New Home Build. Plan Review.

[MGH PA]

Not sure I'm ready to turn this into a full build thread at this point, but would like feedback on our plans.

I'll give a little (short) background. My wife and I are planning to build on ~150 acres about 2 miles from where we live now. The property borders the eastern line of my parents property, and there will be an easement crossing their property to access this location as it's a much flatter and open access route than coming off the existing road to the farmhouse that's on the property now (we're keeping that and it's rented out).

Most of the contractor's we've spoken to are in agreement to allow us to finish what we want and sub out what we want (mainly our cabinetry, trim, and HVAC, and excavation). We're also planning on doing the stone veneer ourselves, finish the entire "guest room, office, bathroom, etc." We had a local draftsman who draws plans for most builders in the area (he's a retired builder) do the design over the past few months, and based on what our needs, I think we have something we really can work with (with some minor modifications).

We're a family of 3 (soon to be 4), and we have friends that visit occasionally (1-3 hours away) so the guest bedroom will be utilized for that as well as a possible master suite if we age in place (which is why it's laid out the way it is).

Ideally, we wanted to keep the square footage below 3,000, but really couldn't do it without sacrificing a lot of the structural aesthetics, so we're going to just have to hope to save some costs with the DIY aspect, as well as cutting costs with some of the finishes.

The site will have a full E-W exposure at 1,000 feet of elevation. We designed the back of the house to take advantage of the views and the sunlight (hence the sizable windows in the family room).

ICF foundation (9'), 9' first floor (14' vaulted in family room), 8' second floor. 2x6 walls with NuWool and possibly 2" foam on the exterior sheathing.

Here are the final construction drawings (electrical is still subject to change).

Any questions or thoughts, feel free to fire away!

 

[KennyG]

Very impressive. It's got a lot of the features I would have recommended, especially the second floor laundry and the first floor bedroom for future one floor living. The only thing I say about the house is to make sure the first floor space is set up to allow for a laundry area also. I have laundry rooms on both 1st and 2nd floors and it works pretty well.

Not sure how the land is laid out but is it possible just to buy some of the land instead of having an easement? Simplifies things for the future unknowns.

 

[oosik]

Lordy - that is a BIG house. I've been retired 35 years now - retired at age of 40. A couple things I've noticed now that I'm 76. The four steps up to the porch and into the house get a little more difficult each year. A tri-level house isn't going to be that much fun when you get to my age. Recognizing that I have NO infirmities that limit my mobility. Also - my house is single level, ranch style, 1400 sq ft and I spend a lot more time than I like keeping the 1400 feet clean. I DO live way out in the country - nearest neighbor is 4+ miles distant - and do have dust and volcanic ash to contend with. I guess if I shut the windows and doors more often in the summer it wouldn't be quite the problem.

Anyhow - that is still a really big house and I'm just glad I don't have to maintain and clean something that size.

 

[MGH PA]

I should add the basement will be unfinished (aside from drywall install on ICF interior), and we're hoping to do Geothermal with the 30% credits back in place this year.

I agree on size. It was a major sticking point for me, but in reality, it is what it is. We're not showy people, and I don't want to come off as that at all. In fact, we've been trying to find ways to effectively cut square footage off without changing too much in terms of the structural/engineering aspect.

We live in a 2100 sq.ft home now and do just fine minus the complete lack of closet space, storage, and extremely small bathrooms.

 

[MGH PA]

Lordy - that is a BIG house. I've been retired 35 years now - retired at age of 40. A couple things I've noticed now that I'm 76. The four steps up to the porch and into the house get a little more difficult each year. A tri-level house isn't going to be that much fun when you get to my age. Recognizing that I have NO infirmities that limit my mobility. Also - my house is single level, ranch style, 1400 sq ft and I spend a lot more time than I like keeping the 1400 feet clean. I DO live way out in the country - nearest neighbor is 4+ miles distant - and do have dust and volcanic ash to contend with. I guess if I shut the windows and doors more often in the summer it wouldn't be quite the problem.

Anyhow - that is still a really big house and I'm just glad I don't have to maintain and clean something that size.

Hats of to you for retiring at 40. That's impressive. We invest heavily (401k, TSA, Pension, 529, IRA, and Roth), and minus my little truck payment which is done in 8 months, and our current mortgage, we don't carry any debt. When we send this out to bid, if they come back in our uncomfortable range, we just won't do it. I don't want this house effecting our financial stability in any way shape or form.

 

[Deerherd]

Here are some points to ponder and things I would change....

If that’s a real office where you need work to actually get done or have clients I would not have it next to the play room. Additionally having to walk through the playroom to get to the office could be problematic and the kids will be going through the office to hit the closest bathroom. (Provided they are done pooping in their pants.)

Having a door on the playroom is good, closing off the mess to the rest of the house is also good in theory. (Kids have a way of messing the whole house) If there is a stay at home parent with a home office who does not need the phone or client access and wants to keep an eye on the little curtain climbers, it may be a good setup. Most people today want to be able to watch their kids from the kitchen, which would be very difficult with your layout.

I would move the cubbies you have to above the bench on each side of the window and put a door on the pantry. When you carry the stuff from the garage you can go right into the pantry, not all the way around.

I would also reconsider your outside access to the house. With 120 acres you will be bringing lots of the outside in and access to the main floor looks limited. Are you going to have a dog? Having an easy place to let the dog in and out and a convenient place to wash off the dog can be a HUGE mess saver. My dog has been trained to come in the house and jump in the tub which I have located right next to the door we use the most. Easy Peasy and a great addition for messy children also.

Just some of the things that jump out to me on the first floor....

 

[Groo]

I would tend to design a house to be more handicapped accessible if possible. More and more people are ending up having a hard time with stairs. Maybe not you, maybe you, but it will help resale either way. Even if you keep the general layout, I'd put the laundry room on the main floor, and do a chute to it from the upper floor.
The roof looks a little complicated, dormers and such. That gives more potential leak points. If you go with asphalt shingles, you'll have to redo that complicated roof at least 3 times by the time you hit your 70s. I would favor standing seam and dumping the dormers.

 

[MGH PA]

Here are some points to ponder and things I would change....

If that’s a real office where you need work to actually get done or have clients I would not have it next to the play room. Additionally having to walk through the playroom to get to the office could be problematic and the kids will be going through the office to hit the closest bathroom. (Provided they are done pooping in their pants.)

Having a door on the playroom is good, closing off the mess to the rest of the house is also good in theory. (Kids have a way of messing the whole house) If there is a stay at home parent with a home office who does not need the phone or client access and wants to keep an eye on the little curtain climbers, it may be a good setup. Most people today want to be able to watch their kids from the kitchen, which would be very difficult with your layout.

I would move the cubbies you have to above the bench on each side of the window and put a door on the pantry. When you carry the stuff from the garage you can go right into the pantry, not all the way around.

I would also reconsider your outside access to the house. With 120 acres you will be bringing lots of the outside in and access to the main floor looks limited. Are you going to have a dog? Having an easy place to let the dog in and out and a convenient place to wash off the dog can be a HUGE mess saver. My dog has been trained to come in the house and jump in the tub which I have located right next to the door we use the most. Easy Peasy and a great addition for messy children also.

Just some of the things that jump out to me on the first floor....

Great points. The office is nothing for clients. Just where my computer, filing cabinets, etc. will go. Basically where I do my photo editing, pay bills, and keep all paper work filed away. We both work outside of the home.

The line of sight for the playroom was an issue for us, and we tried multiple times to get the room more in line, but it always required changing the great room structure, and making the roofline even more complex.

The pantry door is funny. My wife actually came up with that idea (although she mentioned using a half door there to slide stuff onto the counters in the pantry. Either way, we plan to add that.

We don't have a dog, but the access for us will be mostly through the walk out basement or the garage into the mudroom. The main entrance will primarily used for visitors. The garage can also be entered from both the front and back side of the house without having to use the garage doors. Is there something else you're hinting at with access?

Thanks for the input!

 

[MGH PA]

I would tend to design a house to be more handicapped accessible if possible. More and more people are ending up having a hard time with stairs. Maybe not you, maybe you, but it will help resale either way. Even if you keep the general layout, I'd put the laundry room on the main floor, and do a chute to it from the upper floor.
The roof looks a little complicated, dormers and such. That gives more potential leak points. If you go with asphalt shingles, you'll have to redo that complicated roof at least 3 times by the time you hit your 70s. I would favor standing seam and dumping the dormers.

Good points. I'm planning to change the doors for 2-8's to 3-0's where possible, and 2-6s to 2-8s where possible to help. The guest room/office/bath/playroom can all be converted to a master suite along with laundry someday if necessary. However, we have thought long and hard, and probably won't want to live in a house this size if we get to that point in life, so not sure what to do about that.

 

[EddieWalker]

I would never, EVER put the master bedroom upstairs.

I would be very very hesitant to build a two story house is I had space to make it all one story.

Play rooms sound like a nice idea, but they really just become a junk room to store stuff in a hurry when you want to clean up the house real fast. Kids are going to play with their toys where you are hanging out. Usually in the TV room. Or they play in their bedrooms.

That little bump out for the guest bedroom, office area is some expensive square footage.

I really like the kitchen/great room/ dining room layout. Nice and open so everyone can be together.

Bathroom remodels are a big part of what I do for a living and I would never have a shower head facing the door. In fact, most of my jobs are showers that do not have a door, or a lip to step over.

Kids bedrooms are really nice. I'm not a huge fan of jack and jill bathrooms, but if they have to share a bathroom, and nobody else has to use it, they work.

Laundry room looks really nice. Good to have it close to the bedrooms and big enough to do everything. Best layouts I've ever seen had a laundry room in the master closet, and anther laundry room for the kids. I'm personally moving my laundry room into my master closet one of these days.

Where is your mechanical room? Where will you have to go to change your AC Filter and add bleach to your drain line?

I'm sure it will be a nice house when you are done with it, but if I was out looking for a house to buy, I would not buy this house because of the Master being upstairs. That alone would kill the deal for me.

 

[Groo]

Thats why you have to plan on resale to some degree.

Even a good sprained ankle would be enough to not make stairs fun for awhile. I didn't much care for my stairs after gall bladder surgury for a bit.

 

[NorTracNY]

I agree with Eddie response. I can't imagine having a master bedroom not on the first floor. I understand you're young since you have another child on the way, but I can't imagine ever planning on living in such a large house when I'm old. More space is just more stuff to clean. I've learned that half the things you store are just things you haven't sold, donated, given away thrown out. Also a bigger house just means that EVERYTHING else will cost more. Heating/AC, new roof, more repairs...

I also can't understand the concept of a kids play room. What will that room be when your youngest child is 8-10 years old? Give them bedrooms and teach them to pick things up that they bring out of their bedrooms to play. With 150acres, I'd be more focused on what your kids will do outside the house.

My youngest is 8. Lives change. I see a nice house in your drawings, but I certainly wouldn't want it. My family and land keep me busy enough. I'd hate to have a large house to maintain on top of that.

 

[MGH PA]

I would never, EVER put the master bedroom upstairs.

Wife wants to be on the same floor as the kids when they're little. I lost that battle

I would be very very hesitant to build a two story house is I had space to make it all one story.

Wouldn't mind that, but the footprint would be huge since I don't want a finished basement, and it's cheaper to build up than out.

Play rooms sound like a nice idea, but they really just become a junk room to store stuff in a hurry when you want to clean up the house real fast. Kids are going to play with their toys where you are hanging out. Usually in the TV room. Or they play in their bedrooms.

I agree somewhat, but it will limit the amount of spread out clutter. My son's toys stay in two main spots in our house now as it is, and we're teaching him to clean up (he's pretty good for a two year old), so I think having a dedicated space makes sense for us. Plus, it will be a "workstation" area of sorts for them to work on projects, homework, etc. as they get older. We don't want them up in their rooms online and watching TV (there will be no TVs in their rooms.

That little bump out for the guest bedroom, office area is some expensive square footage.

Agreed. Will try to minimize the hit but finishing everything in that "wing" myself.

I really like the kitchen/great room/ dining room layout. Nice and open so everyone can be together.

Bathroom remodels are a big part of what I do for a living and I would never have a shower head facing the door. In fact, most of my jobs are showers that do not have a door, or a lip to step over.

The bathroom layout is one we struggled with a lot, and still may change that around. I didn't want to fur out a wall for plumbing on an exterior wall, but we do have a plan B and C.

Kids bedrooms are really nice. I'm not a huge fan of jack and jill bathrooms, but if they have to share a bathroom, and nobody else has to use it, they work.

Yeah, I'm indifferent. This was also my wife's idea and must have

Laundry room looks really nice. Good to have it close to the bedrooms and big enough to do everything. Best layouts I've ever seen had a laundry room in the master closet, and anther laundry room for the kids. I'm personally moving my laundry room into my master closet one of these days.

Where is your mechanical room? Where will you have to go to change your AC Filter and add bleach to your drain line?

In the basement centrally located near the stairs. Will have a "Utilities" area framed out, just not in the plans. Need to decide on HVAC to proceed with that.

I'm sure it will be a nice house when you are done with it, but if I was out looking for a house to buy, I would not buy this house because of the Master being upstairs. That alone would kill the deal for me.

Thanks for the great things to think about. I appreciate the honesty and suggestions

See above for replies. Made it easier...I think

 

[MGH PA]

I agree with Eddie response. I can't imagine having a master bedroom not on the first floor. I understand you're young since you have another child on the way, but I can't imagine ever planning on living in such a large house when I'm old. More space is just more stuff to clean. I've learned that half the things you store are just things you haven't sold, donated, given away thrown out. Also a bigger house just means that EVERYTHING else will cost more. Heating/AC, new roof, more repairs...

I also can't understand the concept of a kids play room. What will that room be when your youngest child is 8-10 years old? Give them bedrooms and teach them to pick things up that they bring out of their bedrooms to play. With 150acres, I'd be more focused on what your kids will do outside the house.

My youngest is 8. Lives change. I see a nice house in your drawings, but I certainly wouldn't want it. My family and land keep me busy enough. I'd hate to have a large house to maintain on top of that.

Yep, I agree with most of your points. The whole reason for the play room, office, guest bedroom setup is to be able to transition from as it appears, to a work room for the kids, and then most importantly, a master area for us when we're older. One of the major sticking points for us on this area of the house was its size.

 

[fishheadbob]

I like it. I didn't squint long enough to see if you have some backup for the geothermal as they need electric to run.
I also don't see any problem with the second floor master, it will keep you young. I'm 70, when we did the last remodel we put hidden bones in place for a first floor master but hopefully we won't ever get that decrepit to where we need to finish the job. The view from upstairs is spectacular.
My parents lived in an honest to god mansion (they could afford it) but handled the long stairs until their deaths at 88 and 90. My mother would resist and say that it was good therapy for her broken hip recovery. The old man would beg her to let him put in a 1st floor master but she would just say she wasn't that old yet. He would always take 8 flights of stairs in a hotel to keep in shape, after the hip Mom would have to take the elevator. She wouldn't use a handicapped parking spot as that was for people who had let themselves go.

 

[dmccarty]

Good points. I'm planning to change the doors for 2-8's to 3-0's where possible, and 2-6s to 2-8s where possible to help. The guest room/office/bath/playroom can all be converted to a master suite along with laundry someday if necessary. However, we have thought long and hard, and probably won't want to live in a house this size if we get to that point in life, so not sure what to do about that.

When I designed our house all interior doors were a minimum 36 inch wide. We have one exterior 36 inch door and three 60 inch French door sets. The French doors allow for easy movement of appliances in and out of the house either with the tractor FEL or from a truck. Make sure all "passage ways" are at least 36 inches wide to make it easy to move appliances and furniture.

Why not make the house take advantage of passive solar? It is not hard to do, is cheap, does not require ongoing expenses and does help the heating of the house.

Given you are in the freezing cold of PA, are you planing to use radiant heating? It could be based on solar and gas/oil/wood.

As others have said, put in features that are ADA compliant. You might not stay in the home in your old age but the population is aging so having ADA features will make it easier to live in and help sell in the future.

Our shower has no stall lip or door and works just fine. SOOOO handy to be able to move a heavy bucket or cooler full of water into the shower on a dolly and just dump it out.

Later,
Dan

 

[MGH PA]

I like it. I didn't squint long enough to see if you have some backup for the geothermal as they need electric to run.
I also don't see any problem with the second floor master, it will keep you young. I'm 70, when we did the last remodel we put hidden bones in place for a first floor master but hopefully we won't ever get that decrepit to where we need to finish the job. The view from upstairs is spectacular.
My parents lived in an honest to god mansion (they could afford it) but handled the long stairs until their deaths at 88 and 90. My mother would resist and say that it was good therapy for her broken hip recovery. The old man would beg her to let him put in a 1st floor master but she would just say she wasn't that old yet. He would always take 8 flights of stairs in a hotel to keep in shape, after the hip Mom would have to take the elevator. She wouldn't use a handicapped parking spot as that was for people who had let themselves go.

Sorry about the size. I was trying to find a sweet spot in size for sharing online and I think I took it a little too far.

It's not in the plans, but most likely a whole house generator.

 

[MGH PA]

When I designed our house all interior doors were a minimum 36 inch wide. We have one exterior 36 inch door and three 60 inch French door sets. The French doors allow for easy movement of appliances in and out of the house either with the tractor FEL or from a truck. Make sure all "passage ways" are at least 36 inches wide to make it easy to move appliances and furniture.

Why not make the house take advantage of passive solar? It is not hard to do, is cheap, does not require ongoing expenses and does help the heating of the house.

Given you are in the freezing cold of PA, are you planing to use radiant heating? It could be based on solar and gas/oil/wood.

As others have said, put in features that are ADA compliant. You might not stay in the home in your old age but the population is aging so having ADA features will make it easier to live in and help sell in the future.

Our shower has no stall lip or door and works just fine. SOOOO handy to be able to move a heavy bucket or cooler full of water into the shower on a dolly and just dump it out.

Later,
Dan

Yep, I've included in the bid request to have quotes for Nudura and Creatherm panels in the basement (and possibly the garage).

 

[TractorGuy]

I will echo what some others have said but being in a lower income bracket my thoughts may not relate.

Things I considered when I built my house in 93 were: I plan to live here till death, I didn't want any high maintenance materials used, and I didn't want to pay utilities for a lot of square footage. I didn't want any stairs to climb as I aged and I even had the fireplace removed from the plan and used it for more closet space. (give me a thermostat for comfort any ol day) I settled on a ranch style that has 1200 sq ft living space with a 444 sq ft attached garage. I had the garage finished, insulated, and ducted for HVAC in case I later wanted to convert it to living space. (it remains a work shop with room for the wife's car) My main regret is I would have liked a larger master bath with a walk in shower.

I was not allowed to have the construction I wanted. My original plan was a metal building converted to a house using fire code sheet rock inside and making the whole thing as non flammable as possible. Lenders would not go for owner/contractor or non conventional construction so we went with a regular stick built house.

We did a 2x4 frame with OSB sheathing and plywood corners for strength. That was covered with tar paper and vinyl siding for durability and maintenance. We had wood porch railings which I just tore out instead of stripping for paint again. I clean the outside once a year with a 50% bleach solution.

KNOW YOUR CONTRACTOR! Building a house is one of the most stressful times in anyone's life. My contractor made it especially so. I would see things about to go wrong and tell him about it and he would do nothing. His philosophy was he paid the subs to do it and if they messed it up he would make them fix it. The problem with that mindset is you end up with a bunch of patched areas that could have been built right to start with. I will give a couple of examples. We were living on the property in a mobile home so I could see the progress every morning and evening. When they were about to pour the slab I walked out the door and noticed a vent pipe leaning outward and touching the form board. I told the contractor to make sure they addressed it before pouring the concrete. I came home to find a slab poured with that pipe just as it was when I left. They ended up having to frame around that section so the concrete could be broken out to repair the crooked pipe. When the roof trusses arrived I noticed one was not aligned with the others on the front porch area. I called the contractor and asked him to have the truss company fix it before they were put up. He insisted they were okay without even looking at them. I told him they were banded together and matched all the way from front to back EXCEPT one was higher at about 2 feet from the over hang. Sure enough they put everything on including the sheathing and had to tear it out from underneath and do another patch job to get the roof line level. There were many other issues like this and at the end I ran them off my property with some things not finished. Seems every time they came back they would tear up more than they fixed.

 

[prichard]

The house we just sold was 3000+ sq ft tri-level. I was never so glad to be out of that house. We are now living in a 1200 sq ft mobile home while we build. It is too small but we were both so relieved to have everything close and easy to clean. Now, you are younger that us I assume due to "child on the way". Mind you we are in our early 50's but we have age on our mind.

I were in your shoes I'd be aiming for around 2500 sq ft ranch on walkout basement. Basement could become man cave, play room, teen hang out, etc. I'd put a bath in the basement and a guest BR. 2 Heat/AC systems - main and basement. Now some folks don't like ranches because they are too plain. Think outside the box a little, it can be U or L or T shaped. You could go a little more "Cape Cod" style and put just guest bed and bath on the second floor so it's still tri-level but you can mostly forget about the 2nd floor and heat/cool with a mini split to save enregy.

With a layout like that later in life you can forget the basement and just live on the main floor.


If you wish to stick with the larger plan but plan for the future consider carefully where the house is placed so you can sell it off along with an acre or so. Use the proceeds of that sale to build the retirement home elsewhere on the property. With this plan you need to work hard to make this house attractive to buyers. You may want to ask a local realtor to give input to that aspect. As others have said, master on main is a major selling point. Around here master on main homes sell for 10 - 15% higher than same house, neighborhood, sq ft as without, and they sell a lot faster.