New "B" series catalog..

[bandit67]

I'd probably agree myself, while position control seems to have its advantages I've never found myself cursing at the quater inch control.

The quarter inch control doesn't seem to be negatively impacting sales. It'll be a long time before anyone else starts to give Kubota a run for their money in the small compact segment, so I don't think they'll have to start considering position control on more models until that time.

 

[art]

I agree with Neil on this! To know how to use it you can set a grade far easier with the quarter inching valve then the so called position control as those numbers are only a guide.

Only a guide? They are not dead on to anything set in stone as there are to many things that make a difference in the hitch adjustment itself. With the quarter inching valve you use the ground as your center point to focus and then you raise to skim or drop to dig! With 1/4" increments at the lever.

I have yet to see anyone that could raise or lower a position control lever that has tried to tell me they are better 1/4", 1/2" or 1" hitch adjustment at a time!!!!!!!!!!! Try it and you will see how hard it is to do! There are people that say they have to have it and that is fine, but for the people who look at it with an open mind and use it they have found it very easy to a gading job without experience that even many that call themselves experienced could not have done it as accurately.

It is just a matter of choice, after all we still have people that love the old farmall M, they may do a lot of work with it, but chances are a new M-series would get a lot more done in a day and the operator would be a lot less tired. That still not might be enough to overcome the pride of rebuilding an old tractor and using it for what you can.

 

[ChuckinNH]

Both Neil, and Bandit are completely correct, of course. Kubota is king of the hill, and will likely stay that way in the forseeable future. Lack of position control, or a standard quick change bucket system on the loader, and those kind of things will not impact Neil's sales at all probably, or certainly not to a large degree. I guess I was saying that adding those features might pay for itself in one way, or another. Kubota has such a wonderful reputation for reliability, and the implements they provide are so well designed, and implemented /intergrated that they don't need to do anything more. They didn't need to fix the poor seats on the B series either, but they sure made a lot of friends by doing it. Put another way, I probably wouldn't consider a 2000 series Deere if it didn't have those things, because Kubota is such a given....... but I am, though I do feel that the 2520 is completely outclassed by the B2630/B3030.

 

[bandit67]

I rented a B7800 with a box blade for a day last fall. I'd never used a box blade in my life, but have used rear blades, rock rakes, tillers, mowers on the 3 pt hitch. Of the 8 hours rental, I spent only 2-3 hours using the box blade to level a newly expanded portion of driveway. This was done after a significant amount of digging out of a hillside so that I could expand the drive. I also did some levelling of some fill I moved to the back yard.

I found the quarter inching to be very easy to use, and I did a darn good job of grading out the new drive area to prepare it for laying 3/4" crusher stone. I also used the box blade to spread the crusher stone. The whole job turned out great, and that's when I realized that the 1/4 inching setup wasn't as bad as it appeared in so many of the posts I'd read.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

wasn't as bad as it appeared in so many of the posts I'd read.

Thus the problem with internet forums. Everyone is an expert, even if they've got no pratical experience with what they are talking about. You gotta take things with a grain of salt and make your own opinions by getting in the seat yourself. (Thats not to say there is not a huge amount of value and information on these websites...)

 

[Volfandt]

When I was building and useing a boxblade to finish grade my property, I didn't even have the benefit of a qtr inching valve. My old TE-20's 3PH was either up, down or slowly creeping in either direction and I managed quite well with it. I also worked a pond scoop, disc, turning plow, boom pole and potatoe plow w/ it with no problems. I did have to use check chains when I used a bush hog and they were "true" set it and forget it adjustments

Position control probably won't be the main decider if I ever go larger, right now cab / no cab seems to be

I'm also going to peep out these new B's too, they have a few features that highly interest me.

 

[rickster]

When I was shopping for my tractor I looked at the kioti ck20 with position control. I wasn't impressed with the CRACKING LOADER PROBLEMS and the cheezy fix job kioti came up with! I decided on a B7800 with 1/4 inching and plenty of Kubota dealers in the area!!

 

[DmansPadge]

When I was shopping for my tractor I looked at the kioti ck20 with position control. I wasn't impressed with the CRACKING LOADER PROBLEMS and the cheezy fix job kioti came up with! I decided on a B7800 with 1/4 inching and plenty of Kubota dealers in the area!!

Hahaha! That is stirring the pot!!

 

[DmansPadge]

I did have to use check chains when I used a bush hog and they were "true" set it and forget it adjustments

I use check chains also when mowing. I have the 1/4 inching valve but even if I had position control I would still use them. It takes the weight off the hydraulics and you don't have to worry about the 3pt leaking down during long mowing sessions.

 

[Bota2620]

In my sitaution I have a quarter mile driveway of crushed shell, I'm sure it will take some practice with the box blade the first couple of times to get use to controlling it vertically, but from what I read I don't think I'll be disapointed with the 1/4 inching. I will also need to clear and grade about an acre of land and agian after getting use to the equipment I think I'll be able to complete the job with fairly good results with my new 2620.

Spoke with the dealer today-FEL two weeks from Georgia and MMM one week from Texas. Maybee by let Feb early March I'll be able to post with some experience. I'm expecting more than a fancy lawnmower, but 75% of this machines usefull life will be used for mowing.

AKKubota-I'm not sure about the chain situation, but Bandit posted on page 1, third post of this thread a link to a dealer site giving the new B series specs.

Roadkill95-I spoke with the dealer quiclky about BH costs and If I remeber correctly he said 8K. I'm in flat sandy Florida and dismissed the need for one very quickly after hearing the price. I would only need a BH for clearing some ditches along my driveway and removing stumps. I was told the 2620 with BH would not be large enough to move stumps bigger than 12" diam. I renting if I ever need one.

 

[TBDonnelly]

When I was shopping for my tractor I looked at the kioti ck20 with position control. I wasn't impressed with the CRACKING LOADER PROBLEMS and the cheezy fix job kioti came up with! I decided on a B7800 with 1/4 inching and plenty of Kubota dealers in the area!!

I have it from 'good authority' that you can grade better with a cracked Kioti front end loader than you can with a 'value added' Kubota 1/4 inching valve. Ha!

Don

 

[keerym]

All of the talk about 1/4 inching valves and position control is interesting. Position control is nice, don't get me wrong. However, here in the southwest, skip loaders or grading tractors are very common. They look like a fullsize backhoe loader, minus the backhoe, add a three point hitch, and attach a large HD boxblade. This is what they use to grade driveways, house pads, parking lots etc. They don't use position control. The Cat 414E has a joystick for up/down, tilt and pitch. Its pretty slick, and you can grade well enough to pour concrete over. I doubt many people would feel comfortable pouring concrete over their postion control graded subbase.

I'm really not here to stir the pot. I just thought some people might be interesting in knowing a little more about grading tractors.

 

[Northland]

Thus the problem with internet forums. Everyone is an expert, even if they've got no pratical experience with what they are talking about./quote]

Ain't that the truth

 

[Northland]

When I was shopping for my tractor I looked at the kioti ck20 with position control. I wasn't impressed with the CRACKING LOADER PROBLEMS and the cheezy fix job kioti came up with! I decided on a B7800 with 1/4 inching and plenty of Kubota dealers in the area!!

Yes, but the feature-to-feature comparison of a CK to the B7800 (no position control ) would suggest that you should still have bought the CK as it had a better value index. Having a cracked loader and the manufacturer ignore your pleadings shouldn't be a consideration.

 

[ChuckinNH]

A CEO once asked me which one of my Toolmakers was the best. I replied that it depended on what kind of problems he needed addressed on any given day. In my department were many highly skilled people, and hundreds of years of combined experience with that company. We functioned well as a team, the skills, and aptitudes of all contributing to a whole that was greater than the sum of the parts.
I think that Kubota tractors tend to be like that too. We can nit pick this feature or that, and find proponents for, and against almost any feature that we choose, but in the end it is the overall fuction of the total machine that matters. I think the new B's will function quite well for their intended tasks, and some that weren't intended. I think they will be well accepted, and if they continue to hold their price point (and it appears they will) Kubota's place in that market will remain secure for sure.
When I started this thread, I was hoping to have a discussion about the worth of the upgrade, what it meant to users of the current small B's, and if folks thought that the changes might take market share from JD, or other companies. The thread took a different turn, and I'm sorry if any comment I might have made about position control had anything to do with that.

 

[bandit67]

The thread took a different turn, and I'm sorry if any comment I might have made about position control had anything to do with that.

Darn troublemaker.

 

[Buster57]

Keerym-I love that Cat.

Some reason I think it may cost a little more then my B7800

Probably run 10,000 hours with no rebuild, or about 5 lifetimes for me!

BTW-my old boss lives in Gilbert. Very nice place!

 

[IslandTractor]

It's interesting to see the continued defensiveness about the lack of position control here, especially by the Kubota dealers. No one said you cannot do the work with quarter inching. Neil is correct that 95% of his customers don't care or even know what the difference is....that is because most people buying a standard B series are using them primarily to mow and don't even use the 3PT (again Neil's point). I'll believe Art's points when I see Kubota substitute quarter inching for position control on it's deluxe tractors.

If quarter inching was an advantage over position control then why in the world would Kubota only offer position control on their premium tractors? Kubota had a chance with this latest freshening of the excellent standard B series to improve the 3PT hydraulic control system. They did not do it and I can think of at least three reasons: 1) their entry level customers don't care or are oblivous to the difference (Neil's point), 2) it costs Kubota an extra $10 in parts which they can pocket or 3) (my choice of explanation), it serves as an excellent "upsell" point when trying to move a customer from a standard to a more profitable deluxe B series tractor.

 

[Volfandt]

Probably alittle bit of all 3 points.
Way back when (3 yrs ago to be exact) I was considering the CK20 vs the B7510 vs the GC2300 vs the BX2230 and I found things I liked with all of the above. ( I quickly ruled out the green due to many bad dealer experiences but thats a story I've covered many times in the past).
I could have went with either and I'm sure I would have been happy with the choice but I had established a criteria to whittle each down to an eventual single choice that fit my needs the best. My criteria, in no particular order was:
1) price, I wanted the most machine for the best bargain.
2) reputation, I wanted to go w/an established brand. I didn't want to get stuck w/ poor after sales support, i.e. service, parts, upgrades etc.
3) finish mowing quality, my primary purpose of the machine is to give me a high quality finish cut of alittle over 4 acres of lawn and former pasture. This was the 1st and formost purpose of the tractor. (at the time I was using a 23hp L&G tracor to finish mow and a 5' brush hog to maintain the pasture).
4) adaptability to do more than just mow, maintaining 4 acres entails more than just mowing so I wanted a machine that could dig, move material and provide a platform for other useful implements. I was also wanting to consolidate two machines into one.

I then built a spreadsheet listing each tractors ranking in the above categories and surprisingly the BX23 made an 11th hr run to make the grade. I decided a BH was the "unnecessary" premium feature I would spring for

I ruled out the CK20 for 3 reasons,
1) I didn't see any out in the fields around me,
2) the one and only dealer within 50 miles of me wouldn't budge on the price. He priced it nearly $1000 over the B7510 which was even higher than a B7610.
3) the fit and finish just didn't seem as well thought out as the Kubota's. I especially didn;t like the way the FEL's hoses interfered w/the pedals.
As I stated earlier, I have done "tons' of 3PH work with a tractor that only boasted that it had "draft control" and I had no problems grading w/a boxblade nor working any other 3ph implment so position control wasn't an important consideration. Sure it makes it easier but then again a cab w/heat & AC makes mowing alot easier too and to me neither are "necessary" for my tasks.......

I ruled out the GC 2300 primarily because the MMM was a ground contact type that I feel my former pasture would beat to death (as it did several L&G mower decks). And the one of the Kubota dealers also carried MF's so I got to compare teh GC2300 side x side w/a BX2230 and the BX just out shined the GC2300. The GC2300 had alot of surface rust od the flywheel and other surfaces.

I ruled out the B7510 also because of the MMM type and I thought the HST whined too much. The operators platform was also a tighter fit than the BX as I couldn;t mount/dismount without my arse hitting levers......

My BX23's 3PH doesn't have position control nor even 1/4 inching and somehow, someway the 3PH work I do with it seems to get done with little to no problems at all. I guess I must be talented

And to address the point about the economics of offering nicer but "unnecessary" refinements to a machine inorder to make it more profitable for the manufacturer, well, ain't that good business?