manual for hole spacing consistency.
(If I miss spelled anything, please overlook..LOL)
You guys are much appreciated.
A

 

[allen.car64]

You still have 250 lbs of lift left over. As long as that does not change, it should be fine. You may need to consider front weights to help balance and offset it, especially if you leave it in place all the time. I guess I am assuming this is carried on the 3-pt...

Yes sir, it is pto driven and a 3 point lift. I outlined some things below with another post. But, so your saying if tractor capacity is say 2000 and impliment is 1900 then it is good to do the job? I am not well versed in tractors, just owner operator (past) for number of years and always belived you had to have a large clearance between weight and capacity. AM I wrong? (I hope so). Not sure why I have thought that way. I never like overworking equipment I guess.
A

 

[allen.car64]

I was initially going to say you should be fine since the Verti Drain appears to be a pretty compact implement and you'll likely be on smooth flat surfaces, but the specs on their website all require more capacity than actual weight. For example, the 7316 weighs 1,480 lbs and asks for a 2,310 min capacity. So I'd say you need more tractor, especially since it sounds like you'll be using it commercially.

Enhance Your Grounds with the Verti-Drain® 7316 Aeration

Discover the versatility of the Verti-Drain® 7316 for sports fields and golf courses, perfect for tough conditions with adjustable speed.

verti-drain.us

Yes, commercially. But really isn't (tractor) put thru much. Example, in 1994 I bought new tractor, at end of year took to be serviced, and service manager told me he did the work but for what I do he would worry much about keep to tight a schedule. After a year the fluids were cleaner than what he put in...per his words.

 

[AaronD81]

The 7215 has a working width of 61 inches so I understand why you want to use a 54 inch wide CK. Is there a reason you would go up to NX and not DK series? The CK with loader or front weights will work, but you're correct that it could cause faster wear or damage. If you are very careful and use it on flat smooth surfaces risk is minimized. I would use a bigger machine, Kubota Grand L series, L3560, has 2,600 lbs capacity and is 60 inches wide.

Also check specs with the tires you will use, if you get turf tires it will be wider than advertised since a lot of specs are based on narrow ag tires.

 

[dstig1]

Well since Aaron looked up more details on the implement and found out it needs more lift than the weight would imply, I'd follow that. Yer gunna need a bigger boat, errr, tractor.

 

[newkiotiguy]

That weight rating is for 2 feet behind the hitch pins. I think it will lift it easily. I have the same tractor. My 3 point hitch with forks lift the heaviest totes of wet firewood easily where the front end loader rated at few hundred pounds higher capacity will barely lift it.

 

[allen.car64]

The 7215 has a working width of 61 inches so I understand why you want to use a 54 inch wide CK. Is there a reason you would go up to NX and not DK series? The CK with loader or front weights will work, but you're correct that it could cause faster wear or damage. If you are very careful and use it on flat smooth surfaces risk is minimized. I would use a bigger machine, Kubota Grand L series, L3560, has 2,600 lbs capacity and is 60 inches wide.

Also check specs with the tires you will use, if you get turf tires it will be wider than advertised since a lot of specs are based on narrow ag tires.

Aaron, you are exactly right. In 90's & early 2000's all I sed was Kubotas. But now to high. L3560 w cab & turf tires is north of $38K. Ive been looking at non hydrostatic trans cause needing consistant hole spacing. Im looking at Kioti & TYM. Also, Kioti dealer just told me the CK4020SEH is NOT available in gear, only hydrostat.
Anyone know if a GPS speed indicator could work so I would know my ground speed and then can be consitant BEFORE dropping and engaging the aerator? My work speed will range from 3/4 mph to 1 1/2mph
I appreciate all the input & your time.
A

 

[loggin]

Aaron, you are exactly right. In 90's & early 2000's all I sed was Kubotas. But now to high. L3560 w cab & turf tires is north of $38K. Ive been looking at non hydrostatic trans cause needing consistant hole spacing. Im looking at Kioti & TYM. Also, Kioti dealer just told me the CK4020SEH is NOT available in gear, only hydrostat.
Anyone know if a GPS speed indicator could work so I would know my ground speed and then can be consitant BEFORE dropping and engaging the aerator? My work speed will range from 3/4 mph to 1 1/2mph
I appreciate all the input & your time.
A

One thing you might want to pay attention to is the maximum implement weight for a particular tractor model. I have an MX4700 and the manual states a lift capacity of 2,310 pounds at 24 inches beyond lift points. In the implement section it has a maximum implement weight of around 1,000 pounds. I imagine it likely has to do with traveling over rough ground with with the implement in the air and the associated stresses created. That and the fact that an implement often extends out further than 24 inches behind lift point.

Personally I would go with a larger tractor.

Just my 2 cents. Hope this helps!!

 

[AaronD81]

Aaron, you are exactly right. In 90's & early 2000's all I sed was Kubotas. But now to high. L3560 w cab & turf tires is north of $38K. Ive been looking at non hydrostatic trans cause needing consistant hole spacing. Im looking at Kioti & TYM. Also, Kioti dealer just told me the CK4020SEH is NOT available in gear, only hydrostat.
Anyone know if a GPS speed indicator could work so I would know my ground speed and then can be consitant BEFORE dropping and engaging the aerator? My work speed will range from 3/4 mph to 1 1/2mph
I appreciate all the input & your time.
A

I don't think any GPS will be accurate that slow. I used two options on my HST for spraying. Neither may work and I agree manual is likely best transmission for you.

First was a bicycle computer, it just needs a magnet on the wheel. This worked OK, but for less than 1 mph it may not register a speed.

Second was marking a set distance on the ground and calculating speed based on certain RPM at full forward pedal. This worked well, but mainly because I was using a sprayer and didn't need full PTO engine speed, and I could adjust sprayer to whatever speed I was going. In your case you'll need to adjust tractor speed to implement so even low range on a HST will likely be too fast.

Based on cost and size I think the Kioti CK will work, you'll just have to be careful.

 

[ptsg]

Aaron, you are exactly right. In 90's & early 2000's all I sed was Kubotas. But now to high. L3560 w cab & turf tires is north of $38K. Ive been looking at non hydrostatic trans cause needing consistant hole spacing. Im looking at Kioti & TYM. Also, Kioti dealer just told me the CK4020SEH is NOT available in gear, only hydrostat.
Anyone know if a GPS speed indicator could work so I would know my ground speed and then can be consitant BEFORE dropping and engaging the aerator? My work speed will range from 3/4 mph to 1 1/2mph
I appreciate all the input & your time.
A

Since you're considering shuttle shift and TYM as well, I will suggest that you go with the 20R series (xx20 models) for a couple reasons. "R" is shuttle shift, "H" is HST.

First it's because it's a former Branson model and those are built much better than the TYM ones, in just about every aspect.

Second, because the 20 series has a 16x16 transmission, so 4 ranges being: creeper, low, medium and high. I can see how the creeper gears will work very well in your application.

Lowest gear (1st in creep range) seems that it will do about 1 mph at max engine RPM (2850 rpm), if the chart from TYM website is correct. The 540 PTO is rated at 2600 engine RPM, so that speed will drop a bit. If you can run in the 540Eco (about 1800 engine RPM), that ground speed will be even lower. Well within the speeds you're looking for.

Those are available in 35/48/55 HP and as far as 3 pt capacity, those are rated at 3300 lbs at the balls or 2400lbs 24" behind the balls.

There is also the smaller frame 15 series but those have a 12x12 transmission (3 ranges), which as great tractors as well (I have one) but not sure the lowest gear will be slow enough for your application. EDIT: Looks like the 15 series will do 0.8 mph at max engine RPM.

 

[allen.car64]

Since you're considering shuttle shift and TYM as well, I will suggest that you go with the 20R series (xx20 models) for a couple reasons. "R" is shuttle shift, "H" is HST.

First it's because it's a former Branson model and those are built much better than the TYM ones, in just about every aspect.

Second, because the 20 series has a 16x16 transmission, so 4 ranges being: creeper, low, medium and high. I can see how the creeper gears will work very well in your application.

Lowest gear (1st in creep range) seems that it will do about 1 mph at max engine RPM (2850 rpm), if the chart from TYM website is correct. The 540 PTO is rated at 2600 engine RPM, so that speed will drop a bit. If you can run in the 540Eco (about 1800 engine RPM), that ground speed will be even lower. Well within the speeds you're looking for.

Those are available in 35/48/55 HP and as far as 3 pt capacity, those are rated at 3300 lbs at the balls or 2400lbs 24" behind the balls.

There is also the smaller frame 15 series but those have a 12x12 transmission (3 ranges), which as great tractors as well (I have one) but not sure the lowest gear will be slow enough for your application. EDIT: Looks like the 15 series will do 0.8 mph at max engine RPM.

Awesome insight. The max engine RPM I would use is around 1600-1800. I did test drive the T474C with shuttle. Problem (only issue I had) was the main gear from Low/Medium/High was not sychronized. The ground speed seemed okay. I will look at what you are suggesting. Reviewing the TYM T394C now. Kind of like that one.
A

 

[allen.car64]

I don't think any GPS will be accurate that slow. I used two options on my HST for spraying. Neither may work and I agree manual is likely best transmission for you.

First was a bicycle computer, it just needs a magnet on the wheel. This worked OK, but for less than 1 mph it may not register a speed.

Second was marking a set distance on the ground and calculating speed based on certain RPM at full forward pedal. This worked well, but mainly because I was using a sprayer and didn't need full PTO engine speed, and I could adjust sprayer to whatever speed I was going. In your case you'll need to adjust tractor speed to implement so even low range on a HST will likely be too fast.

Based on cost and size I think the Kioti CK will work, you'll just have to be careful.

Yeah, I could not agree more. The hole spacing for is critical. It's what I get paid for. I was hoping for some speed indicator that I could monitor and get to a number then engage cruise. I should have clarified that it really doesn't need to be accurate but accurate to the same indicator everytime. Meaning, if my true ground speed is 1mph (example), but indicator say 1.5 or 2mph or whatever, thats fine, as long as that is spot on for each pass I make as a point of reference. Thanks a bunch.
A

 

[ptsg]

Awesome insight. The max engine RPM I would use is around 1600-1800. I did test drive the T474C with shuttle. Problem (only issue I had) was the main gear from Low/Medium/High was not sychronized. The ground speed seemed okay. I will look at what you are suggesting. Thank you so much.
A

I don't think you'll find any tractor, in this size at least, with synchronized range gears (low, medium, high). Most, just like the Branson models I listed, will be synchronized on the shuttle (forward and reverse) and on the main gears (1st to 4th).

 

[LouNY]

Aaron, you are exactly right. In 90's & early 2000's all I sed was Kubotas. But now to high. L3560 w cab & turf tires is north of $38K. Ive been looking at non hydrostatic trans cause needing consistant hole spacing. Im looking at Kioti & TYM. Also, Kioti dealer just told me the CK4020SEH is NOT available in gear, only hydrostat.
Anyone know if a GPS speed indicator could work so I would know my ground speed and then can be consitant BEFORE dropping and engaging the aerator? My work speed will range from 3/4 mph to 1 1/2mph
I appreciate all the input & your time.
A

Yes the CK4020SEH is the hydrostatic version the CK4020SE would be the manual transmission version, I believe that minimum speed at pto rpm is 1 mph.

 

[allen.car64]

Yes the CK4020SEH is the hydrostatic version the CK4020SE would be the manual transmission version, I believe that minimum speed at pto rpm is 1 mph.

Yeah, I was just told the Kioti website is wrong. The CK4020SE is no cab. Only the SEH(hydro) can have a cab. Which medically I need. (Lopus)

 

[allen.car64]

I don't think you'll find any tractor, in this size at least, with synchronized range gears (low, medium, high). Most, just like the Branson models I listed, will be synchronized on the shuttle (forward and reverse) and on the main gears (1st to 4th).

Yes, it seems you are on point. Shame, back in late '90's I bought Lseries Kubota with cab and Glid Shift Transmission. Now you cant get that unless open platform. That was the best transmission for my use. Not when I ever used the clutch LOL. It was a dream tractor for my use.
A

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

Yeah the TYM ‘20 series have 3300lbs plus lift capacity, none of that common rail ECM bull crap, and they are heavy for thier size. My 4820 is a little smaller than the 494, but weighs just as much.

I have the HST version and have zero complaints