New road on steep hills

[Johndeere3720]

Well, yesterday I started to dig out the new road to get the tractor and skidsteer to the back end of the property. The area I was working in was hilly and in some spots, steep. There are no rocks what so ever but some spots were hard and some soft. I used the track skidsteer to do the job since it isnt 'tippy' on the hill. I would carve out certain areas and use the extra dirt to make another section. The last part was hardest since it was so steep it was imposible to drive on.

I cut that about 1-2' and the extra dirt went on the left side to complete the road. The problem is that since the extra dirt is on the left side on the whole road, should I leave it for a safety burrier or level it to make it wider and let the water run off. Also, since it is in a horse pasture, it will get lots of horse traffic and that means mud in the winter. What do I do to prevent mud? This road is about 6' wide so the skidsteer barely fits. On the steep part, 3/4 of the road is cut off the hill and 1/4 is fill. Will the fill stay stable, its not clay or rocky.

 

[matt_isserstedt]

All I can think of to reduce mud is to apply stone/gravel.

Depending on the property, I'd think a steep road needs a drainage ditch on the uphill side of the road, and then filled with rip-rap or paved with concrete to make sure it doesn't erode. Even the paved ditches along the highways have raised "bricks" which look like a large concrete block standing vertical embedded, in order to slow the water flow-speed down.

 

[pat32rf]

I tend to take the other approach, get the water across the road and on down the hill as fast as possible, before it has a chance to build up any volume. If you ditch the uphill side soon you will have either a ditch full of standing water (mud) or a channel of fast flowing water (erosion). I always grade the roadway so the rainwater flows to the downhill side and try to get enough vegitation growing to stop erosion. Sticks and stones on the downhill side will also slow down the water so any silt can settle out.

 

[charlz]

As pat32rf commented, getting the water across/off the trail as fast as possible is they way to go. On trails we use 'rolling grade dips' as a way to move the water off the trail. Advantage is that they need little to no maintenance unlike water bars etc.

 

[ultrarunner]

As pat32rf commented, getting the water across/off the trail as fast as possible is they way to go. On trails we use 'rolling grade dips' as a way to move the water off the trail. Advantage is that they need little to no maintenance unlike water bars etc.

I'm lucky... I seem to be able to make "Rolling Grade Dips" without even trying...

 

[Johndeere3720]

The problem with pushing the dirt off the side is that the road is only 6' wide. How do I push it off the side safely? I can use the 3720 Deere or the CT322 Deere track skidsteer.

 

[pat32rf]

When I don't have rock to contend with I favor my FEL over my hoe. Just scooping a bit out of the high side, then backing up with the wheels cramped so the bucket then lets me dump over the edge, slowly building up the low side. Takes time but no one is paying me by the hour.....
In many spots I have to lay 30' logs between existing trees to hold the loose fill from continuing downhill...

 

[Ken45101]

I agree that it's best to get the water across and off the trail as quickly as possible. Do not ditch the up hill side unless you have lots of room (e.g. ditch 5' wide and 2' deep). When you get a real "gully washer" rainstorm, things will wash out on you if you have an uphill gully. You will also need to install culverts to drain the water. Also, holding water on the uphill side will keep the trail soft and muddy.

I also think you need to make it wider. Don't depend on much of the "spoils" for your trail. Most of your trail should be on dug (solid) dirt with the spoils used as a shoulder. They will be soft and will sink. If you don't have enough room for your skid steer, you need to make it a couple of feet wider.

I've built trails by a scraper blade behind the tractor (very mild side slopes only), a small backhoe, by hand with a mattock, and now with a mini excavator. The mini wins hands down, especially since mine has an angle blade to push dirt sideways.

Ken

 

[Johndeere3720]

I got it leveled off so the edge is gone and im letting the dirt settle until I go out there this weekend with my camera. One thing, pictures!

 

[foggy1111]

I have a very steep road / trail to access part of my land. This road was constantly washing out due to heavy rains. I try to direct the water to one side.....but alot of it is just destined to go across the road. I recently put down a layer of crushed granite and had that tamped down well with a viberatory packer. It almost looks like its paved. So far it has taken a few downpours and looks like new. I think (hope) everything is going to stay put for a long time.....but it's still a little early to know. I have also put down some crushed concrete in the past with pretty good results too.

 

[Ken45101]

I have a very steep road / trail to access part of my land. This road was constantly washing out due to heavy rains. I try to direct the water to one side.....but alot of it is just destined to go across the road. I recently put down a layer of crushed granite and had that tamped down well with a viberatory packer. It almost looks like its paved. So far it has taken a few downpours and looks like new. I think (hope) everything is going to stay put for a long time.....but it's still a little early to know. I have also put down some crushed concrete in the past with pretty good results too.

According to a USFS bridal trail building manual, it's best to have the entire trail tilted a bit toward the downhill side so that the water runs off in small amounts rather than in large volumes in a small number of places. I've noticed that we I've done that (more by luck than foresight), the trail holds up well. OTOH, where it runs down a gulley on the uphill side, I get heavy erosion.

Ken

 

[Johndeere3720]

All this time, people have tried to imagine what the road looks like. Well, last night I went out there with the tractor to grade it and to take pictures. The ground is pretty hard since I dug down last time to get to solid ground. There is a but of a lip on the side but the ground is not stable enough there to use the tractor. The road is much longer than in the picture but this was the steepest spot.

 

[WayneB]

Jacob, I am not sure how you plan to hold the bank back? Maybe a stone type retaining wall?

Wayne

 

[woodlandfarms]

We have very steep driveway that is around 700 feet, all of it is uphill. It rains a lot, and due to the design, water is just part of the equation.

Last year I cut nearly horizontal lines across my driveway every 30 feet or so using the edge of the boxblade. The lines are at an angle the uphill side higher, the lower side ending in the ditch. These channels are saving my bacon in repairs. The water runs off to the ditch instead of picking up speed and volume on the grade. It keeps my road in reasonable shape, but is a bit of a pain to maintain, but maintenance on a washed out road would be so very much more.

 

[davygp38]

Our hunting club is accessed by a long steep road, that has worn down over the years to something similar to a log flume. All I can say is, get the road right from the beginning. In our case the part that looks like a flume, is straight up the hill, and steep. The only way to fix it is to cut down the sides, build large ditches and crown It. All of which is our of league. On the good side, the kids love bouncing up the road.

 

[Oldchuck]

From looking at your picture I suspect your little road will be gone after the first winter. You get a lot of rain, right? The soil looks pretty crumbly? Your steep slope will reassert itself quickly. Road gone.

Don't know how much trouble you want to go to keep that path open but, in my opinion, you will need a combination of all that has been suggested so far: ditch, culvert(s), sloped hard surface, and retaining wall. Wider too.

 

[Johndeere3720]

So it sounds like i need to make the road wider with a slope on the left side so the water runs off the hill. I dont have any rocks except a small pile that is probably under a million weeds now. My step mom is worried that it will be muddy on the road in the winter, it is kind of obvious if the horses use it to get from the back corner to the barn. Some of the road closer to the barn has grass growing which will hold that part together this winter. Maybe to get that excess dirt off of the left side i can use my grader blade to pull it up onto the road, scrape it off and put it by the gate in the picture. Then I will use the skidsteer to dig a little deeper to make the road wider and on solid ground which the road is currently on 90% solid ground. I will also take pictures in the process. It will be a few weeks though since im going horse camping with my grandparents. Oregon is kind of weird, winter has mud and 3 days of dry and its all dust.

 

[Ken45101]

I don't know your soil type, but around here we certainly don't need retaining walls.

Yes, the bank on the right will erode some and will eventually reach an angle. I try to dig a bit extra to leave room for that. Eventually I will make another run down it to clean it up some, but I have hillside trails like that that have lasted for years without problems.

Your road looks good to me except that I would grade off the left side so that the water can run across the road and off, rather than being caught and forced to run down the road.

If you are really interested, the USFS has an excellent book on bridal trail building and maintenance. Lots of good info in it, and it's free

Ken

 

[schmism]

hear is were a good qualty rear blade comes into play.

offset it to one side with a slant and you can easly and saftly drive on the road while the 2-3' of blade reaches past the edge of the tractor and grades the material off the edge for you.

that job is one that a box blade cant do no matter how skillled you are.