New Kuhn Disc MoCo

[gf5205]

I have been thinking about a new hay mower for awhile. I have used a JD1207 MoCo since 94 and it was a huge improvement over the Ford sickle that I'd used since 75. I've followed every thread about producing hay and there were different opinions on the need for conditioning grass hay.

I wanted a disc MoCo but was concerned about the power requirements. I have two 50 HP tractors and didn't want to go any bigger because of cost, and I'm only haying 30 acres with a yield of about 4000 small squares in one cutting. The disc MoCo reuirements started at about 60 HP so I thought I was going to end up with a new NH Haybine for about $13k. I went to ask the advice of my JD dealer and he thought I could handle a KUHN 243 which is a 7'10" disc MoCo with a flail conditioner.

The reason I was looking new is that my wife gets most of the seat time while I'm at work, so I want something reliable. Also, a new mower should last last as long as I'll keep haying, I'll be 56 next month. My wife said if you're only going to buy one more mower, what are you waiting for?

My dealer promised not to stick me with it if it didn't work out, so I ordered it.

I've mowed about 10 acres with my JD5203 and I have plenty of power to mow. I've mowed at up to 5 MPH, but my tractor gets pushed around the corners at that speed, and the fields aren't real smooth, so I've been mowing at 3.75 MPH, the same as my 1207. Maybe I'll learn how to negotiate the corners better for more speed. I have 400 lbs on the front now, maybe I'll add some. Any advice on corners?

In any event, I think it's going to work out real good, and the cost was less than I expected. The KUHN lists for $17400 plus $400 freight. I traded the 1207 for $3800 for a net of $14k. Since the dealer advertises the 243 for $15k the real trade was $1k for a unit I bought 13 years ago. It was in good shape then, but was probably new in the late 60's or early 70's. The thing that pushed me to make the move was that the rubber was getting thin on the rolls - and new rolls cost $5k plus labor.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Greg

 

[zzvyb6]

Would you explain "pushed arounnd the corners" ? Does this mean that some front tractor weights would help you stay planted to the ground. This helped my situation immensly. 300# on the front keeps my nose down and front tires firmly in control.

 

[plowrup]

I believe your 1209 was made for Deere by Kuhn-it was a great Machine. I am a Kuhn Dealer also, but am wondering why your Dealer didn't talk about the Deere 525 Mo-Co?

As far as the Kuhn goes, I think you are looking at their best design, and they make good Equipment, although I only push them when I'm out of my main line of Inventory-New Haolland has a suspect desing on their Mo-Co's. I really lik Kuhn's Impeller Conditioner, it is heavily built-we've sold a bunch of them and have had good results-the only problem I have with Kuhn? Resale value-they will not bring the kind of Money a "main line" brand will, and Kuhn is struggling to maintain Market Share although it is well built-just my .02

 

[gf5205]

Would you explain "pushed arounnd the corners" ? Does this mean that some front tractor weights would help you stay planted to the ground. This helped my situation immensly. 300# on the front keeps my nose down and front tires firmly in control.

Yes, that's what I mean.
I don't have much of a problem a 3.75 mph, but at 5 mph when I turn a corner the tractor skids a bit, especially since the inside rear wheel is usually on the previous swath when I apply the steering brake. The tractor weighs about 5000 pounds plus loaded tires plus 400# on the front. Maybe I need to learn a new way of driving the square corners that I end up with.

 

[gf5205]

I believe your 1209 was made for Deere by Kuhn-it was a great Machine. I am a Kuhn Dealer also, but am wondering why your Dealer didn't talk about the Deere 525 Mo-Co?

He said that the JD MoCos needed more power for the same width as the KUHN and I am well under the HP stated in the specs as is. I also remember seeing on the JD website that they require a cab tractor for the disc MoCos, and I don't have a cab. I imagine that this has to do with flying rocks.

 

[HayDR]

I have been thinking about a new hay mower for awhile. I have used a JD1207 MoCo since 94 and it was a huge improvement over the Ford sickle that I'd used since 75. I've followed every thread about producing hay and there were different opinions on the need for conditioning grass hay.

I wanted a disc MoCo but was concerned about the power requirements. I have two 50 HP tractors and didn't want to go any bigger because of cost, and I'm only haying 30 acres with a yield of about 4000 small squares in one cutting. The disc MoCo requirements started at about 60 HP so I thought I was going to end up with a new NH Haybine for about $13k. I went to ask the advice of my JD dealer and he thought I could handle a KUHN 243 which is a 7'10" disc MoCo with a flail conditioner.

The reason I was looking new is that my wife gets most of the seat time while I'm at work, so I want something reliable. Also, a new mower should last last as long as I'll keep haying, I'll be 56 next month. My wife said if you're only going to buy one more mower, what are you waiting for?

My dealer promised not to stick me with it if it didn't work out, so I ordered it.

I've mowed about 10 acres with my JD5203 and I have plenty of power to mow. I've mowed at up to 5 MPH, but my tractor gets pushed around the corners at that speed, and the fields aren't real smooth, so I've been mowing at 3.75 MPH, the same as my 1207. Maybe I'll learn how to negotiate the corners better for more speed. I have 400 lbs on the front now, maybe I'll add some. Any advice on corners?

In any event, I think it's going to work out real good, and the cost was less than I expected. The KUHN lists for $17400 plus $400 freight. I traded the 1207 for $3800 for a net of $14k. Since the dealer advertises the 243 for $15k the real trade was $1k for a unit I bought 13 years ago. It was in good shape then, but was probably new in the late 60's or early 70's. The thing that pushed me to make the move was that the rubber was getting thin on the rolls - and new rolls cost $5k plus labor.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Greg

Some extra weight may help stabilize the tractor but also realize if you are used to traveling 3-4 miles and hour and once you up the speed any tractor in the field will not corner like an auto on asphalt. Most of the operators that grew up with 2 wheel drive tractors in the 60's,70's, & 80's learned to steer via the rear wheel brakes. You have fine equipment and learning how best to operate the new set-up will be a key to your satisfaction. It is safe and you seem to have enough power to oprerate your new mower. Unless you traded for a much larger tractor, you likely would not feel much difference in the seat of your pants and always have some feeling like you are skating around and will feel the weight of the set-up in the seat of you pants when you change direction.

 

[Hay Pirate]

Corners are real tricky. If you're mower is to your right side try slightly going out to the left before the turn then back right to make the corner, that way all of the weight isn't pushing you forward. However, after a while you'll get a arrow head at your corner.

Or, you can go straight out of the turn, just go straight, lift up the mower make a wide left and you'll end up right where the mower goes right into hay you were going to turn into making a perfect square corner. You can't do this on the first turns when you're mowing in a enclosed field and is hard to do on hills!

Or just use the wheel brakes, make sure you don't jack-knife!

I've logged a lot of hours with my JD MoCo 926 but I have a heavier tractor, JD 5520, pulls it with ease. For people who know what I'm talking about, I mow in the B range, on flat parts, pedal to the metal B-4. Turns are hassle for me too.

 

[gf5205]

Some extra weight may help stabilize the tractor but also realize if you are used to traveling 3-4 miles and hour and once you up the speed any tractor in the field will not corner like an auto on asphalt. Most of the operators that grew up with 2 wheel drive tractors in the 60's,70's, & 80's learned to steer via the rear wheel brakes. You have fine equipment and learning how best to operate the new set-up will be a key to your satisfaction. It is safe and you seem to have enough power to oprerate your new mower. Unless you traded for a much larger tractor, you likely would not feel much difference in the seat of your pants and always have some feeling like you are skating around and will feel the weight of the set-up in the seat of you pants when you change direction.

My tractor is 2 wheel drive. I also have one the same size with 4 wheel drive. I'll have to see if that makes a difference. Thanks for making me think of it!
I was pleasantly surprised that power doesn't seem to be a problem.
Greg

 

[gf5205]

Corners are real tricky. If you're mower is to your right side try slightly going out to the left before the turn then back right to make the corner, that way all of the weight isn't pushing you forward. However, after a while you'll get a arrow head at your corner.

Or, you can go straight out of the turn, just go straight, lift up the mower make a wide left and you'll end up right where the mower goes right into hay you were going to turn into making a perfect square corner. You can't do this on the first turns when you're mowing in a enclosed field and is hard to do on hills!

Or just use the wheel brakes, make sure you don't jack-knife!

I'll have to try that move to left. Just the kind of tip I was hoping for. I use the wheel brakes, but if the right rear is on the previous swath I skid even worse. I don't think that clean corners are worth the left hand 270. I'll live with the arrow head.
thanks
Greg

 

[farmerjim]

i was looking into the same mower did you get the swivel hitch or stay w/ conventional hitch? i really like the swivel design and seems like i would make it easier on the corners. i was also looking at the older fc mowers that kuhn has as well. although none of my tractors have the hp required, i would need 2 upgrade 1 of them as well, but it sure would save my time/money to upgrade from the old jd sickle and nh 404 conditioner, i use now. one less pass to make conditioning/mowing all in one.

 

[gf5205]

i was looking into the same mower did you get the swivel hitch or stay w/ conventional hitch? i really like the swivel design and seems like i would make it easier on the corners. i was also looking at the older fc mowers that kuhn has as well. although none of my tractors have the hp required, i would need 2 upgrade 1 of them as well, but it sure would save my time/money to upgrade from the old jd sickle and nh 404 conditioner, i use now. one less pass to make conditioning/mowing all in one.

I got the swivel hitch. The PTO shaft stays straight no matter how hard you turn.
I used a Ford sickle that I bought new in '75 for 20 years. It was hard to keep adjusted to keep it from chattering in the fine grass. I usually went through more than one pitmann a year. I had a New Idea conditioner that ran after the sickle. I think that conditioner with a steel roll and a rubber roll conditioned the grass better than the rolls on the 1207, but it would plug up or wrap hay around bearings at the end of the rolls. I got tired of getting off the tractor so often.
Another option is a NH haybine. They don't take much power to operate.
Greg

 

[slowzuki]

Hello, on a 6500 lb 50 hp tractor the NH 489 will shove me around if I don't slow down for corners. If the grass is wet I have a hard time getting turned on some corners without really slowing down.

Using our 4wd tractor helps on the turns but running with the 4wd engaged seems to burn more fuel and I hate the wear.

 

[gf5205]

Hello, on a 6500 lb 50 hp tractor the NH 489 will shove me around if I don't slow down for corners. If the grass is wet I have a hard time getting turned on some corners without really slowing down.

Using our 4wd tractor helps on the turns but running with the 4wd engaged seems to burn more fuel and I hate the wear.

I'm going to try my 4wd if we get any second crop. (We got some rain this week, but it's been dry.) Just the greater weight up front alone may help. I see you have an HST, but I have a collar shift and slowing for the corners would have to be by throttling down, hmmmm. Thanks.
Greg

 

[slowzuki]

This is with the 2wd Case/IH 585 as well, weighs about the same, no hst but does have syncro tranny.

I'm going to try my 4wd if we get any second crop. (We got some rain this week, but it's been dry.) Just the greater weight up front alone may help. I see you have an HST, but I have a collar shift and slowing for the corners would have to be by throttling down, hmmmm. Thanks.
Greg

 

[gf5205]

This is with the 2wd Case/IH 585 as well, weighs about the same, no hst but does have syncro tranny.

Synchro would be nice, but the teeny amount of grass I've been leaving only wounds my pride, not my pocketbook - so an upgrade would not be productive, fun, but not productive
Greg

 

[slowzuki]

I used to shift the collar shift tractors where I worked on the fly by double clutching but I wasn't mowing so I didn't have to worry about the 2 stage clutch stalling out the mower.

 

[gf5205]

I mowed about 5 acres of second crop yesterday. I used the mfwd 5205, but in 2wd and it made a big difference. I was able to mow at about 7 mph, and it felt like 5 mph with the 5203. Those big front tires and extra weight up front make a big difference. The little turn to the left also helped. The crop is very light, so I also tried slowing down a couple hundred rpms before the corner.
Greg