Backhoe Need opinions on adding 3-point hitch backhoe

[jhous]

I know this subject has been kicked around until the horse is dead.......and I have read all I can find. I would very much like the opinions of the 'wiser heads' on this forum. I've got the J2020H and I want a backhoe on it. Factory LS hoe was quoted as $6900. There are several aftermarket brands that come in at around $4000. The backhoe will not get heavy use..... a little ditch work, stump removal, and what ever my wife dreams up. Will my tractor stand up to a 3-point hitch mount backhoe? I like the looks of the WoodMax 6'. It weighs 995 lbs.
All opinions will be appreciated. I would love to hear from anyone with experience on the subject.

Thanks.
J.

 

[TomSeller]

If you take it easy on the bacihoe you may very well be fine. If you are are aggressive with the backhoe you could have have troubles and crack your tractor. So it depends.

 

[jhous]

If you take it easy on the bacihoe you may very well be fine. If you are are aggressive with the backhoe you could have have troubles and crack your tractor. So it depends.

thanks for the reply tom. That actually brings up a good question (for me at least). To me, with a piece of equipment like this, "...take it easy..." means backing off if something bogs down and try a slightly different approach. Am I wrong in that? Having worked quiet a bit with my brothers very large New Holland, I know anything can be bogged down. So I figure the only way to know if you are biting off more than you can deal with is to try it and be ready to 'back off'. Am I wrong in assuming that this type equipment has a large enough safety margin to accept "bogging down" as a fairly normal occurrence without breaking (again, assuming you don't just keep repeatedly doing it over and over again.).

 

[Ed of all trades]

I have no experience with 3 ph backhoes but i have run mini excavators a lot and I think that it has to do more with the operator and how smooth he is. Some people who dig a lot are still jerky and the machine is always jumping around more than is needed. I believe that if a person is smooth and not jerky he can work the hoe to its limit, (dig a stump and have the relief valves kick in as you try to find where you can dig,) and do no damage to the machine. On the other hand the jerking that is often done when the bucket is in the air can over time cause cracks and failure to the equipment. I believe this applies to any equipment, from trucks and cars to shop equipment. Ed

 

[BoneheadNW]

I have a 3pt BH on my Kubota B7610 (a 4672A to be specific) and have never had a problem. I recently removed the BH and re-installed it and I hope my luck continues. As for "taking it easy" on the BH, I don't really know what that means. Since this has been my only tractor for the last 8 or 9 years, I don't abuse it, but I certainly don't treat it with kid gloves either. I would be happy to answer any specific questions that you have.
Bonehead

 

[Mad Mac]

We just bought a new Mahindra 5555 and the dealer sells Ansung backhoes. It has to be 3-point hitch mounted and they have three models. My goal would be to claw out Yaupon and other undesirable brush and trees in the woods, then grapple them to a burn pile. Any suggestions?

 

[jhous]

I have a 3pt BH on my Kubota B7610 (a 4672A to be specific) and have never had a problem. I recently removed the BH and re-installed it and I hope my luck continues. As for "taking it easy" on the BH, I don't really know what that means. Since this has been my only tractor for the last 8 or 9 years, I don't abuse it, but I certainly don't treat it with kid gloves either. I would be happy to answer any specific questions that you have.
Bonehead

Thanks, man.
This is exactly what I was looking for......someone with actual experience with a compact tractor and a 3-point backhoe. Do you have any idea what your backhoe weighs?

 

[brown40]

A good 3pt or subframe mounted BH will be able to lever up the front of your tractor, shift it to either side, and push and pull your machine towards and away from your work.
Digging rocks and stumps you'll be into relief settings all the time--taking the BH to its maximum exerted force repeatedly, in a variety of vectors.
I worry about the subframe mount causing damage when I'm locked into a root, because before the relief is met, the tractors moving. They are great tools for digging.
If you break off one piece of your swiss army knife, you still have the other bits useable--not so with a tractor. If you break the 3pt off the cast frame, you lose the whole shebang. The 3pt is what makes a tractor what it is.
I was in the same position and wanted to go cheaper, but didn't want to risk losing the whole thing to dig holes. The subframe is a better way to go, takes the 3pt right out of the equation in most cases, and spreads the forces across the machine frame, in a variety of directions.
Scan through the history here and you'll see casting after casting sheared off by a BH on the 3pt--some scary and interesting pics to help decide which is preferential. Most recent was a Kioti post that thankfully didn't get into the reservoir, but has certainly weakened the whole back of the machine.
Don't mean to discourage your 3pt interest--best thing about TBN is being able to learn from others experience, mistakes and troubles before getting into your own. Good luck with the purchase.

 

[DaveNJ]

I recently purchased an LS XJ2025 (the successor to your model) with loader and backhoe. I've also often rented, for both personal and business use, small backhoes- BX or B Kubotas. The best use for a hoe with a small tractor like this is low impact trenching and ditch digging as well as loosening up materials prior to scooping them up with the loader. They are fantastic at doing these jobs without tearing up the rest of the landscape. You can dig up a stump or two if you have a lot of patience (a WHOLE lot of patience).
The stress of backhoe work bounces, jerks and moves small machines constantly. All of them I've used were frame mounted. The LS is a 4 point frame mount and has worked really good for me so far. If you intend heavy use, like stumping, I would avoid 3pt mounts.
BTW, after removing a few stumps in the past, I've found that cutting them flush with the ground and ignoring them is the best policy.

 

[jhous]

A good 3pt or subframe mounted BH will be able to lever up the front of your tractor, shift it to either side, and push and pull your machine towards and away from your work.
Digging rocks and stumps you'll be into relief settings all the time--taking the BH to its maximum exerted force repeatedly, in a variety of vectors.
I worry about the subframe mount causing damage when I'm locked into a root, because before the relief is met, the tractors moving. They are great tools for digging.
If you break off one piece of your swiss army knife, you still have the other bits useable--not so with a tractor. If you break the 3pt off the cast frame, you lose the whole shebang. The 3pt is what makes a tractor what it is.
I was in the same position and wanted to go cheaper, but didn't want to risk losing the whole thing to dig holes. The subframe is a better way to go, takes the 3pt right out of the equation in most cases, and spreads the forces across the machine frame, in a variety of directions.
Scan through the history here and you'll see casting after casting sheared off by a BH on the 3pt--some scary and interesting pics to help decide which is preferential. Most recent was a Kioti post that thankfully didn't get into the reservoir, but has certainly weakened the whole back of the machine.
Don't mean to discourage your 3pt interest--best thing about TBN is being able to learn from others experience, mistakes and troubles before getting into your own. Good luck with the purchase.

..............................................................
Thank you very much. Very good detailed information. Love your point about the Swiss Army knife; really brings home the point.
I am definitely leaning towards the dealer solution (theirs will be a subframe). Of course I am assuming they can get me one. My tractor is a 2011.

I also completely agree about the forum. I rode motorcycles for 25 years and the biker forum I was a member of was worth it's weight in gold ........not to mention a bunch of crazy guys that were absolutely hilarious at times.

 

[tman1020]

Three point mounts and or subframe mounted backhoes can damage your tractor. There was just a post on here last week of a subframe mount that snapped off the back of a tractor. Bottom line is backhoes are hard on a tractor whether you're taking it easy on them or not. The forces a backhoe can exert on your tractor are pretty heavy duty. You may think you're taking it easy because you're not pulling very hard on the lever at the same time you could be putting between 3 or 4 thousand pounds of pressure on it. One problem I've seen is guys will reach out and hook something with one of the teeth on the bucket and raise the front of the tractor unknowingly and then have the bucket slip loose and the front of the tractor slam down. That is a recipe for a cracked transmission housing with or without a subframe. Also if your stabilizer pads sink into soft soil all that weight is now being placed on your mount whatever it may be three point or subframe. Don't get me wrong I have a Backhoe with the subframe mounted on my tractor and I do use it but what I'm just saying is the risk potential is there either way you go. I think your tractor would probably handle a backhoe as long as you remember it is not a dedicated construction equipment Backhoe but I would try to get every advantage in your favor and go with the factory recommended one in the mount they recommend. And as far as taking it easy well really truly we all know how that's going to turn out. Good luck.

 

[BoneheadNW]

Thanks, man.
This is exactly what I was looking for......someone with actual experience with a compact tractor and a 3-point backhoe. Do you have any idea what your backhoe weighs?

According to the manual, shipping weight is 851 lbs, including the crate.
Bonehead

 

[Supraman0614]

I have an XR4145 with the LS hoe (subframe mounted). There is a provision under the BH seat to install the top link. I put it on to see if it would fit and it looks like it is supposed to be there. There is nothing mentioned in the manual(s) about using the top link with the BH mounted but why would they put it there? My dad's old Kubota has a subframe mount BH and he has used to top link on that for years with no issues. I'm not sure you could use that hoe without it. What is the consensus on using the top link as well? It seems to me that the more attachment you can get to the tractor, the stiffer the entire assembly becomes.

 

[tman1020]

I have an XR4145 with the LS hoe (subframe mounted). There is a provision under the BH seat to install the top link. I put it on to see if it would fit and it looks like it is supposed to be there. There is nothing mentioned in the manual(s) about using the top link with the BH mounted but why would they put it there? My dad's old Kubota has a subframe mount BH and he has used to top link on that for years with no issues. I'm not sure you could use that hoe without it. What is the consensus on using the top link as well? It seems to me that the more attachment you can get to the tractor, the stiffer the entire assembly becomes.

It probably has the connection there because it could also be used as a three point mount if you take off the subframe. I have often thought of adding the top link as well I was just afraid of the amount of stress that it puts on that location of the tractor. During operation of my backhoe even with the subframe out that backhoe flexes quite a bit through the subframe. I would much rather break at the subframe than my top link mount.

 

[Mad Mac]

Well, rats. Sounds like I shouldn't try to clear yaupon with a backhoe. On the other hand, thank you. This may have saved me the cost of a backhoe and a broken tractor.

 

[jhous]

I recently purchased an LS XJ2025 (the successor to your model) with loader and backhoe. I've also often rented, for both personal and business use, small backhoes- BX or B Kubotas. The best use for a hoe with a small tractor like this is low impact trenching and ditch digging as well as loosening up materials prior to scooping them up with the loader. They are fantastic at doing these jobs without tearing up the rest of the landscape. You can dig up a stump or two if you have a lot of patience (a WHOLE lot of patience).
The stress of backhoe work bounces, jerks and moves small machines constantly. All of them I've used were frame mounted. The LS is a 4 point frame mount and has worked really good for me so far. If you intend heavy use, like stumping, I would avoid 3pt mounts.
BTW, after removing a few stumps in the past, I've found that cutting them flush with the ground and ignoring them is the best policy.

I was about two days away from pulling the trigger on a new J2025H and then this J2020 popped up with only 139 hours on it at a really good price .....so I went with it.

"...I've found that cutting them flush with the ground and ignoring them is the best policy...." Ha, Ha...That's what I've been doing for the last 20 years and it's worked well. I've just wanted one of these little tractors ever since I saw the first one years ago. I can in no way justify this purchase in any rational way .....So, I so I make all these noises about all the things that "need" to be done. The wife doesn't help.......she came up with her own list of "needs to be done" ......she a good wife.

"...You can dig up a stump or two if you have a lot of patience (a WHOLE lot of patience)..." Do you know how much patience you have to have to do it with an axe and a shovel; in my case it's measured in years. I'm old..... it takes me all night to do what I used to do all night.


Good point about the backhoe bouncing the tractor around. Makes sense. I hadn't thought about it that way. A subframe definitely sounds like the better approach.

Thanks for taking the time.
J.

 

[jhous]

Well, rats. Sounds like I shouldn't try to clear yaupon with a backhoe. On the other hand, thank you. This may have saved me the cost of a backhoe and a broken tractor.

I don't think anyone has said not to. The consensus of opinion seems to be that 'stumping' is one of the most stressful things you can do with a backhoe as many of the great guys here have told why. So if you go that route, you probably should have a subframe mount backhoe and proceed with caution and patience. It also sort of depends on how large your trees are and your tractor and how much risk you are comfortable with.

One piece of advice I got was to cut them level with the ground and forget about them. I really consider that excellent advice since it would save serious money and possible damage to your tractor. As for me, I'm going to get one (a frame mount, I believe, right now) as I don't see doing very much 'stumping' and I just want one to play with......I mean work with.

 

[newbury]

I have a 3pt BH on my Kubota B7610 (a 4672A to be specific) and have never had a problem. I recently removed the BH and re-installed it and I hope my luck continues. As for "taking it easy" on the BH, I don't really know what that means. Since this has been my only tractor for the last 8 or 9 years, I don't abuse it, but I certainly don't treat it with kid gloves either. I would be happy to answer any specific questions that you have.
Bonehead

The "3pt" on the Kubota SHOULD have an extra heavy duty top link. I looked into it when I opted for my BH70-X for more depth.

A good 3pt or subframe mounted BH will be able to lever up the front of your tractor, shift it to either side, and push and pull your machine towards and away from your work.

I think I could reach up and grab a tree limb and lift my B7610 up.

<snip>Scan through the history here and you'll see casting after casting sheared off by a BH on the 3pt--some scary and interesting pics to help decide which is preferential. Most recent was a Kioti post that thankfully didn't get into the reservoir, but has certainly weakened the whole back of the machine.<snip>

I've been here since 2009 and only have seen about three postings that attributed broken casings to 3 pt backhoes. Could you provide links to "casting after casting"?

I don't think anyone has said not to. The consensus of opinion seems to be that 'stumping' is one of the most stressful things you can do with a backhoe as many of the great guys here have told why. So if you go that route, you probably should have a subframe mount backhoe and proceed with caution and patience. It also sort of depends on how large your trees are and your tractor and how much risk you are comfortable with.

One piece of advice I got was to cut them level with the ground and forget about them. I really consider that excellent advice since it would save serious money and possible damage to your tractor. As for me, I'm going to get one (a frame mount, I believe, right now) as I don't see doing very much 'stumping' and I just want one to play with......I mean work with.

I had one large maple tree stump that I couldn't get out. Piled dirt around it, waited 3 years, it turned to mulch.

I've recently been "stumping" bamboo in dried soil. I'm trying to be careful to not lift the front and drop it, but it happens. And I feel like a kid in a sandbox to reach out, scoop up a 12" bucket of dirt and move it. Especially compared to the round point shovel alternative.

 

[IslandTractor]

If you take it easy on the bacihoe you may very well be fine. If you are are aggressive with the backhoe you could have have troubles and crack your tractor. So it depends.

What he said.

 

[tman1020]

The "3pt" on the Kubota SHOULD have an extra heavy duty top link. I looked into it when I opted for my BH70-X for more depth. I think I could reach up and grab a tree limb and lift my B7610 up. I've been here since 2009 and only have seen about three postings that attributed broken casings to 3 pt backhoes. Could you provide links to "casting after casting"? I had one large maple tree stump that I couldn't get out. Piled dirt around it, waited 3 years, it turned to mulch. I've recently been "stumping" bamboo in dried soil. I'm trying to be careful to not lift the front and drop it, but it happens. And I feel like a kid in a sandbox to reach out, scoop up a 12" bucket of dirt and move it. Especially compared to the round point shovel alternative.

ForumGeneral ForumsParts/RepairsBroken Backhoe Subframe Repair
This is the most current one I have seen.