New Guy with a Ford 1700

[msg1956]

Hello Everyone

I am another new guy, with all kinds of questions. I have posted a short intro in the introduction forum for those who are interested.

I own a 1983 Ford 1700 tractor for the past 25 years or so. I use it mainly for work around our backyard farm, and plowing snow in my very difficult driveway. Anyway, I finally managed to blow the clutch yesterday. I am truly surprised it lasted this long. While I try not to abuse the tractor, my driveway is a real bear to plow, and I have used the tractor for so many projects that probably would have been better handled by a bigger machine. I have no idea how good a machine the New Hollands are, but this Ford tractor has been amazing!

Unfortunately, I don't have a garage, and will do most of the repair work on my own. I have the factory manuals, and am waiting for the weather to improve to start this project. Hopefully, we have seen our last large snowstorm of the season!

The tractor still moves, my problem is getting it into/out of gear. I don't know what is broken (the loader assembly blocks the inspection hole), but no matter what I have to break the machine in half to fix it. My plan is to get the tractor onto one of the few level spots in my driveway, on a sheet of plywood or two to provide a smooth, roll-able surface. Remove the loader assembly, block up the rear half, disconnect all appropriate plumbing/wiring, split the machine, and roll the front end forward with a pallet jack. I know I need to chock the front axle to keep the front end from tipping, but was wondering if anyone had any other tips that the manual doesn't cover? I never have any luck with forum search engines, always getting hundreds of results, so any links that would address my problem would also be appreciated.

I am also wondering on what repair parts to purchase. Ebay is full of clutch kits that are advertised for the 1700, all of which are around $200+-. One thing I don't want is to put in a cheap setup, only to have to do all this again in a year! But, I also don't want to pay some outrageous OEM type price. Suggestions?

Once I get the clutch finished, I have two more issues. First, the tractor is getting hard to start. It never liked to fire up in cold weather, but it is now taking a lot of starter cranking to get it to start. My usual procedure is to turn the engine over until I get some smoke from the muffler, then use the glow plugs to warm it up cylinders. When if finally starts, I get quite a bit of black smoke. I was wondering if this meant the injectors need cleaning?

Then, I need to do brakes.

Wow, that is quite a first post! Thanks for your indulgence!:wave:

 

[deerseeker001]

Welcome from Wisconsin

 

[drakefamily2]

On starting, I use the glow plugs till they turn red and then crank, starts quickly.

 

[Creamer]

Welcome! Can't help you with the splitting as I have never done one. On starting the glow plug theory is to heat up the cylinder and then put in the fuel. Having fuel in the cylinder is not good for the system and will add soot although sometimes you do need to re-heat if it did not start the first time.

 

[billybobjimmyjoejack]

It sounds as though you have a good plan to split your tractor, it is not to complicated just lots of things that need to be disconnected.
I have done mine twice and it was much easier the second time.
I would suggest that you take some pictures as you do the disassembly as a reference if needed on the reassembly.

 

[square1]

Black smoke = incomplete combustion. That may be frpm the crank first, glow plugs second, crank again starting procedure. As others have stated: Glow plugs, then crank to start

How many hours are on the tractor? Have you ever adjusted the valves (recommended 1,000 hour maintenance)? In addition to high RPM cranking and fuel, diesels need high compression to start well.

 

[msg1956]

Thanks for the replies.

Well, I have been waiting for the weather to warm up some to start this. Since there is 6" of fresh snow out there this morning, and the temps are staying in the 20s - low 30s for the next week or two, I guess I will just keep waiting!

The good news is, I have a 580K Case to plow with now that the Ford is down. The bad news is, my driveway is all sloping, and the worn tires and wide bucket of the Case make it a PITA to use for plowing.

Back to the Ford: I had tried using the glow plugs first to warm the cylinders, and it just didn't seem to help all that much. The method I described, seemed to get the engine firing much quicker than using the glow plugs first. Also, I have been doing it for many seasons, and never had the black smoke before. I guess the tractor and I are just getting old!

No, I have not adjusted the valves. Probably something I need to do at the time of this overhaul.

Something else I have noticed. The hydraulic oil is pretty milky. I really cant find any place that would allow water in, so I was thinking it was just condensation. Because it ties into the loader circuit, about the only way I can think of totally replace the oil, is to do multiple oil changes, work the loader, and change the oil again until it is clean. Any other suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[ovrszd]

I put a clutch in my 3910 this past Winter. Splitting the tractor isn't that hard if you have the equipment/tools to do it. I built a wheeled stand for the front half so it could be rolled apart from the back, which was sitting on a fixed stand that I also built. Really helps if you have a concrete floor to work on.

After getting a lot of advice, I bought a new clutch rather than a cheaper rebuilt clutch. A&I Parts was the manufacturer of the clutch. They are in Iowa. I paid just under $400 for new clutch disc, pressure plate, throwout bearing, pilot bearing. Plan on resurfacing the flywheel at the same time. Also replace the engine crankshaft seal and the front seal in the transmission. Then you won't have to go back in for another 25 years.

As for the milky oil. If the tractor is in an uncontrolled environment all the time it is constantly condensing moisture in the gear boxes as it heats and cools. You need to change the transmission oil and the hydraulic oil periodically. Put in good quality oil, not the cheapest oil you can find. If you go "big/expensive" and switch to a synthetic oil you might notice an improvement in transmission shifting and better hydraulic response.

Post your progress in a new thread and everyone will help with any questions you might have as you go along. Here's a link to a thread I posted couple months ago. Might be some helpful info in there for you.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ting/331004-ford-3910-clutch-replacement.html

 

[msg1956]

Ovrszd

Thank you for your reply. The link to your thread is going to be incredibly helpful, as the two tractors are so similar in construction. I have it bookmarked for study!:thumbsup:

I will make sure I replace EVERY seal in the bell housing while I am at it. The idea mentioned in your thread about the freeze-out plugs is also a sound piece of advise. I had a 83 Dodge pick-up that rusted thru a freeze-out plug in this exact location. What a mess!

Unfortunately, there is no chance of me doing this job either inside, or on a concrete floor. About the best I can do is a sheet or two of 3/4" plywood as a platform, and maybe an awning! My plan is to block up the rear end, and build a frame on a heavy duty pallet, bolt it to the front end, and use a pallet jack to roll it apart/together. I actually come from a pretty good background for this project. My father and I had an excavation business, and we did almost all of our own tractor maintenance. I have done some motor changes, track changes, and loads of hydraulics and wiring. My present job is with a company that manufacturers large electric industrial de-watering pumps, and use tools every day. A fellow mechanic from work has offered his help, and he will be especially handy when it is time to pull the tractor back together!

I figured the water in the oil was from condensation. It has gotten so bad it actually prevented the hydraulic system from working when the temperatures were down in the single digits. I am hoping two total oil changes will get the water out.

One thing I am really concerned with is the source for the clutch assembly. Like I said, Ebay is loaded with $200 new kits, and I get the feeling if I go to a local supply store, they will just give me something of a similar origin. Calling the New Holland dealer may just get me an overpriced aftermarket kit as well. It is sometimes hard to find OEM parts for a 1983, Japanese made tractor.

While I am at it, I am going to change the anti-freeze, oil in the front axle, fix the oil seal leak on the drive shaft, and do the brakes. Fun, Fun, Fun!:confused2:

 

[ovrszd]

I look forward to reading of your repair adventures. Keep your optimistic attitude and it will go well. I was Blessed and spoiled to have a warm concrete floored shop to do my work in. I've done a lot of work outside over the years. And much of it on dirt or plywood as well. Dedicates you to the work for sure.

 

[msg1956]

Well, the weather finally got good enough to crawl around on the ground (I am not as young as I used to be). So, it begins!

I used my backhoe to hold the loader arms up while I backed out of them, then shifted them out of the way.



I spent the rest of the afternoon taking off the loader mount. There are a LOT of cracks that need repair. I knew there would be. Although I operate this little tractor as carefully as I can, I do a lot of work with it (much more then this motorized wheelbarrow was designed to do). I have a 580K Case, but my yard is very sloped, which makes it very hard use the wider bucket (and almost impossible to snow plow).

Today I will remove all the steering, fuel, and electrical connections (along with the 4WD driveshaft). I have a small skid I will build a platform on to support the front end, and use a pallet jack to separate the two halves. Luckily, I found a spot that is relatively level, so I don't have to do the work in front of my house!

The pins in the 770 loader are badly worn. Does anyone have a source for replacement loader pins? They are all 1" OD. Thanks!

 

[msg1956]

Got it apart!



Not really that hard to do, just a LOT of things to disconnect! The real trick is going to be to line everything up when it goes back together. I took it apart by myself, but I may need a hand getting everything to line up when I slide back together.

Gee, I wonder why the clutch stopped working?

 

[Creamer]

I think you may have found the problem.

 

[msg1956]

Well, the good news is, the pressure plate going left fabric on the clutch. So, my flywheel is not really worn badly. The clutch didn't chatter at all, so I am thinking I am just going to leave the flywheel alone. However, does anyone have a good method for removing the pilot bearing from the end of the crankshaft?

 

[ovrszd]

They make a tool to do that. But who owns one of those right??

I used a foot long piece of rod, welded a washer on one end that was small enough to go inside the hole. Clamped a pair of vise grips on the other end. Slipped the washer in behind the bearing, then tapped on the vise grips with a small hammer and pulled mine out.

 

[msg1956]

They make a tool to do that. But who owns one of those right??

I used a foot long piece of rod, welded a washer on one end that was small enough to go inside the hole. Clamped a pair of vise grips on the other end. Slipped the washer in behind the bearing, then tapped on the vise grips with a small hammer and pulled mine out.

Sounds like a plan, thanks! I also discovered the trick of packing the blind hole thru the bearing with grease, bread, or wet paper, then driving in a rod that provides a tight fit to the ID of the bearing. The resulting pressure pushes the bearing out (thanks YouTube). I will try this first.

 

[ovrszd]

Mine came out very easily. I was lucky.

Anxious to see results of your reassembly. Hope it all goes well. As my Dad would say, "What this calls for is a high level of maturity". In other words, "Patience is a virtue".

 

[msg1956]

Mine came out very easily. I was lucky.

Anxious to see results of your reassembly. Hope it all goes well. As my Dad would say, "What this calls for is a high level of maturity". In other words, "Patience is a virtue".

Thanks for your good wishes! Having a background in repairing construction equipment, and making my living as an industrial mechanic, has given me a lot of experience (if not wisdom). Slow and steady always pays off!

I would love to pull the flywheel, and replace the rear main seal (as soon as I score a 2 1/2" socket to get the nut off). Are there any issues with prying out the seal around the end of the camshaft I should know about? I plan on prying it out with a screwdriver (haven't removed the flywheel, so I am guessing what it looks like in there), and then turning a piece of pvc pipe to act as a tool to drive the new seal on.

Thanks!

 

[ovrszd]

The main seal was very easy to remove and install for me. Shouldn't be a big deal. And I'd certainly want to replace it while there. As I mentioned in my thread, replace every seal in there while you are there.

 

[JEB Davis]

I found 1" pins at Tractor Supply Co for my 770 loader.
Best of luck with your clutch job.

I'll just pass on my experience with the brakes... several years ago I bought a used (1980, I think) 1700 and it's brakes were toast. I took off the covers and just a pile of powder fell out, lol. Pricing a new set of brake shoes just left me angry, so I decided to re-shoe them myself. Bought a few feet of 1/4" or 3/16" thick (can't exactly remember which) "brake/clutch lining" and some flat-head brass rivets from McMaster-Carr. The lining was the perfect width and thickness, so I just had to drill & countersink for the rivets, and rasped down the leading & trailing edges of the lining. They have worked great and saved a ton of money!