Need to dig a 5x5x6-foot hole - can I do it with the grapple bucket?

[MikeOConnor]

Ok, this is the nuttiest project I've taken on here at the farm -- putting up a 100' radio tower for ham-radio and microwave data antennas.

I've got me a bead on a nifty 100' self-supporting tower that needs a pretty darn substantial base -- and I'm thinking about using the PT to dig the hole.

I don't know beans about dirt work. I use the grapple bucket to move stuff around rather than dig holes. Hence my question to y'all. If you were digging a 5x5 foot hole that's six feet deep, how would you approach it? My thought is to dig it "from one side", basically making a ramp down that side and digging out the hole using the ramp to get the PT down there.

Am I on a fool's errand here? or is there a better approach? or should I just go rent a backhoe and use the proper tool for the job...

 

[Jimbrown]

Well you could do it that way they dig swiming pools around here with skid steers using that technique. The problem is you are going to have to shore up the ramp side before you can pout the concrete. If you used a back hoe you could probably get the hole square enough that you would not have to shore it up.

 

[Barryh]

Ok, this is the nuttiest project I've taken on here at the farm -- putting up a 100' radio tower for ham-radio and microwave data antennas.

I've got me a bead on a nifty 100' self-supporting tower that needs a pretty darn substantial base -- and I'm thinking about using the PT to dig the hole.

I don't know beans about dirt work. I use the grapple bucket to move stuff around rather than dig holes. Hence my question to y'all. If you were digging a 5x5 foot hole that's six feet deep, how would you approach it? My thought is to dig it "from one side", basically making a ramp down that side and digging out the hole using the ramp to get the PT down there.

Am I on a fool's errand here? or is there a better approach? or should I just go rent a backhoe and use the proper tool for the job...

I dug a tree stump out that way with my 180, but it was not 6 foot deep. The problem you will have is backing out of the hole once the tires load up, and start to spin. For a 6 ft deep hole you would need one very very long ramp to be able to back out. Especially with a load of dirt in the bucket. If it were me I would go with the back hoe, much quicker less mess. Just my thoughts.

 

[gotcha]

Am I on a fool's errand here? or is there a better approach? or should I just go rent a backhoe and use the proper tool for the job...

I kinda think you answered your own question in the above part of your qoute. Time wise and when doing this you have to go to undisturbed ground before pouring any type of a footing which makes me in favor of the BH. Another words one can't put fill back in without having the proper compacting done and around my area an engineer needs to put a stamp of approval on it before the building permit will be signed. If I'm correct, a tower of that high has to have many other permits regading lights etc.

 

[Phils]

Isn't this the time to apply the money you'd spend on renting a backhoe to help pay for the mini-hoe attachment for your PT?

In my "Rock-B-Gone" thread, my second set of photos show a hole I dug that's 5' deep, and I had to dig a little bit of ramp to get down that far. I could've gone 6' with a foot lower ramp and that'd only be 2' of support if I were to fill the hole with concrete. Your PT may be able to dig deeper than a 422 with the hoe?

Renting a backhoe will make the nicest hole and do it in the quickest time. Around here they are $200/day + transportation ($60) if you don't have a capable trailer and live too far to bobtail. That's about a quarter of the price of the 422 mini-hoe less shipping.

I tried digging with my grapple bucket, like your question. Did a horrible job even tho the ground was relatively soft and rockless. Ended up using the hoe to break up for the ramp, then scooped it all out with the LMB. Then dug and scooped the hole with the hoe.

This was the first time I'd tried digging with the grapple bucket. Maybe it was my technique, but I don't think I'll try it again. I expected it to work better than it did.

[on edit] THIS was ANOTHER time I wished I'd ordered the 12" bucket for the hoe along with the 9" that came with it. I didn't know it was available at the time I made my PT orders.

Phil

 

[woodlandfarms]

Ok, this is the nuttiest project I've taken on here at the farm -- putting up a 100' radio tower for ham-radio and microwave data antennas.
.

How does this blend in with your planned taking of the property back to nature?

 

[MikeOConnor]

How does this blend in with your planned taking of the property back to nature?

LOL...

it's not entirely consistent... but hey, we've planted 150 acres of prairie, cleared another 20 or so of existing prairie, fixed up about 30 acres of woods and another 15 of wetland.

So this is my spousal reward for helping Marcie with all those projects.

Plus, the radio/microwave gear is going to be solar powered. Here's a link to the project on my blog;

Mike O’Connor » Remote transceiver and antenna

Ok gang -- you've convinced me that this is NOT a good project for the grapple bucket. Yippee! I get to try running a back-hoe. I think I'm gonna rent one -- I don't think I'll get to dig too many more holes like this one.

Thanks!

 

[SpringHollow]

I bought Lackender's mini hoe because it can dig 6' instead of 4' which is real important here (20 degrees this morning). I have not been able to try it yet but it looks quite substantial. You might want to consider that as an option. More expensive than renting but you would hopefully have a useful piece of equipment. It would definitely take longer than with a real backhoe.

Ken

 

[MossRoad]

LOL...

it's not entirely consistent... but hey, we've planted 150 acres of prairie, cleared another 20 or so of existing prairie, fixed up about 30 acres of woods and another 15 of wetland.

So this is my spousal reward for helping Marcie with all those projects.

Plus, the radio/microwave gear is going to be solar powered. Here's a link to the project on my blog;

Mike O’Connor » Remote transceiver and antenna

Ok gang -- you've convinced me that this is NOT a good project for the grapple bucket. Yippee! I get to try running a back-hoe. I think I'm gonna rent one -- I don't think I'll get to dig too many more holes like this one.

Thanks!

Don't rent a backhoe. Rent a TRACK hoe, you know... a tracked excavator. I have rented a small bobcat tracked excavator and it did a very impressive job. You won't be sorry.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Mike, I am totally jealous of your life.

If I could afford to give up what I do and do what you are doing (with your property) I would do it in a hearbeat. Saddly I come from Schmuck Stock so there is little chance of an inheritance or other large windfall. And for what I do I feel most of the time it is one step below **** and half as interesting...

That all said, who in the heck uses a ham radio these days? I mean I would think more people use cans and strings that that technology ;-)

Also, in your blog do you guys have a sat photo of the whole property? Looks amazing...

Oh, I totally second kens suggestion on Lackenders. I have not seen my either, but renting when you could buy instead makes much more sense to me...

Carl

 

[MrJimi]

Mike, let me ask you this, how many of these holes do you have to dig? I read your post as it's only one hole. Is that right and how hard is your dirt up there? If it's not that bad I would suggest a round shovel and take your time and don't let the sides cave in on you.
I don't know how old you are or anything like that but sometimes a hand shovel rules, If it takes you 2 days you should still be fine.
How is a self supporting tower hold with such a small base without guy wires?
I put a 80 foot Rohn tower in a hole about 2 foot wide and 3 feet deep with guys at 20/40 and 60 feet and it did fine for over 12 years in Florida wind and I set anchors in the concrete and bolted the tower base to it.
Jim

 

[BobRip]

Could you make the hole only two feet deep and spread it out, keeping the same total concrete? Just a thought. The bucket might do OK with that. If you got the potato plow, you could break up the soil with that and then move the dirt with the bucket.

I once use the trencher to build a small pond about 20 X 20 X4 deep. It took about 2 days.

 

[MikeOConnor]

To WoodlandFarm's point -- if you have a choice in life between being really smart and being really lucky...

wait for it...

pick "lucky"

in my case, I'm just a regular geek who just happened to find this "Internet" thing REALLY interesting back in the early '90's. A buddy of mine and I built an ISP in my basement and started selling high-speed lines (ISDN back then) to our buddies. Who knew? We wound up selling in 1999, just before the crash. Who knew?

Back in the early '90's I was also entranced by domain names (thinking of them like the call letters I used to get for the community radio stations I built in the early '70's). So I got a gaggle of them (haven.com, bar.com, television.com, place.com, etc.) before the web was invented. Sold a few of them for a boatload of money in 1999. Who knew?

Anyway, the upshot of all that is that I'm trying to be retired out here, although my friends keep asking me to help out on projects as a freelance CxO, crisis-manager, project-manager type guy. I'm kinda like Meyer in the Travis McGee novels -- semi-retired.

To MrJimi and BobRip's questions -- I just threw those dimension numbers out there. I'm planning to follow the specs from the tower manufacturer, I just didn't have them at hand. I know there's gonna be around 6-8 yards of concrete in there at a minimum. You're right, a guyed mast would require a lot smaller pad at the base. I was lobbying Marcie for a guyed mast, but that pushed her too far (I am getting a little push back from the naturalist on the team) because of the possibility of bird kills. So self-supporting it is.

A hand shovel! What a concept! Not a bad idea. Certainly would be good exercise. And think of the bragging rights!

Regarding ham radio. It's true that Skype and the Internet have removed one reason to do that hobby (talking to people far away for "free"), but there are lots of other things going on in that community. I've always wanted to be a ham -- it fits my uber-geek mindset -- but I've never had time to learn Morse code. The FCC removed that requirement about a month ago and I joined right up -- passed all three exams in one go. The ham gang is my kinda gang, and I'm proud to be a newbie member.

 

[bbabineau]

Ok, this is the nuttiest project I've taken on here at the farm -- putting up a 100' radio tower for ham-radio and microwave data antennas.

I've got me a bead on a nifty 100' self-supporting tower that needs a pretty darn substantial base -- and I'm thinking about using the PT to dig the hole.

I don't know beans about dirt work. I use the grapple bucket to move stuff around rather than dig holes. Hence my question to y'all. If you were digging a 5x5 foot hole that's six feet deep, how would you approach it? My thought is to dig it "from one side", basically making a ramp down that side and digging out the hole using the ramp to get the PT down there.

Am I on a fool's errand here? or is there a better approach? or should I just go rent a backhoe and use the proper tool for the job...

To easily dig a hole like this the perfect solution is to rent a mini excavator. You can easily dig it in a half day and the rental should be no more than $150. I used one to dig bridge piers and it was so much easier than the mini hoe on my 1430.