need suggestions on HP and tractors...

hbarski · Apr 3, 2005

I recently bought an 80 acre farm. The land is rolling hill ground, about 45 acres are in pasture. It has a 12 acre lake, and the rest is timber. I have no working knowledge of tractors other than casual observations. I do know that I have a need for one, along with attachments.

I know that I will need to work and clean up 3 levees.

Clear brushpiles and new growth in the timber.

Keep the grass cut on 45 acres of pasture.

Maintain chat driveway and work building sites for new barns, garage, and home.

Now what complicates this a little more is that the farm, is 2 hours away from my home, and it is THE retirement place for the wife and myself in 7-10 years. We will have weekends to go up and enjoy the place and to get things in shape.

I want to get enough tractor to do the things that need to be done without over or under buying. I have a good understanding of the immediate needs like FEL, bushhog, and box blade, but other than that, I wouldn't begin to know where to start.

I would really like to hear your input on recommendations for the different makes of tractors along with the pros and cons. I am fairly well mechanically minded and have a tendency to prefer to do my own wrenching.

Any help and ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Gatorboy · Apr 3, 2005

I'm sure you don't want to spend the whole weekend cutting 45 acres, so I would suggest something like a Kubota M8200/M9000 w/FEL and a Rhino 15' flexwing mower.

You didn't mention what your budget was -- so I'm spending your money as if it was water. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

LarryD · Apr 3, 2005

I would look for a local farmer who wants that 45 acres of pasture for hay. That can quickly turn into a lot of work without attention. It can also offer tax advantages if it stays in ag status. Around here you only have to make a couple hundred dollars a year to stay in ag status.

That doesn't diminish your tractor needs but it will reduce your workload and let you focus on other projects.

As for size, I would think you're looking at 40+ hp to operate any implements that would significantly reduce your workload (10' brushhog?). I'll let others chime in on that since I have 6 acres that the 5 horses (no disrespect to the mule /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) substitute for a brushhog...now if I could just get them to eat thistle. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

thcri · Apr 3, 2005

( I would look for a local farmer who wants that 45 acres of pasture for hay. )

I think I would go along with that or even find a farmer who is willing to put up a fence around the 45 acres and put his cattle in it. You could get some good money for pasture rent.

I would spend my week-ends there getting the area around where your house is going to be all set up.

murph

LarryD · Apr 3, 2005

find a farmer who is willing to put up a fence... and put his cattle in it. You could get some good money for pasture rent. 

Maybe even a couple of steaks. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif ...lets see, I'll have mine rare please. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

KiotiJohn · Apr 3, 2005

Are you planning to do anything with the pastures, or just keep them cut? I favor the renting some of it out unless you're going to try to make some money with it. If so, you're going to need a lot of tractor, or spend ALL your time working it.
I would say not less than 40, but probably at least 55HP or more to be able to pull implements large enough to work fast.
Since I favor Kioti products, when they're priced to compete, I would recommend not less than a DK45 with a good lean toward the DK55 ROPS version (no cab) or Cab model. The DK65 is also available in both those models, and both have a rear 3pt hitch lever so you don't have to climb into the tractor to adjust the hitch while hooking up implements.
I would sure think you'd need at least a 10' brush mower, but I'd want up to 15'. That takes a TRACTOR to haul.
Not that I'm really familiar with them, but I've read quite a few posts about the Zetors. They're big, heavy, strong, and cheaper than many others. If you have to go really large, you may check into these.
In many cases, the large Utility Tractors (>60HP) can be cheaper than Compact Utility Tractors. John

hbarski · Apr 3, 2005

Well, you see, money around here now is like water in the desert. There is some, but not as much as I would like. The old coot that sold the farm took just about all of my beer money. I have a farm paid for, but little left over to get moving on the equipment.

I had an offer from a guy to run cattle on it, but I hesitate because I like to hunt, and I am afraid the cattle would tend to muddy up the area around the lake. Now the idea of pulling hay off may work, but the fields haven't been fertilized in a while, and I wouldn't know where to start trying to price what would be a fair offer for someone.

The property is fenced but is in need of minor repair in a few areas. I just hope I haven't bit off more than I can chew.

Soundguy · Apr 4, 2005

Here's my take... Don't buy too 'little' .. too little will be more hamper than too much.

Like another person said.. Cutting grass will be a big issue. At a minimum a 10' mower and that will make a full ( 14 hrs ) day of cutting. More preferable would be a 15' mower. Still a 'day' job... but not all day.

That is going to kick you up into the 80+ hp range for tractors.

This will also make for a tractor that will be usefull for logging, or other tasks that large acerage turn up from time to time.. like perhaps a small hay operation..e tc. A ag tractor makes that so much more feasable. While there are those that do hobby hay with 40-50 hp machines.. it is alot of work. ( its a lot of work anyway /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif ).

The complications of a large tractor are; size.. you are going to be looking at around 7' wide or so. That limits maneuverability.. but then 80 ac.. you've got room /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Also.. this makes for the need of a big trailer and hauling vehicle.. *IF* you plan on hauling it. You may just leave the thing out there.

I have a car hauler and full size truck. I can haul my 7 'small' tractors.. but not my big NH. So far that's hasn't been an issue.. i don't do any for hire work.. just use it to mow my pasture.

Next is money. Like all things.. big tractors cost more.. and their implements cost even more!

For a mower you might look at Howse. They are coming out with a 15' batwing. if it is as price competitive as their 10' mower is.. it should be a steal. My howse HD 10' mower was about half the price of most competitors 10' mowers. I've used it since mid last year and love it.. it's a big solid brute.. no complaints.

Your options are new or used. New breakes down into new name brand.. or new 2nd/3rd brand.

Examples would be a 'big 3' ( generally NH, Kubota, JD and massey F ).

Next would be a new 2nd brand.. like mahindra, kioti, etc...

Then their are the 3rd brands.. like chineese.. foton etc. Some 80hp tractors for pretty low money.

Next.. used. At least here in the south, you can pick up 80-150 hp ag tractors for under 10k. the older.. the cheaper. For instance a late 60's ford 8000 ( 10 hp ) you can get them in the 4000-5000 range. Same with case 1xxx series.. 4000$.. ford tw 25 and 30 , and some of the big allis/fiat machines up to the 130 hp range in the 6500$ area.

That's cheap hp.. course.. it a tad older.. not antique.. but then some parts may be hard to find. So if you go this route.. investigate the tractor and chek parts availability.

At this 'cheap' price.. you could even get a regular 'new' utility tractor for generic duties. Say a 33-45 hp tractor for 'small work' and the old big brute just for mowing. Price it right and get say.. kioti mid size tractor.. and an old ag tractor and inexpensive mower.. and your way down on price.. and have alot of versatility.

If old/private owners/used scares you.. look for new-ish, or well maintained fleet sales. For instance lease returns to a deal.. or trade-ins at a dealer. Both good options.. may have some warranty.. or record of maintenance, and possibly some dealer support. state and local government might be an option. Around here, the state turns over it's mowing tractors at a few thousand hours.. cheap. The let go of a few NH 7610s 4wd units with ranges of 2000-4000 hours for 8-11k$ ( I bought a 2wd Nh 7610s as a trade in from a NH dealer.. had 7xx hours.. and paid alot more than that..shoulda helt out longer and save a few grand.. )

Thats a realitively new(age) tractor.. and still has hours of life left.. even at the 4k mark. county does good service.

They had cosmetic defects.. usually tree limb damage.. not much rust.

The plus side to a used or old machine.. is that you won't worry about it as much leaving it unatended.. the downside is the age/repair costs .. if any ).

You'll get literaly hundreds of opinions and ideas on these.. weigh each of them.

Soundguy

hbarski · Apr 4, 2005

Thanks for the advice. The more I ponder my new situation, the more I believe that I will start adding some trees toward the back of the property. I love to hunt and I would think I could add some saw tooth oaks on the back of the property and plant food plots. I would like to get the land to mow down to the 25-30 acre range. I would prefer to try and limit the hard work and enjoy retirement. If I can post a picture, I will try and show my thoughts.

If you look at the picture, I want to be able to manuver the equipment in some areas that may not handle equipment that is too big. I would likely try to keep the pasture from just to the left of the lakes back towards the road open, and just worry about that for mowing and keeping cleared.

With that in mind, would you think a 40-45 HP tractor would be doable?

LarryD · Apr 4, 2005

I love to hunt ...I would prefer to try and limit the hard work and enjoy retirement. 

Around here, a ton of alfalfa from the east side of the state runs about $165. Average is 3-4 ton per acre per season.
I'd be willing to bet you could find someone in your area willing to plant that acreage for you, tend it, cut it, and give you a few dollars for the privilage.

Now I've watched alfalfa fields at dusk and it's pretty much "ducks on a pond" for deer and turkey. With those ponds and fields of alfalfa...what was that location again... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Darren · Apr 4, 2005

My suggestion is to read this board and put together your own list of work operations that require a tractor. Then add the attachments needed to accomplish the work. After you have all that, investigate the hp requirements of each attachment and the weight of the tractor to effectively handle them. Then and only then start considering the tractor hp AND weight. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

FWIW, I started with a used 60 hp MWFD for 30 acres which grew to about 170 with additions within a few years. Because of the terrain, I found I was better off with a more maneuverable and lower profile tractor which ended up being a 30 hp Kubota. I use the small tractor for virtually everything including haying, discing, loader work, ditching, mowing, logging, chipping, etc. The 60 hp Ford is mostly used to tow stuff when I need the extra grunt and weight to pull stuff (truck, trailler, etc.) out of the creek. The Kubota doesn't have the weight to do that kind of stuff.

The Ford will also handle the large heavy back blade that I use to bulldoze fill. That's another example of when you need weight to get a job done. Looking back, I should have passed on the Ford. That's why suggest you start with the jobs to be accomplished and match them with attachments before thinking about tractors. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I think others on this board have also ended up with the wrong tractor /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif initially because they started out looking for a tractor without doing the preliminary work evaluation. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

MtnViewRanch · Apr 5, 2005

hbarski, your situation is very similar to mine. I highly recommend Mohammed's book to help you with your decision. As far as my input, buy as big as you can afford. Working weekends out on your 80 acres it takes forever to get anything done.

Egon · Apr 5, 2005

Forget about weekend farming such as making hay unless it is done by someone else.

Think about tractor storage and/or transportation.

You say finances are limited at the moment. Why not wait a few years. The " Farm will not go away"

If there are critical jobs perhaps a local farmer could be hired?

Egon

Soundguy · Apr 5, 2005

A 4X ish hp tractor will do alot of work.. and is still fairly maneuverable. The one issue is mowing. Big mowers need big tractors.. for instance.. I'd guess you would be limited to the 7/8 foot range on a rotary mower.. 7' if you let it grow tall and mow a couple times a year.. 8' if you keep it a foot or less. Small er mowers means it takes you longer to mow. 35 ac on a 7' mower could be a sunrise to sunset to sunset 'forced march' job, or a good brisk 2 days work. How often are you going to mow? If only 2-3 times a year.. that's fine.. even if it takes a couple days.. no biggie. if this is something you want to mow once a month though.. a bigger mower would be nice!

Alternately.. you could buy a big old brute for cheap money and let it tote a big mower, and keep the 40ish hp tractor for all the other work.

your money, your choice.

Soundguy

hbarski · Apr 5, 2005

I am going to have to do a lot of reading I guess. I know that eventually, I want the cleared size to shrink from what it is now. My gut is in the 45 hp range. I don't mind hitting the fields some during the summer. I could keep the area around the lake cut more frequent than the rest of the pasture. I would prefer to rent out the fields but the boss is telling me otherwise. She has a wakeup call coming I think.

I think that a narrower bushhog that is 4-5 ft would work for the heavy duty cutting in the timber. I think a 7-8 ft light bushhog would work well in the pasture. At present, I am not planning on pulling hay off, but that may change in the years to come.

Right now manueverability(sp), is something that I have to contend with. Deciding between a utility or a CUT tractor seems to be a real decision. I think I will go look at the Kubota m4900 and M5700 this afternoon. I have heard some good things on them here.

Storage should not be a problem as long as the tractor has foldable ROPS. 30x40 polebarn is already there.

RedDog · Apr 5, 2005

I think I will go look at the Kubota m4900 and M5700 this afternoon. 

I'm curious as to what price quotes you will be given.

RedDog

hbarski · Apr 5, 2005

Just a quick shot from him was 19,500 on the M4900 and 23,000 on the M5700. He may deal because the local JD dealer wants his business and so they are competing.

schole · Apr 6, 2005

Just a thought: growing up on an 80 acre hobby farm in the 70's, my parents had 3 old wrecks in the 30-40 hp range. Eventually, Dad got a shiny new 48hp machine (1988?) and still uses it daily. We put up only 5-7000 square bales for mixed livestock. It was not the fastest operation, but it sure was cost efficient. The fields were of a size and shape that an larger machines wouldn't have sped production a great deal. (NB: he does still have a JD 450 crawler an ancient Ford TLB).

Perhaps, as a weekend warrior, you would get most fun out of a well outfitted, though slightly smaller, tractor with a whole bunch of implements? ie. maybe mid-30-45 hp, 4x4, and attachments?

shawn

Soundguy · Apr 6, 2005

( I am going to have to do a lot of reading I guess. I know that eventually, I want the cleared size to shrink from what it is now. My gut is in the 45 hp range. I don't mind hitting the fields some during the summer. I could keep the area around the lake cut more frequent than the rest of the pasture. I think that a narrower bushhog that is 4-5 ft would work for the heavy duty cutting in the timber. I think a 7-8 ft light bushhog would work well in the pasture. )

At least sounds like you have your wants planne dout. That's a great start. I'd like to amke one more sugestion. For your mower int he timber.. don't get one smaller than your tire tracks. In other words.. if your tractor is 6' wide.. don't get a 4' mower.. get a 6' one. 5' etc.. try to match the tracks. Length behind the tractor for a 5 or 6' mower will be almost the same. a 4' mower will be short. only go 4' if you have turning clearance problems that a 5' or 6' wouldn't allow.. and in the end we are only talking about a foot longer.

Soundguy