Need help figuring out barn extension

[jcummins]

I got to thinking about using this old style nail puller......it DID have a sliding handle on it. It was 40 years or so ago that I used one, and thinking back......On those nails embedded, you could put the jaws at the edge of the nail head, and use the sliding handle to pound those jaws under the nail head, then pull like with a claw hammer. What damaged it did, which was slight, is right at the nail head itself.

 

[two_bit_score]

I got to thinking about using this old style nail puller......it DID have a sliding handle on it. It was 40 years or so ago that I used one, and thinking back......On those nails embedded, you could put the jaws at the edge of the nail head, and use the sliding handle to pound those jaws under the nail head, then pull like with a claw hammer. What damaged it did, which was slight, is right at the nail head itself.

There is a two piece handle on those pullers. But, the teeth on the end that grabs the nail hold by pressure from the foot as you rock it back to pull the nail. Isn’t the two piece handle designed to extend the length of the handle to give you more leverage? Are you sure it’s designed to be used as a slide hammer?

 

[jcummins]

There is a two piece handle on those pullers. But, the teeth on the end that grabs the nail hold by pressure from the foot as you rock it back to pull the nail. Isn’t the two piece handle designed to extend the length of the handle to give you more leverage? Are you sure it’s designed to be used as a slide hammer?

I'm not sure. But i seem to recall using it as as sliding pounder to get those claws under the head. 40+ years ago memory a bit vague. I for sure was very happy to have the use if it. Tried to buy it as i recall, my friend said no. Back in those days no internet to get those odd things, and i never saw one in a store.

 

[petebert]

Yeah, I checked one out at the local hardware store and it was definitely a slide hammer built in. It looks like you grapple the head and then use the slide hammer.

That being said, I decided to try a 13" Channellock nipper first. They're relatively cheap and seem like a nice tool to have in the tool box anyways. Went out and tried a couple nails with it. I actually haven't been successful in cutting a nail head off yet but know what it does really well? Pulls nails out. It easily crushes rubber grommet and gets a good grip behind the head, then you just pull like you would with a claw hammer and the nail comes right out. The only problem I've had is with nails they pounded in too tight so there's nothing to grip onto.

 

[downsizingnow48]

I needed to pull off some siding at a neighbor's place a few days ago. Decided to try something different. This Bosch oscillating tool with a carbide blade cut the heads off the nails just about as quick as you can touch the blade to the nail. No effort required at all.

 

[petebert]

I'm planning this out in google sketchup before I get started to make sure my measurements are all correct. Doing the rafters seemed simple enough but I'm not sure how to do the outer rafters.

My original thinking was for the new outer posts and existing outer posts to be directly lined up, then I run my girts and the siding installs like a continuous wall off of the existing barn.

The existing header sticks out 1.5" from the corner posts. Like in the picture below. Dark brown is existing wood, light brown is new wood, big white thing is the existing soffit/overhang.

This was plan A, line up the outer rafter with the post and it will leave enough space for a hanger to fit. Problem is that big flat spot in the new corner, that angle would be different from all of the other rafters so I don't see how that would work.

Big flat spot

Plan B, I run the outer rafter on the inside of the corner post. But now there's nothing to attach my siding to up top.

Plan C, I nail the rafter to the outside edge of the headers but this doesn't seem weight bearing at all. Could I do plan B and then plan C just becomes a fascia board essentially?

 

[pmsmechanic]

I would lower your outside wall so that the rafter sits on top of the header instead of butting up to it. Your rafters will be a lot stronger.

 

[EddieWalker]

You need to install a header, or a beam on the inside portion of your exterior wall along with the one you already have on the outside, and then the rafter rests on both of them. No special cuts needed, just run it out to create an overhang, or cut it flush to end it at the wall.

Ideally, you always want lumber resting on top of other lumber.

 

[RippySkippy]

Yeah, I checked one out at the local hardware store and it was definitely a slide hammer built in. It looks like you grapple the head and then use the slide hammer.

That being said, I decided to try a 13" Channellock nipper first. They're relatively cheap and seem like a nice tool to have in the tool box anyways. Went out and tried a couple nails with it. I actually haven't been successful in cutting a nail head off yet but know what it does really well? Pulls nails out. It easily crushes rubber grommet and gets a good grip behind the head, then you just pull like you would with a claw hammer and the nail comes right out. The only problem I've had is with nails they pounded in too tight so there's nothing to grip onto.

with your other hand or perhaps the hand of a helper, push in on the ridge while closing the nippers. SOMETIMES it works, but if it's on the top of the double ridge it can be really difficult. Pulling rather than cutting really will save time.

 

[RippySkippy]

I got to thinking about using this old style nail puller......it DID have a sliding handle on it. It was 40 years or so ago that I used one, and thinking back......On those nails embedded, you could put the jaws at the edge of the nail head, and use the sliding handle to pound those jaws under the nail head, then pull like with a claw hammer. What damaged it did, which was slight, is right at the nail head itself.

Oh gawd, the memories of the slide handle catching skin on the down stroke...you only do that once or twice to reinforce the need to not do that again!

 

[petebert]

Should I do any rafter ties? Not sure if that's the correct term for this but a horizontal board that runs from the new walls header to the wall of the existing board. It's a 14 foot span. Or can it stay open like in the picture below?

 

[EddieWalker]

Simpson has a metal bracket for just about every type of connection, and 100% of the time, using them is better then not using them. I'm not exactly sure what you are asking, but will reply as if you where asking for ideas how to do this. I would attach my rafters to the existing building with joist hangers. I like the screws Simpson sells with the bolt heads on them. I forget the name of them, but they go in quick and easy using my cordless impact driver. Short ones for the hangers, long ones for tying the joist into the header.

On the outside wall, I would have a header on the inside of the wall and rest my joists on top of that. You don't have this in your drawing. Then I would have the end of the joist resting on top of the header on the outside of the wall. Then attach the joists to the headers with hurricane straps, or rafter ties, or whatever you feel will work best for that location.

I would not attach anything into the end grain of a rafter or joist.

 

[petebert]

I decided against sitting on top of the header due to maximizing space. If I leave the header at the top of the posts and put the rafters on top of that I lose my 3/12 pitch if I want a 14' extension. There will also be a door on the new wall. This will be for livestock who aren't too picky about the opening size but I thought it would be nice to leave options available to me. Right now with an 8' eave and a 12" header I'm down to a 7' opening height and I didn't want to reduce that further.

The simpson screws are called strong ties which I planned on using. On those simpson hangers, so the long screw runs through the diagonal hole on the side? I guess the idea is you're tying joist/hanger/header all together?

What I asked earlier is if there should be a rafter tie, like in this picture to create the strength of a triangle. Just have to ignore half that picture since mine isn't a traditional roof, but a half roof.

 

[EddieWalker]

I see what you are saying now. Yes, that would give you more strength. Do you need it is the question. In my opinion, I do not think you do for a lean to that is securly attached to the existing building. I forget what you said you where using for your rafters, but if it was me, I would go with 2x8's or bigger.

I would also suggest you reconsider resting the rafters on top of a header, or a beam. For the walk through door, you can get away with a shorter span, and less wood above it to squeeze in a walk through door as long as the rest of the wall was properly sized. Given the spacing of your rafters, you might not even need a header over your doorway.

How far apart are you spacing your rafters? If at 48 inches, you just need a post under each rafter and the weight of your roof would rest directly on top of the posts. That would be the strongest of all possibilities.

Looking at your drawing, you have a lot of rafters. Are you going to shingle a 3:12 pitch roof or use metal? Shingles should never be used on anything less then 4:12, so metal is a much better choice. If using metal, you can space your rafters out 4 feet and use 2x4's on the flat for your purlins. That makes it really easy to find when screwing in the metal too!!!

 

[petebert]

Yes 2x8 rafters, 2' spacing, no purlins, OSB and metal roof was what I was planning.

 

[GLyford]

I guess I am not seeing where a header under the rafters would cost you space, unless you are counting every inch going out the side, vs. the ends?

 

[GLyford]

And if that were the case, I'd notch it single depth and then double it (same end profile as you have now, but the rafters are 1-1/2" shorter) and use longer nails in your rafter hangers to hit both 2x's...?

Edited to add:
Your other sketch shows girts, so you'd only really need a taller header over the doorway at the last bay?

 

[petebert]

The door opening would be 7 1/4" lower, assuming 2x8 rafters. The door opening currently sits at roughly 7' tall, so now you're down to 6' 5". Not a huge difference but you are starting to limit what you might be able to use it for down the road.