Need Help with Security Cameras

[firefighter9208]

I need some suggestions on security cameras and recorders. I'm the assistant chief of our Volunteer Fire Department. We've had some issues with people doing donuts in the parking lot (tar and gravel) and now someone has stolen our U.S. flag . It's a 6x10 on top of a 40' pole. Kinda expensive to replace.


Our station is rural and not manned. There is one person that lives next door, but he works during the day.

I need some suggestions for security cameras and a recorder. I would like a camera would work at night to monitor the front parking lot. We do have a sign on top of the building that "somewhat" lights up the parking lot. I want to be able to tell who is in the video.

I also want a recorder that records to a "hard drive" not a video tape.

Here at school we have a digital recorder and I spoke with the guy that installed our system, but he wanted over $2,000 for two cameras and a recorder.

I want something that we can install ourselves. Is this a good system?


http://www.cctvsecuritypros.com/pse2cacocoso.html


Chris

 

[Car Doc]

I cant comment on that one it looks good I have used cameras from x-10.com with success they are inexpensive too.

I have had a mini wireless camera mounted at the peak of my roof at my business pointed at the driveway so I can see if someone is coming down the drive etc for probably 10 years running it 24/7/365 and it still works perfect rain or shine cost me about $35 I have it going into an old tv I had sitting around.

 

[dcyrilc]

I hate to say it, but it's one of those areas where you get what you pay for to a large degree. Cameras have improved in quality and come way down in price though since I started playing with them.

Look at the specs for the camera. You're going to want something which has a good low lux capability for your night vision. I'm not overly impressed with the cameras with the IR floods built in if you're looking more than 30-50 feet. Closer is better.

My first camera was .4 lux and has trouble seeing on a well lit street at night. The last camera I bought has a .0002 lux and can read a license plate at 300 feet in the dark with no light.

 

[beenthere]

If you think it is being done at night, then I'd suggest putting in motion detector lights. Bright lights, that come on and leave the intruder with the feeling that they are being caught on tape (of Digital). Lighting the vandals way with a light that is continuously on at night isn't much of a deterent, IMO.

If during the day, then motion detectors that also give off a blast of sound. (Guessing you feel the vandals are there during the day from the comment that the next door person is gone during the day).

For help with a system, I'd go to Radio Shack. Might have to work your way past the clerks who don't know so much and find the ones who do know what they have. But that is typical of any store (IMO).

 

[firefighter9208]

I hate to say it, but it's one of those areas where you get what you pay for to a large degree. Cameras have improved in quality and come way down in price though since I started playing with them.

Look at the specs for the camera. You're going to want something which has a good low lux capability for your night vision. I'm not overly impressed with the cameras with the IR floods built in if you're looking more than 30-50 feet. Closer is better.

My first camera was .4 lux and has trouble seeing on a well lit street at night. The last camera I bought has a .0002 lux and can read a license plate at 300 feet in the dark with no light.

Cyril,

What about this camera??? http://www.cctvsecuritypros.com/cososuhadccd3.html
Chris

 

[firefighter9208]

If you think it is being done at night, then I'd suggest putting in motion detector lights. Bright lights, that come on and leave the intruder with the feeling that they are being caught on tape (of Digital). Lighting the vandals way with a light that is continuously on at night isn't much of a deterent, IMO.

If during the day, then motion detectors that also give off a blast of sound. (Guessing you feel the vandals are there during the day from the comment that the next door person is gone during the day).

For help with a system, I'd go to Radio Shack. Might have to work your way past the clerks who don't know so much and find the ones who do know what they have. But that is typical of any store (IMO).

We have a fairly well lit parking lot, but turning on a bright light will only help them to see better. I want something that will record what is going on.

The system that I have linked to above is also viewable over a highspeed internet connection. I could log on with my Droid phone and see what's going on in the parking lot from home or work.

Chris

 

[tommu56]

We have a vicon system at work 2 dvr's and 32 cameras.
it does some sort of compression you draw a window in the picture and it will record if there is moment in the window.

here is the link it wasn't cheep but works flawlessly it uses cat 5 cable to the camers to carry video and power

ViconNet Software and Components

 

[eepete]

The cameras with the built-in IR emitters all have the problem that there is too much bleed over in the glass covering the front. So the night-vision view is always hazy. You want to get a camera and a separate IR illuminator if you want to "no light" ability.

I just ordered a DVR from the same people you're looking at (CCTV Security Pros), I'll let you know how it goes.

Around here, I got cameras from Super Circuits. They have some small high resolution bullet cameras (their PC337HR) that do OK. For the IR illuminators I used the IR23 and the bigger one (IR75?). Like tractors, bigger is better. I did not like the DVRs at Super Circuits.

Looking at all this stuff on the web is maddening. Incomplete specs, not all sites have the manuals available for download, different terminology, incorrect terminology. It takes a lot of time and then questions on the phone to know what capabilities you will actually be getting.

Finally, if you're really looking at just one or two cameras and have a computer at the station, the IP cameras (run on cat 5) that use the PC for the DVR might be a good bet. I have no direct experience with them, but have heard others say they got it going.

Pete

 

[dcyrilc]

Cyril,

What about this camera??? Color Sony Super HAD CCD Infrared Security Camera with 420 Lines,Hidden & Covert Cameras, - CCTVSecurityPros.com
Chris

Interesting that it lists it as having a 1/4" CCD in one area and a 1/3" CCD right below it??? Those types of things tend to make me nervous.

To me it's kind of a crap shoot when you get outside of the name brands. Sony is a good brand, but they make cheap CCD sensors too. All depends what the camera manufacturer orders.

 

[hawkeye08]

Costco has some systems that are reasonably priced and you can easily return them if they are not working out. I have almost bought one several times, still trying to decide how much of system I want.

This is one that I am looking at buying possibly.
Costco - Q-See 8 Channel Full D1 Resolution Security System 4 Day & Night High-Res CCD Cameras

 

[dcyrilc]

The cameras with the built-in IR emitters all have the problem that there is too much bleed over in the glass covering the front. So the night-vision view is always hazy. You want to get a camera and a separate IR illuminator if you want to "no light" ability.

I just ordered a DVR from the same people you're looking at (CCTV Security Pros), I'll let you know how it goes.

Around here, I got cameras from Super Circuits. They have some small high resolution bullet cameras (their PC337HR) that do OK. For the IR illuminators I used the IR23 and the bigger one (IR75?). Like tractors, bigger is better. I did not like the DVRs at Super Circuits.

Looking at all this stuff on the web is maddening. Incomplete specs, not all sites have the manuals available for download, different terminology, incorrect terminology. It takes a lot of time and then questions on the phone to know what capabilities you will actually be getting.

Finally, if you're really looking at just one or two cameras and have a computer at the station, the IP cameras (run on cat 5) that use the PC for the DVR might be a good bet. I have no direct experience with them, but have heard others say they got it going.

Pete

Pete said it very well.

When you want to get out of the cheap end stuff, the price goes up in a hurry. This is the DVR I use on the farm: Pelco DX7016 Series 16 Camera Digital Recorder Not something you jump out and buy without having a good reason.

...and this was the last camera body I bought: Pelco CCC1390H-6 Day/Night WDR <br>CCD Compact Camera Again, not cheap equipment.

 

[zzvyb6]

I have a 4 camera Q-See system from Costco (online order- on special) $299. Works nice. Internet viewing. A typo in the manual causes some confusion in the internet setup, but a computer geek can solve it easily.

Even some dummy signs and cameras should be considered as well as a Game cam. You really need 2 game cams: 1 el-cheapo to be 'seen and found' and one to do the high def job.

Post a Craigslist Wanted ad looking for a larger than average US flag. Then reel them in.

 

[dcyrilc]

This video Security cam video 1 - Tractor Videos - Kubota, John Deere, New Holland and More was taken from 200 feet with this camera Pelco CC3751H-2 Digital Color Security Camera<BR>High Resolution, Lowlight, DSS Technology and fair to moderate lighting.

This was my first recording and I was focused inside the gate expecting someone to cut the lock and drive in. After I refocused the camera to view past the gate we got the license number on the next theft about 6 months later.

 

[dcyrilc]

Same camera body in a different mount with better lighting. Security cam video 2 - Tractor Videos - Kubota, John Deere, New Holland and More Same theft.

Same theft and area with a cheaper camera body. Security cam video 3 - Tractor Videos - Kubota, John Deere, New Holland and More

You can easily see the difference in the quality of the cameras.

 

[eepete]

Interesting that it lists it as having a 1/4" CCD in one area and a 1/3" CCD right below it??? Those types of things tend to make me nervous.

Those are the problems with a lot of sites/companies. They have different specs listed for different cameras. Sometimes they tell you the current draw, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they tell you the CCD size, but not always. :mur:

Imagine looking at tractors and see that sometimes they tell you the GPM of the steering pump, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they tell you the PTO HP, sometimes just the engine HP.

There is also a random approach to the focal length. Sometimes it's in mm, sometimes it's a viewing angle. Sometimes none at all. My most expensive camera is one where I bought a high resolution, low lux color and then had to buy the lens separately so I could get a zoom lens. It is inside the house, but zooms out to a section of the driveway so you get a good look at who is coming. The camera has a cable to the lens so it can adjust the iris. It all totaled out at about $250, but great results, completely undetectable and very secure. Again, more money when you buy the camera and the lens separately, but better results and more options than an all in one.

It takes looking at a lot of sites to "divine" the jargon and possible features. Just about everyone in the 'bidness needs to be taken out and flogged.

Cyril, that DVR is so sweet that it ought to come with a buddy seat!

Pete

 

[wrooster]

there is an immense thread over on ar15.com which has details on every aspect of security cameras and associated recording equipment, wiring, etc. -- including tons of pictures comparing resolution, light sensitivity, and so on.

CCTV cameras 101: **Table of Contents in OP** Updated 26 Jan - AR15.COM

wrooster

 

[dcyrilc]

Those are the problems with a lot of sites/companies. They have different specs listed for different cameras. Sometimes they tell you the current draw, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they tell you the CCD size, but not always. :mur:

Imagine looking at tractors and see that sometimes they tell you the GPM of the steering pump, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they tell you the PTO HP, sometimes just the engine HP.

There is also a random approach to the focal length. Sometimes it's in mm, sometimes it's a viewing angle. Sometimes none at all. My most expensive camera is one where I bought a high resolution, low lux color and then had to buy the lens separately so I could get a zoom lens. It is inside the house, but zooms out to a section of the driveway so you get a good look at who is coming. The camera has a cable to the lens so it can adjust the iris. It all totaled out at about $250, but great results, completely undetectable and very secure.

It takes looking at a lot of site to "divine" the jargon and possible features. Just about everyone in the 'bidness needs to be taken out and flogged.

Pete

Quite true. A lot has changed since I put my system together as well.

 

[Wesdor]

A very nice piece of software is EvoCam. It runs less than $50 and can be triggered by motion in a definable field in the camera. It even can be set to record several seconds before the motion is detected. Once running it records to your hard drive. There are some reasonably good USB web cameras for about $100.
I'm not sure if EvoCam is available for PC but I own it for the Mac. Assuming you have a Mac already you could get into a solution for under $200

 

[BruceWard]

I recently installed an 8 camera Night Owl system from New Egg in a friends store. The kit included 50' of cable for each camera, a 16 channel DVR that records for about 2 weeks before looping in their busy store and the 8 camers for $700. I suggest you look at these Newegg.com - Night Owl

 

[firefighter9208]

I may have messed up, but I ordered this system "PRO SERIES" 2 Camera Complete Outdoor/Indoor Color Sony Super HAD CCD 480 Lines Infrared Bullet Security Camera System with H.264 DVR, HDMI High Definition, Internet (IE, MAC) and Cell Phone Remote Viewing (Blackberry, iPhone, Droid, 3G, Windows CE, . From the front of our building to the road is only about 75 feet. We have this sign Holly Springs Volunteer Fire Department on top of the building (it has 8 10' T8 bulbs in it) that lights the parking lot.

We are going to put the other camera on the back of the building pointing toward a walk in door. There is a security light beside the door, so that area is lit up pretty well too.

The system I bought can be set to notify my cell phone if there is motion in front of the camera.

We also can add 2 more cameras (it's a 4 channel dvr) later. If we need better quality cameras I can buy them then.

I'm about to order another 6x10 flag and we'll put that up after the camera system is installed. :thumbsup:

Thanks for all the help and recommendations!!!

Chris