Need Help Choosing Truck

[miramadar]

I'm looking to buy another truck to tow my compact tractor and I need some help deciding what I need. I own a Kioti CK27 that, I figure, weighs about 5000lbs with the FEL, box blade and loaded rear tires. The trailer I have is a 16', dual axle car hauler. I guess it weighs about 2000lbs give or take.

I currently own a Dodge 1500, 318 ci, automatic, and it just won't pull it. I hauled about 4000lbs of concrete blocks with it back in the fall and I thought I was really going to hurt the truck. It's just not heavy enough and the transmission was getting really hot (no cooler).

Anyway, I found this truck on Craigslist and I want to get the opinions from the experienced folks on this forum as to whether or not this would fit my bill:

F-250 4x4

It's got a 5.0L (302) motor, 5-speed manual w/ bulldog. The current owner says it would have no problem pulling my load. What do you guys think? It has a gooseneck hitch and the fellow said he regularly pulled a 16' box trailer loaded w/ tools with no problems at all.

Any help?

 

[Soundguy]

hmm.. I have a dodge with 5.9 ( 360 ) and have no problem pulling a 7000# loaded 16' trailer with a tractor on it... have electric brakes. I pull in state with it.. You using the tow/haul cutout.. it really saves heat in the tranny plus some wear.

in any case.. the 3/4 ton should be a breeze. For out of state hauling I use a f250 to tote that same rig..

soundguy

 

[Diamondpilot]

There is a world of difference between the 360 and the 318 Chris. Anyway there was no mention of gears which can make a realativly weak motor like a 302 Ford or a 350 Chevy look great.

I would pass on that truck. I would want no less than a 351 in a truck used to pull. Also you want 3.73 gears as a minimum but with a small block gasser I would get 4.10's.

Chris

 

[Soundguy]

I personally don't like small er trucks for lots of pulling anyway.. though for short hauls they aren't bad.

my buddy has a dodge 1500 witht he 318. I've pulled a 2 horse trailer with it.. other than less take off power.. it ain't bad.. but then.. it ain't anything like pulling with a 3/4 ton..

soundguy

 

[miramadar]

There is a world of difference between the 360 and the 318 Chris. Anyway there was no mention of gears which can make a realativly weak motor like a 302 Ford or a 350 Chevy look great.

I would pass on that truck. I would want no less than a 351 in a truck used to pull. Also you want 3.73 gears as a minimum but with a small block gasser I would get 4.10's.

Chris

I need to get up with on the gears. I don't really know much about that aspect of trucks myself, but I can do some research. Thanks for the replies!:thumbsup:

 

[Diamondpilot]

I need to get up with on the gears. I don't really know much about that aspect of trucks myself, but I can do some research. Thanks for the replies!:thumbsup:

Andy

In a nut shell gears make power.

Ford common gears are :

3.55
3.73
4.10

What this means is, for a truck with 3.55 gears, for each full revolution of the rear wheels it takes 3.55 turns of the drive shaft coming from the tranny to accomplish this. This 3.55 gear will be a dog pulling but give better fuel economy.

3.73 gears are a compromise. 3.73 turns of the drive shaft to turn the rear wheels one full revolution.

4.10 gears would take 4.10 turns of the drive shaft to turn the rear wheels one full revolution. This kills fuel economy for daily driving but will yield better fuel economy when pulling near max capacity.

So all things being equal 4.10 gears will give about 15% more power and torque vs a truck with 3.55 gears.

Think back to when you rode your first 10 speed bike. If you were starting off in a big gear it was tough to get up to speed but once there you could go along pretty good with little effort. If you start off in a small gear you can really get out of the hole quick and up to speed but to maintain that speed you must pedal really hard and fast.


Chris

 

[dodge man]

I had a 98 Dodge Ram 4x4 club cab with the 318 and it wasn't bad for towing. I would think it would tow the load you are talking about but would be near the limits. Thats assuming its in good shape and running good. Mine had 3.55 gears. Like others have said gears can make a huge difference. The 3.55 gears in my truck were a step up and stock may have been some thing like a 3.08 which may be what you have and not that great for towing. There is not a big difference between the 318 and 360 in towing. I have experince with both, but all things being equal, the 360 will do better.

 

[Soundguy]

drink more gas too.. my ram is thirsty... i do way better with the f250 psd 6.0

soundguy

 

[RobertN]

Great description in your post.

What you did not mention that I am sure you are aware of, is there are other gears besides those available. Just would be aftermarket. There is actually a wide range of gears out there. A ring/pinion change is ~$500 proposition.

FWIW, my old gasser('89 F250 351 manual 4x4) did a lot better towing and hauling my slide in camper when I switched from 3.55 to 4.10 gears.

In a nut shell gears make power.

Ford common gears are :

3.55
3.73
4.10

 

[RobertN]

That truck should pull that load. The 318 is a great motor. Not a huge powerhouse, but still a good motor.

I would ask more about the truck. Is it stock? 2wd or 4wd, and are the tires stock size?

This is just a guess, but it is probably a matter of a tall highway gear(ie 3.0, 3.23 or thereabouts). Or, it is 4x4, and has highway gears AND bigger tires...

Take a look around the rear differential. Should be a tag on one of the bolts on the diff, that should say the gear ratio.

Might be as simple as a minor gear change and a tranny cooler. Still would not win any races, but would be fine for local towing.

I currently own a Dodge 1500, 318 ci, automatic, and it just won't pull it. I hauled about 4000lbs of concrete blocks with it back in the fall and I thought I was really going to hurt the truck. It's just not heavy enough and the transmission was getting really hot (no cooler).

 

[miramadar]

What you did not mention that I am sure you are aware of, is there are other gears besides those available. Just would be aftermarket. There is actually a wide range of gears out there. A ring/pinion change is ~$500 proposition.

FWIW, my old gasser('89 F250 351 manual 4x4) did a lot better towing and hauling my slide in camper when I switched from 3.55 to 4.10 gears.

So, I could change the ring/pinion gears in my '98 Ram 1500 (automatic tranny) and maybe get some better towing performance? That might be an option, but my truck doesn't have a transmission cooler and so wouldn't it still be lacking there?

 

[Soundguy]

do you have a tow/haul mode? do you use it?

soundguy

 

[RobertN]

A ring/pinion change on a 2wd is about ~$400-500. When I had mine done in my old Ford, it took them(4x4 shop) about an hour or two. It requires a ring/pinion/ seal kit, and oil. There is a small gear that is changed in the tranny, so the speedometer read correctly.

It is really a pretty simple and relatively inexpensive mod(at least for just one axle in a 2wd).

I would still add an aftermarket tranny cooler. They are not very expensive. And, while at it, probably change the tranny fluid and filter just as good general maintenance.

3.73 or 3.90 gears are a nice compromise.

So, I could change the ring/pinion gears in my '98 Ram 1500 (automatic tranny) and maybe get some better towing performance? That might be an option, but my truck doesn't have a transmission cooler and so wouldn't it still be lacking there?

 

[miramadar]

A ring/pinion change on a 2wd is about ~$400-500.

Mine is 4wd...

do you have a tow/haul mode? do you use it?

soundguy

No tow mode. OD/Off switch is all.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[dodge man]

It's pretty pricey to switch gears on a 4wd because you have to do the front and the back. Probably not worth the money. I towed with my 98, maybe a 5000 pound load, and it worked a little bit to get up to speed but wasn't bad at all. Does it run O.K. ?

If you want to get a rough idea on the gear ratio, jack up the rear end and count the driveshaft turns compared to the tire turns. Its hard to get the exact number but you can get close, such as 3, 3.5 or 4. My guess is you have something close to 3.08 rear end.

Edit: Did a little research and it looks like 3:21 was maybe the stock gears.

 

[RobertN]

Ya, that means two axles, ~$800-1000 for a basic gear change.

I did mine partly for towing and hauling a big cabover camper, and for four wheeling while hunting.

One thing of note, you have not mentioned tire size. Any time you go up in tire size, you effectively lose gearing. If you have big tires, then you will have poor towing performance.

That was part of why I changed my old truck from 3.55 to 4.11; I went to a 35" tall tire too. Without 4.11's, the performance was really pretty mediocre. 4.11's with the 35's worked out real nice though.

Mine is 4wd...

 

[RobertN]

I forgot to ask, has your tranny been kept up for service; ie fluid and filter changes, band adjustments? How many miles are on it?

It's just not heavy enough and the transmission was getting really hot (no cooler).

 

[Diamondpilot]

All good advise here. Changing the gearing on a 4x4 that age is not worth the money.

Tranny coolers are cheap. You can get a generic one for under $50.

Chris

 

[miramadar]

I forgot to ask, has your tranny been kept up for service; ie fluid and filter changes, band adjustments? How many miles are on it?

Well, yes and no. I had a gasket leaking in the trans fluid pan and let it go for a while. Started to slip, so I got the tranny flushed, new gasket and filter. Has worked like new since. No band adjustments.

One thing of note, you have not mentioned tire size. Any time you go up in tire size, you effectively lose gearing. If you have big tires, then you will have poor towing performance.

I have the stock tires, P245's, on it now. Had larger tires on it for a while, but the ride suffered and ended up having to replace a CV joint. Performs much better w/ the stock tires.

Does it run O.K. ?

Yes. The engine runs fine. I have regularly maintained it.

In pulling that heavy load a few months back, I had to pull a pretty steep grade for about 3 miles. The truck couldn't get out of 2nd gear. It would go to 3rd, lose RPM's, and switch back to 2nd. So, I just found what sounded to be a comfortable RMP for the truck and pulled the mountain like that. Once at the top of the mountain, the transmission temp light came on. Luckily there was a gas station at the top of the mountain and I pulled off for about an hour and let it cool. It did okay the rest of the trip (about 20 miles down the mountain and on mostly level ground), but I could tell it was really taxing the truck. It had no acceleration and braking wasn't very good either. I did about 25 MPH the whole way. I was hauling about 145 cement blocks (about 4350lbs at 30lbs per block).

So, in regard to my original question, whether or not the truck listed on Craigslist could tow up to 6000lbs (F-250 4x4), I seem to get the impression from this forum that the 302 ci motor really isn't powerful enough, but a lot depends on the gear ratio. Right? I asked the seller about the gear ratio, but he didn't know. So, buy or no buy?

 

[Diamondpilot]

Like I said, I would pass. I would want nothing less than a 351 in a Ford. I would take your truck to the tranny shop that you had perform the work and have them install a cooler asap. They are cheap. I would think you could have it done for under $150.

As for Dodge trannys, they are the weak spot. I had a 2500 Hemi that had to have the tranny replace 3 times in 3 years. First time was under warranty and Dodge did it. Second time I put a Jasper in it. Funny thing is Jasper will not warranty it without the installation of a larger cooler which I did. The last time it went out I traded it in as is and took a bath.

We also had a Dodge Dakota at work as a run around vehicle. The tranny went out on it also but it had about 80K on it. Never pulled a single thing in its life. Anyway we put a Jasper in it also and once again it required a larger cooler.

Chris