Need advice on whole-house generators

[s219]

We're getting to final stages of planning a new house, and one detail I need to consider is a generator. The house will be out in the country with less reliable power and longer restoration times after storms, so we're thinking it would be good to have a generator. I'm thinking something in the 17-20kW range would be a good size to have for short-term emergency use.

There is no natural gas service in that area, so it looks like propane is the best option. Are there other generator fuels I should consider? Diesel?

We weren't planning to have propane for any other reason, so this either means having a tank just for the generator, or maybe reevaluating the idea of having a propane furnace and hot water heater. Current plans are to build the house with 6" spray-foamed walls, so we can get away with only having a heat pump (supplemented with wood heat for very cold weather) in this part of the country. The hot water heater would be electric.

Does anyone have a propane whole house generator and only have a propane tank on hand for that? What kind of propane consumption do these generators have over, say, a day? I am wondering how big of a tank is needed for short term emergency use for 5-7 days.

Finally, any thoughts on air-cooled versus water-cooled generators?

Thanks in advance!

 

[brin]

We built our house 7 yrs. ago and had it set up for a generator with the electrician...We looked at the different generators and decided to buy a PTO generator powered by our tractor....We live in the country too and there have been ice storms with 1 week power outages and the PTO generator works fine and consumes about 6 gallons of diesel a day if I left it running all day which we do not...WE only run it long enough to warm or cool the house , flush toilets, wash clothes and store some water...then we turn it off and start it back when we need it again...It was thousands cheaper than a stand by propane generator and we priced them all...and in the 7 yrs. we have only needed it once....I am glad we made the choice we did...a generator is for emergencies and they are few and far between so we are glad we did not sink thousands into something that would just sit 95% of the time...Good Luck with your choice.

 

[Kal130]

When I built my house I prewired for generator, ran conduits to a pad out back that also contained my propane tank, then figured I would get generator later. Well so far I have learned that going to an REMC vs a big power company means that when the power goes out I'm looking at a several hour wait to get It back vs several days or weeks. I, like the previous poster am leaning toward the PTO generator now that I have a tractor. I wouldn't underestimate the "not having another engine sitting around that won't start when you need It most" factor. I also figure it will be handy to have portable power around the farm. Rural King sells a pretty sweet 15kw unit for about $1200.

 

[s219]

I do like the idea of a PTO generator, but around here tractors get a lot of use right after a storm, cleaning up trees/etc (after Irene, we cleaned up about 25-30 trees just at my mother-in-law's place alone, and the tractor was a key piece of equipment in that work). So at least for me, that would be about the worst time to call on the tractor to run a generator -- it would really be needed for other things.

 

[strum456]

We are pretty far off the beaten path, and up in them mountains where it is windy and snowy. Short power outages occur several times per year, but anything longer than 8 hours is rare. We have had week-long outages, and our welder/generator has allowed us to heat the house and run the water pump. It seems that we need to do this about once every 10 years.

 

[murphy1244]

We built our house 7 yrs. ago and had it set up for a generator with the electrician...We looked at the different generators and decided to buy a PTO generator powered by our tractor....We live in the country too and there have been ice storms with 1 week power outages and the PTO generator works fine and consumes about 6 gallons of diesel a day if I left it running all day which we do not...WE only run it long enough to warm or cool the house , flush toilets, wash clothes and store some water...then we turn it off and start it back when we need it again...It was thousands cheaper than a stand by propane generator and we priced them all...and in the 7 yrs. we have only needed it once....I am glad we made the choice we did...a generator is for emergencies and they are few and far between so we are glad we did not sink thousands into something that would just sit 95% of the time...Good Luck with your choice.

you will still need a transfer switch as to not blow up your box.

 

[brin]

you will still need a transfer switch as to not blow up your box.

We have a transfer switch...Murphy, like I said we had the house prewired in anticipation for a back up generator when we built it..

 

[brin]

I do like the idea of a PTO generator, but around here tractors get a lot of use right after a storm, cleaning up trees/etc (after Irene, we cleaned up about 25-30 trees just at my mother-in-law's place alone, and the tractor was a key piece of equipment in that work). So at least for me, that would be about the worst time to call on the tractor to run a generator -- it would really be needed for other things.

Keep in mind you will not need to run your generator 24/7....you don't use your existing power 24/7 as it is...I mean it is on and available but you don't really need it ...that is why I said if the power goes out and it is cold outside..WE will start the generator and run it until the house is real warm, toilets flushed, showers taken etc. and then I can unplug the generator and take the tractor off for a few hours to do other things or just park it...Then when the need arises I can reconnect the the generator to the house and do it all over again...The tractor always starts but a generator that just sits and only gets run an hour a month....plus the cost and propane cost...I dunno...Check out the usage rate on fuel on those ...the eat the propane...500 gallons won't last you long....you will see..

 

[scott_vt]

Good Afternoon s219,
Propane is an excellent choice for several reasons. You wont have to lug fuel cans, your not constantly replenishing your fuel tank, it wont freeze up in the dead of winter.....

You would want at least one 100 gal tank, preferably two...

And BTW, if you have propane, consider getting rid of that electric hot water tank and use propane, much cheaper to run, you might even consider a propane insert in our fireplace for supplementary heat. So this gives you heat, hot water and electricity all with propane...

Good Luck in your choice !

 

[techman]

I would strongly recommend a diesel genset. First of all you get the best fuel consumption/cost with a diesel, especially if you buy off-road diesel or heating oil. Second diesel engines, at least good ones (not chinese junk) are among the most reliable engines, you can store the fuel for years without degradation, if you control moisture.

I have a kubota powered 10KW unit and I can far outlast my neighbors with their propane. As far as the cold weather, in N.E. PA the fuel has never had a problem in the cold weather, nor with starting. My genset is in a shed along with the fuel, so once it is running, the fuel is warmed by the engine.

I would recommend an 1800 RPM unit for long life and quiet operation. My previous was a 3600 RPM and the 1800 is so much nicer. I have a manual start and transfer, by choice, since I don't want it running when no one is home. I can start it from the house, so it is convenient even for the wife.

 

[jymbee]

I would strongly recommend a diesel genset.

I agree. I don't have much use for propane anything beyond our BBQ grill.

Not unusual for power to go out in the rural area we live in for an hour or so-- sometimes several hours. Worst was hurricane Irene when we were powerless for days and many others around here were out for weeks.

I don't mind hauling diesel and we always have quite a bit on hand given the diesel truck, tractor & backhoe. I tend to prefer to use fuels I can see & touch-- like diesel & firewood for example. Cant' really go out and cut a cord of propane... or siphon some out of a friendly neighbors tank.

 

[Phils]

We're getting to final stages of planning a new house, and one detail I need to consider is a generator. The house will be out in the country with less reliable power and longer restoration times after storms, so we're thinking it would be good to have a generator. I'm thinking something in the 17-20kW range would be a good size to have for short-term emergency use.

There is no natural gas service in that area, so it looks like propane is the best option. Are there other generator fuels I should consider? Diesel?

We weren't planning to have propane for any other reason, so this either means having a tank just for the generator, or maybe reevaluating the idea of having a propane furnace and hot water heater. Current plans are to build the house with 6" spray-foamed walls, so we can get away with only having a heat pump (supplemented with wood heat for very cold weather) in this part of the country. The hot water heater would be electric.

Does anyone have a propane whole house generator and only have a propane tank on hand for that? What kind of propane consumption do these generators have over, say, a day? I am wondering how big of a tank is needed for short term emergency use for 5-7 days.

Finally, any thoughts on air-cooled versus water-cooled generators?

Thanks in advance!

I can offer my experiences, tho it is a different situation. Guess that REALLY means YMMV.

Our generator is propane, 10kw Kohler. We have a backup gas Honda 4KW (hasn't been needed in many years). Propane is clean burning and doesn't go bad just sitting in the tank like gas or diesel. We only run the gen when there's not enough sunshine ... most of the year it isn't used. (I had to install a dedicated solar panel to keep the starting battery charged because it's used so little). It's air-cooled and 10KW has been more than sufficient for power.

Cooking is easier and better with gas (propane) IMHO. I've had electric ranges and maybe it's a Ford-Chevy kind of discussion, but I'd resist ever going back to electric.

I believe a water heater costs more with electric than gas but I have no actual figures to support that belief.

With today's high propane costs, I guesstimate our generator costs about $5/hour to run.

If you have "less reliable power" I'd think anything you operate on gas would be more reliable than electric, tho for a range's ignitors you'd need to have a backup electric supply (or use matches for the range, an oven would need the electric power to keep the supply valve open).

With all that in mind, are you going to have a backup power source for the times you are "off grid"? In your case, one inverter and some batteries with appropiate switching will keep you living normally even if your grid is down.

Phil

 

[HCJtractor]

Everyone's situation is different. I live in a city but since it's an old neighborhood with overhead lines and mature trees, we lose power fairly frequently due to ice storms. Longest was 7 days. I use a Miller bobcat 10000 W welder/generator and run it on gasoline. Yeah I have to fill it once a day, but it works great. I have it on a trailer so I simply park it in my carport. This way I could justify a nice welder for farm use, so I use it regularly for welding and power at the farm, but have it on hand for emergencies. It certainly is not as convenient as a dedicated built in system, but lots cheaper, has dual use, and works just as well. Of course a source of gasoline is required. In the last 14 years, I have used it 3 or 4 times for emergencies but countless times for welding or offsite power. (plus I could justify its cost to my wife as for emergencies whereas I really wanted it for my farm and to weld!)

 

[techman]

Our generator is propane, 10kw Kohler. We have a backup gas Honda 4KW (hasn't been needed in many years). Propane is clean burning and doesn't go bad just sitting in the tank like gas or diesel.

Phil

Diesel does NOT go bad sitting in the tank. The greatest danger is absorbed moisture can promote fungus growth. This can easily be controlled by a bit of additive. Think of home heating oil (same as #2 diesel). It does not go bad sitting around all summer or all year.

paul

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I do like the idea of a PTO generator, but around here tractors get a lot of use right after a storm, cleaning up trees/etc (after Irene, we cleaned up about 25-30 trees just at my mother-in-law's place alone, and the tractor was a key piece of equipment in that work). So at least for me, that would be about the worst time to call on the tractor to run a generator -- it would really be needed for other things.

When you are out cleaning up downed trees, you don't need a generator.

 

[avphile]

Another vote here for a diesel unit. In the next few years im planning on installing a diesel generator with a large auxiliary tank i can fed it from as well as my tractor and backhoe. I have propane for cooking, heat and hot water but in the middle of the ice storm we had here a few years ago if i had run out of propane, the propane truck wouldn't have been able to get back my 2000' driveway to fill my tank. But i could have gotten my 55 gallon drum of diesel fuel from the station to my tank.

As a side note two years ago i moved from a large utility company to a local REMC and the reliability has been amazing, the outages are few and far between and under 4 hours but we haven't had any major events recently either.

 

[nybirdman]

Lots of debate here on the choice of stand- alone or PTO gen sets.My choice was a 10K PTO unit,Tiger Power.Has served well when needed. I know my tractor will start and I have enough fuel on hand.
Propane/natural gas units need to start once a month,usually automatic.

 

[mikim]

We had diesel gensets at my office....I didn't want that hassle anymore so went with a 10kw propane ....but then in my house - if it generates heat - it's propane. I have a 1000 gal tank and fill it once annually. The only thing I know about the genset fuel consumption is what it says in the manual.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Diesel does NOT go bad sitting in the tank. The greatest danger is absorbed moisture can promote fungus growth. This can easily be controlled by a bit of additive. Think of home heating oil (same as #2 diesel). It does not go bad sitting around all summer or all year.

paul

Diesel has a much longer storage life than gasoline, but it doesn't last forever. Also, home heating oil runs through a low pressure furnace burner, not high pressure atomizing injectors. With diesel Sta-Bil you can keep diesel around for a couple of years, but that's about the limit.

 

[DieselMonk]

I have a 12kw water cooled diesel generator backup in my house now and we are very happy with it. The engine is a 1.3l 3cyl. Mitsubishi diesel.
What ever you do never ever use high reving air cooled single cylinder chinese diesels (Hurricane or Kipor). Had a couple of these and I am glad they are gone. There was always something wrong with it when I needed backup power. Parts are hard to get and even harder to find someone to work on it and keep voltage regulators on hand.
I also had a 2 cyl Wisconsin propane generator. Problem with Propane is, that the generator needs a lot of it, so you have to have a proper tank. Not BBQ or camper tanks, those ice up.
For me diesel is the way to go, easier to get as my maschines use a lot of it and I have always some around. But a proper 1800 rpm diesel generator cost a lot of $$$...