need info on welder

gray · Nov 9, 2004

I have been looking at buying a MIG welder. I hope to retire in a short time and will do many of the welding and fab things I long have not had time to do.

I have no experience with MIG welders. I have a stick welder and like it but it will not do aluminum and is messy. I plan to weld, steel, stainless steel, aluminum. I also will be doing some autobody welding.

I have been looking at Lincoln MIG 255, Miller 250X and Miller 210. I may even consider Hobart 251. Also, is a spool gun worth it or should I just get the much less exspensive aluminum feed rolls and liner?

Experienced input would be much appreciated.

boustany · Nov 10, 2004

I'd ask on http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/
great group, know a lot about amateur and professional welding.

Me I started with a 135AMP lincoln I bought at Home Depot. I'd buy a bigger/better one today, though. Last year I bought a TIG, which can be lots of fun for Aluminum, but mui $$$

Still I can do a lot of things with it.

MadReferee · Nov 10, 2004

I agree, you should go to the Hobart/Miller discussion boards and pose your question. The same comparisons come up there at least once a week. Plenty of info there on all brands.

gray · Nov 10, 2004

Thank you,

I did not know where to look and thought many on this board would have some knowlege of this issue.

I will look there and hope to get the info for a good decission.

Thanks.

B2400 · Nov 10, 2004

A friend I work with builds aluminum jon/plate boats on the side. He opted for a 250A Miller MIG with the spool gun. He claims the spool gun works better for the aluminum due to a more consistant feed.

wroughtn_harv · Nov 10, 2004

I've had the Hobart 251, great machine. I've also had Miller migs and they were great too. I now have a Panasonic 260 Gunslinger and love it to pieces.

For the aluminum go with the spoolgun. Aluminum wire is soft. And the only way to really get good consistant feed is with a push pull set up or a real short whip. The spoolgun isn't hard to get used to and you don't have near the problems with wire feed you do with conventional migs.

You might also consider a tig. They're the most fun for aluminum and stainless.

SPIKER · Nov 10, 2004

the millers are good units but if you get one the 250's are ok, and the 251s too. I like the older 200s better though as we have 5 I think in the shop 200 oldest works the best and is most consistant. the newest 251 is all digital and been back to the shop several times with one thing or other wrong... several boards and such gone wrong in the past with the 250/1s. just our experaince, spool guns are great for alum wire like said above and the TIG is way to go for high end use or when you plan on doing much alum or SS welding...

MarkM

Soundguy · Nov 11, 2004

I was under the impression that you could do some aluminum welding with a stick.. I think I've seen the electrodes at TSC? or am I mistaken?

Soundguy

mark777 · Nov 11, 2004

You can get E4043-190 electrodes but they run around $20. a pound. It takes a very skilled welder (better than me) a long time to master stick welding aluminum.

I have the Miller 215 with the optional spooler gas/feeder port, but I did not buy the spooler gun, as it was another $600. I am considering it if I have more aluminum projects in the near future.

hazmat · Nov 11, 2004

It takes a very skilled welder (better than me) a long time to master stick welding aluminum.



As my welding instructor put it "In theory you can stick weld aluminun, but God bless you if you can actually do it". /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

rswyan · Nov 11, 2004

( I have been looking at Lincoln MIG 255, Miller 250X and Miller 210. I may even consider Hobart 251. Also, is a spool gun worth it or should I just get the much less exspensive aluminum feed rolls and liner? )

I have a Lincoln PowerMIG 215 that I picked up a couple of months ago. I would have like to have gotten the PowerMIG 255 but finances wouldn't permit. So far the 215 has worked great but time will tell I guess. If you get a chance scope out this thread on the Hobart Welders Forum where a guy named TRG-42 does a comparsion between the PowerMIG 215 and the Miller 210 - very informative:

PowerMIG 215 thread

A couple of things in that review - the PowerMIG 215 uses a tachometer driven wirefeed, something that measures wire feed speed in actual inches per minute and gives a more consistant wire feed speed - it is typically only found on larger, more expensive units.

Another comment he made was the aluminum wire feed kit for the Lincoln's works so well that people often don't bother getting a spoolgun once they have tried it.

It's a good comparision that points out the pro's and con's of both units.

Being an Ohio boy I had to go RED

gray · Nov 14, 2004

rswyan.

Great site you put me onto. Thanks.

I have been digging around for weeks now and am leaning toward the Miller 210 with the 3035 spool gun unless I can find out how easy the aluinum feed kit is to use on the Lincoln255. Lots of good things said about it by lots of users.
I will not do a deal till I am more sure of the funtions and costs to do each type of welding. I am going to get a chance to run a Lincoln 255 at school this week. It is just the cost of the spool gun that is hard to go for. I really looked at the ESAB multi function 260. That machines has MIG< STICK< TIG all on board. It is pricey but nice. Never need any other machine for other functions? I have held back to be sure of the needs being right and not just going for more than I ever will need.

Any more info on your unit now that you have used it a bit more? Any second hand info on these or other units in these classes? Thanks.

rswyan · Nov 14, 2004

( I have been digging around for weeks now and am leaning toward the Miller 210 with the 3035 spool gun unless I can find out how easy the aluinum feed kit is to use on the Lincoln255. Lots of good things said about it by lots of users. )

I believe that the spoolgun setup on the MM210 is better than on the Lincoln (the PowerMIG 215) - at least in that you just pickup whichever lead you want to use and burn. On the PowerMIG 215 you have to flip a switch to use the spoolgun - dunno if it's like that on the PowerMIG 255 or not.

I believe the voltage control on the MM210 (and MM255 and PowerMIG 255) are infinitely variable - which can be good or bad depending - good in that you can dial the unit in very precisely - bad in that it might be harder to set up correctly, and to repeat previous settings. The PowerMIG 215 is a tapped unit with seven tap selections for voltage control, which allows setting the unit to exactly the same voltage settings every time. I have seen a number of experienced, professional welders on the Hobart boards commenting that they had no problems with a tapped unit, and some even preferred them (repeatability) If you plan on switching back and forth alot with aluminum and steel I'd imagine that having a spoolgun would be the more convienent setup.

( I really looked at the ESAB multi function 260. That machines has MIG< STICK< TIG all on board. It is pricey but nice. )

Yeah they look really nice - I looked at those too but there was no way I could go the ticket. One comment I did find on the Hobart boards that would lead me to do some investigation before I went with a ESAB unit was made by a guy who said that his local welding supplier sold RED & BLUE but serviced all three brands. The comment was that the supplier had one 55 gallon drum for replaced parts for the RED machines, one for the BLUE machines but 5 for the YELLOW machines.

( Any more info on your unit now that you have used it a bit more? )

All I can tell you is that it has worked great for me so far - absolutely no problems - which is pretty good, considering that I am a complete newbie to welding with no formal education in it, just having been shown a little by my neighbor who is a professional welder with 30 years experience. He thinks there might be hope. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I have used the PowerMIG 215 to weld up the bed frame for a 2 ton dump wagon I am building (see attached pic), welding 3" x 2" rectangular tube with wall thicknesses from .25" to .1875", plus some other fab work on various pieces of equimpment (leaf vac, new stand for my Harbor Freight bandsaw, brackets for my pallet forks, etc.), thickest being .375 barstock. The thinnest I've (sucessfully) welded with it is 16 gauge hot roll sheet that I used to make a boot for my mower deck for a leaf vacuum. Tried thinner but no joy (no doubt my fault) Ran a lot of bead on the dump bed frame and never had the unit exceed the duty cycle.

I have another project coming up with some thick stuff - 3/4" steel for the main wedge and a slip-on 4-way wedge for a logsplitter I am building. It will be interesting to see how it performs on that - it will have to be done in multiple passes because of the thickness.

One thing I like (and dislike) about MIG is how fast it is - allows you do get alot done in short order. On the otherhand, I often wish it took a little longer than it does so I could work on perfecting my technique and be able to dawdle a little bit and enjoy the actual experience - it always seems like I'm having to hurry as a result of the process (GMAW) I think someone here (wroughtenharv ?) wrote a rather poetic post on really getting into the actual doingness of it. For me that doesn't happen often (although I wish it did) because of the speed of the process and how short my welds are.

40Kchicks · Nov 14, 2004

I bought the esab multimaster 260 about a year and a half ago before they raised the price up so high. I got mine for $1850. I think they want about $2600 for this same machine now. It is one of my most used tools and has paid for itself a couple times over. It is the best stick machine I have ever used. I can’t believe how smooth it will run a rod. The mig gun is easy to use or you can get an adaptor to use a tweeco gun instead. The mig has lots of power. I spray arc all the time with it on thick metal. It has a four wheel wire drive system like ones found on more expensive system. The digital controls are precise but I don’t like how you have to push a button to change the screen from actual output to your setpoint. This is minor but annoying. My brothers is a welder and finds the controls strange compared to the Lincolns and millers he works with every day but I am used to them and have no problems. He does like how the welder welds.

The system comes set up for mig welding. You have to buy the tig set and stick stinger and spool gun ect ect ect. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gifThe tig is a dc only so as I understand it it is for regular and stainless steel and not aluminum. I want the foot control but haven’t got it yet. All these extras really add to the cost.

I have used the heck out of this machine and really like it. I also like the miller and Lincoln but bought the esab because at the time it was about the same price, had the four wheel drive, and did all the processes with the right attachments. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Eric

gray · Nov 14, 2004

Thanks Guys.

I am digging and the info you supply is giving me more good insights. No matter which one I end up with, I believe it will be a good machine. This is a bit like picking a tractor, most are good but one may fit your personal needs a bit better than another. I am still trying to narrow the scope of my future needs as to make a better choice and not over spend for something I will not use. I have done that more than once. Taking it slow seems to pay off.

gray · Nov 26, 2004

rswyan.

Hi,

I was seaching on google and found this thread you posted on. I am a TBN'r as well.

I just ordered a lincoln PM255 and was strongly considering the PM 215. I have spent much time on the miller/hobart site trying to learn more about them.

Can you tell me how your machine is working to date and if you have tried the aluminum feed kit? I am looking at my options and hope to make good choices. I would rather not make a big mistake and if asking a few quetions help --- I have to ask.

Thanks for any input you may offer.

rswyan · Nov 27, 2004

( Can you tell me how your machine is working to date and if you have tried the aluminum feed kit? )

It's working just fine - I'm about half way through my first tank of gas (an 80) - used it the other night to weld up the axle bracket for the wheels on my bandsaw stand. Mostly only been doing fab/welding stuff after dark or when the weather is bad (been trying to get all the other outside stuff done before the snow flies)

I haven't purchased or used the aluminum feed kit - I haven't had the need yet for any aluminum welding, although I do have a project down the road in a couple of months.

I think the PM 255 is a very nice machine - although if I had a spare $4K laying around the new PM350MP multi-process machine (MIG, TIG, stick) that they just intro'd ... looks mighty interesting.