ekrampitzjr
Member
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2002
- Messages
- 44
- Location
- Drewryville, Virginia
- Tractor
- Mitsubishi D2000 II (= Satoh S630 Bull)
I'm cynical too. Not only have oil change intervals increased to 6,000-10,000 miles, but more and more vehicles are calling for 5W20 oil, which strikes me as a bit thin for long-term use, especially under hot conditions. The only way I would use 5W20 long-term would be with Red Line synthetic. Not only does Honda call for 5W20 in most of its new cars, but now its Acura arm is saying go 10,000 miles between changes? In my opinion, I smell a rat.
In a number of forums automotive techs (mechanics) have talked about just how bad engines are looking inside and how early they're failing from such long oil-change intervals. Those who stick to 3,000-mile oil and filter changes will get much more service from their engines, and techs say these engines look better inside. My hunch is that the automakers are specifying thin oil and long change intervals to encourage early purchase of remanufactured factory replacement engines down the road. Some of the more expensive vehicles have oil condition monitors that tell you when to change oil, but I'll bet that they don't come on until the oil is in really bad shape. The reality is that anything over about 5,000 miles is really pushing it with conventional oil, and perhaps 10,000-12,000 miles likewise for most synthetics. In both cases, in most engines the changes should come much sooner than these maximum mileages. Take it from someone who has studied oils and lubrication: skimping on oil and filters is a downright stupid way to save money.
Certain synthetic oil makers have made claims about being able to go incredibly high miles between changes such as the one mentioned above about Amsoil in an engine that blew because of oil starvation. In another thread in this forum, some posters have mentioned Amsoil's supposed claim that its 2-stroke oil can be used at 100:1 regardless of the manufacturer's recommended fuel-to-oil ratio. If the engine manufacturer says to change the oil at 5,000 miles regardless of oil type, you're playing with fire if you think you can go 20,000 miles with a synthetic instead, especially if the engine is under warranty. Likewise, if a 2-stroke engine calls for 40:1 mix and you use 100:1 because Amsoil claims you can, you probably should plan on buying a new engine sooner rather than later, in my opinion. Don't get me wrong. I like Amsoil products, and many of its oils are probably among the best you can buy. But you should be careful of the claims being made for the products, many of which may be coming from reps and not the factory, and I personally don't like to see products sold using multilevel marketing.
Here's another clue: Briggs and Stratton engine manuals explicitly say that you can use synthetics but the change intervals remain the same. You cannot extend the interval just because you're using synthetics.
Until recently, most motor vehicles did not differentiate between conventional and synthetic oils for oil change intervals, and even now most don't. In the late 1970s, Mobil 1 originally claimed you could go 12,000 miles or 6 months between changes, and a number of idiots fell for this line even though no manufacturers then were saying this was okay. Back then, 3,000 miles was the absolute maximum change interval, with auto diesels often calling for 1,500-mile intervals.
What about more recently? My 1997 Escort called for 3,000-mile intervals for severe duty (the schedule I used for the first 100,000+ miles) and 5,000-mile intervals for "normal" duty (which few drivers really qualify for), with no difference for synthetics. Only when I switched to Red Line 10W30 synthetic after over 100K miles on dino oil did I extend the oil change intervals to a conservative 6,000 miles, but I still change the filter every 3,000 miles. After I first switched, I had to change the filter even more frequently as it clogged with gunk that the synthetic dislodged from the oil system, and I changed the oil at 3,000 miles for the first couple of changes until I felt confident that the engine was clean. The Amsoil user mentioned above whose engine failed from oil starvation probably didn't do this. Even Amsoil claims you should use its engine flush in a high-mileage engine before switching. Of course, using any engine flush has severe risks of its own, and if you were to use one, you should at least figure on dropping the oil pan to scrape the gunk out before you refill the engine with new oil.
So for you tractor owners who think you can triple the hours between oil changes by using synthetics, take the hint from these posts and forget it. Synthetics have advantages in extreme conditions and in lubricity, but don't count of being able to use them for far longer before changing them. Oil is cheaper than an engine rebuild or a replacement engine any day of the week.
In a number of forums automotive techs (mechanics) have talked about just how bad engines are looking inside and how early they're failing from such long oil-change intervals. Those who stick to 3,000-mile oil and filter changes will get much more service from their engines, and techs say these engines look better inside. My hunch is that the automakers are specifying thin oil and long change intervals to encourage early purchase of remanufactured factory replacement engines down the road. Some of the more expensive vehicles have oil condition monitors that tell you when to change oil, but I'll bet that they don't come on until the oil is in really bad shape. The reality is that anything over about 5,000 miles is really pushing it with conventional oil, and perhaps 10,000-12,000 miles likewise for most synthetics. In both cases, in most engines the changes should come much sooner than these maximum mileages. Take it from someone who has studied oils and lubrication: skimping on oil and filters is a downright stupid way to save money.
Certain synthetic oil makers have made claims about being able to go incredibly high miles between changes such as the one mentioned above about Amsoil in an engine that blew because of oil starvation. In another thread in this forum, some posters have mentioned Amsoil's supposed claim that its 2-stroke oil can be used at 100:1 regardless of the manufacturer's recommended fuel-to-oil ratio. If the engine manufacturer says to change the oil at 5,000 miles regardless of oil type, you're playing with fire if you think you can go 20,000 miles with a synthetic instead, especially if the engine is under warranty. Likewise, if a 2-stroke engine calls for 40:1 mix and you use 100:1 because Amsoil claims you can, you probably should plan on buying a new engine sooner rather than later, in my opinion. Don't get me wrong. I like Amsoil products, and many of its oils are probably among the best you can buy. But you should be careful of the claims being made for the products, many of which may be coming from reps and not the factory, and I personally don't like to see products sold using multilevel marketing.
Here's another clue: Briggs and Stratton engine manuals explicitly say that you can use synthetics but the change intervals remain the same. You cannot extend the interval just because you're using synthetics.
Until recently, most motor vehicles did not differentiate between conventional and synthetic oils for oil change intervals, and even now most don't. In the late 1970s, Mobil 1 originally claimed you could go 12,000 miles or 6 months between changes, and a number of idiots fell for this line even though no manufacturers then were saying this was okay. Back then, 3,000 miles was the absolute maximum change interval, with auto diesels often calling for 1,500-mile intervals.
What about more recently? My 1997 Escort called for 3,000-mile intervals for severe duty (the schedule I used for the first 100,000+ miles) and 5,000-mile intervals for "normal" duty (which few drivers really qualify for), with no difference for synthetics. Only when I switched to Red Line 10W30 synthetic after over 100K miles on dino oil did I extend the oil change intervals to a conservative 6,000 miles, but I still change the filter every 3,000 miles. After I first switched, I had to change the filter even more frequently as it clogged with gunk that the synthetic dislodged from the oil system, and I changed the oil at 3,000 miles for the first couple of changes until I felt confident that the engine was clean. The Amsoil user mentioned above whose engine failed from oil starvation probably didn't do this. Even Amsoil claims you should use its engine flush in a high-mileage engine before switching. Of course, using any engine flush has severe risks of its own, and if you were to use one, you should at least figure on dropping the oil pan to scrape the gunk out before you refill the engine with new oil.
So for you tractor owners who think you can triple the hours between oil changes by using synthetics, take the hint from these posts and forget it. Synthetics have advantages in extreme conditions and in lubricity, but don't count of being able to use them for far longer before changing them. Oil is cheaper than an engine rebuild or a replacement engine any day of the week.
