need advice on tractor needs

[mjncad]

Steve C:

When I read your resume, it just infuriates me to see America waste good talent because of off-shoring...err...globalization I believe is the PC term for it.

Here's hoping you find a good paying job to match your skills.

 

[IslandTractor]

SteveC makes some excellent points. Tractors seem to be all designed so that every single thing you need to do to them requires the maximum force an average male human being can exert (perhaps I am exaggerating, but it feels that way). If you really dislike mechanical work, it will be a problem, because even the installation and removal of an implement (they are all heavy-even the small ones) requires some knowledge of leverage and often the application of a tool of some kind (in spite of manufacturer claims to the contrary). Plus, there are many things on a tractor that need to be inspected, tightened, lubricated, or otherwise fiddled with on a frequent enough basis that it's not practical to haul it or have it hauled to a dealer for every little thing. However, I must say that in spite of all the work, aggravation, and possible loss of body parts, becoming proficient in using and working on a clattering assemblage of diesel engine, hydraulic systems, and moving parts is a rewarding undertaking. I love it, and would never think of hiring someone to mow or plow, unless it was an emergency. .....I have stayed away from used tractors (though the big one I bought had 50 hours on it as a demonstrator) because I don't know how well they've been maintained, and I figure somebody got rid them for some reason, maybe just to trade up, but maybe not.

When I bought my first tractor, I was a total newbie, though I am a mechanical engineer by training, and have worked on cars and other mechanical things since I was a kid. In spite of that I never knew how much I liked diesel engines and hydraulics until I got a tractor. I say that if you can afford it, and are willing to learn at least rudimentary mechanical skills, go for it! Then you can put on your overalls, go to town, and not feel like an imposter.

Well stated MiseryMule and welcome to TBN!! I find myself a kindred spirit when it comes to the Zen and Art of tractor ownership. Many, probably most, of us on TBN did not grow up as shade tree mechanics and our tractors may well be the first diesel engines we've ever owned. However, the darn things are so reliable and simple to maintain compared to modern automobile engines that we learn step by step to become comfortable doing so. I'd personally never bother to do more than call for an apppointment to investigate a "check engine" light on my road vehicle but I am happy as a clam crawling around under a tractor doing a 50hr service and becoming familiar with the tractor mechanics. It was no big leap from that point to being able, with a dealer's mechanic on a cell phone advising me, to diagnose simple problems (like disconnected electrical leads) and to repair these things. However the main point is that after demystifying modern tractor operation and maintenance one learns that there are relatively few things that are likely to happen that cannot be fixed by a very average guy. No one rebuilds injectors at home but that sort of thing is unusual. Mostly what we do is routine maintenance and that clearly does not require factory training to accomplish.

Tractor operation is also easily demystified even for someone who starts from a background where a riding mower was the largest farm tool they'd previously operated. Yes, 3 point hitches are a bit of a pain but only until you learn to lever things with a 2x4 and whack 'em with a hefty object now and again. No harm done. There is also something very appealing about how open all the mechanical devices on a tractor are...you see the hydraulic hoses and cylinders, you can touch the 3PT and directly manipulate it from your seat, one learns quickly to nudge the tractor forward or use small hand movements to control the loader with far more precision than was possible on the first day. You also learn the limits of power and hopefully do this responsibly so that life, limb and equipment are not endangered. Go slow until you gain confidence and understand the equipment and mechanical, balance and dynamic limits. There is a learning curve but it is a manageable curve so long as one is patient and respectful of the power of these tools. There is also a beauty in having a versatile tool that accepts any number of specialized implements to aid doing work that without the tractor would take days or years of physical labor to accomplish.

Although many on TBN advocate buying a first tractor bigger than what you need, that is not always the best way to start. I think it would be a lot safer and easier to learn on a BX25 than with a full sized TLB especially when you are essentially self teaching. Maybe renting something like that for a week or two would be a good and relatively cheap way to self educate on tractor operation and also to help make a more informed decision regarding what size of tractor is really needed. Like many on TBN I started with a smaller 20hp machine and then found my needs changed and moved up to something about twice that size. I don't consider the 20hp experience a mistake in the slightest though. I learned on that machine and I know very well now that the 20hp tractor was sometimes more efficient than my bigger machine at certain tasks. The common wisdom on TBN of encouraging people to buy "more than you need" is akin to telling everyone to buy a full sized SUV. Some people will in fact need the full size but many would be much better served by something smaller.

Finally, I return to MiseryMule's remark about how tractor ownership has been a "rewarding undertaking". I think that sums things up nicely. It takes some investment of time and energy, not to mention bucks, but if you do your homework properly and proceed with due caution, adding a tractor and its capabilities to life is indeed more rewarding than simply calling up contractors and writing checks.

 

[bill in ny]

Very well said IslandTractor!!

 

[rstipp]

Steve C. was correct. I am not inclined to do mechanical work. I don't know how. Steve C. makes some good points from an economic point of view. But, I am intrigued with "pushing dirt around" and keeping the pasture bush-hogged. Blading the snow off the lane would be interesting also. I am not sure I can handle waiting for the grass to be baled twice a year.

 

[rstipp]

Thanks for all the posts. I am sorry I was out of pocket when most of the comments were made. I found all very interesting. I am a little concerned about the potential for turnover when mowing on hills. What can be done to make it safer?

 

[IslandTractor]

Thanks for all the posts. I am sorry I was out of pocket when most of the comments were made. I found all very interesting. I am a little concerned about the potential for turnover when mowing on hills. What can be done to make it safer?

1) Mow up and down rather than across the hill/terrain.
2) Add weight down low (partially load tires with rimguard, water or methanol (windshield washer fluid) depending on your climate.
3) Widen the track of your tractor...many tractor wheels can be set to a narrow or wide position. It can be done pretty easily but best done by the dealer due to the weight and jacks involved.
4) Go slow and be watchful for and avoid bumps/rocks on the up side of the hill and dips/trenches on the down side.
5) Keep the loader down low.
6) Don't turn up hill if things get dicey, turn down hill.
7) Buy a purpose built slope mower

 

[rstipp]

Thanks, IslandTractor for the tips. What about buying a wider stance tractor?
I am not sure what a "purpose driven slope mower" is?

 

[IslandTractor]

Thanks, IslandTractor for the tips. What about buying a wider stance tractor?
I am not sure what a "purpose driven slope mower" is?

Check out a PowerTrak ?1850 or ?1845 slope mower. Go to the PowerTrak section of TBN and ask them and you will get lots of info.

 

[Steve C]

Steve C. was correct. I am not inclined to do mechanical work. I don't know how. Steve C. makes some good points from an economic point of view. But, I am intrigued with "pushing dirt around" and keeping the pasture bush-hogged. Blading the snow off the lane would be interesting also. I am not sure I can handle waiting for the grass to be baled twice a year.

rstip
I assumed from your budget allocated for the tractor that you must be a pretty successfull person making a good living doing things other than mechanical work. Like other posters have said the newer equipment probably doesn't require much other than wrestling the attachments on and off. It is probably the most difficult part for a new owner if he doesn't have someone show him the "easier" way of handling each piece. Yes pushing dirt and snow around certainly can be a enjoyable past time, you get to see the results of your labor right away, rather than waiting months or years to see the rusults of your work like I did when working as a mechanical designeer. I once spent 2+ years designing the HVAC systems for a Nuclear power plant, and they decided not to build it. We were 90% done with the design!!

When you have a job like that you can really appreciate pushing dirt around, mowing grass and even pounding nails. Immediate job satisfaction!

If you have neighbors with tractors I am pretty sure that you could get some helpfull information from them regarding simple maintenance. Applying proper lubrication in a timely fashion goes a long way towards preventing future problems. It isn't difficult at all but it can get a bit messy, but that iw whay they invented shop rags!

I didn't mean to try to convince you to not buy a tractor, just beware of what you are getting into.

A good friend of mine is the most hessitent person I know when it comes to buying and trying new things. He will agonize over it for months and sometimes years. I have to keep reminding him that he isn't married to the equipment/motorcycle/trailer or whatever....just buy it and if you don't like it just sell it...not a big deal! (he researches all his purchases a great deal, after trying it he usually loves it and wants to keep it forever) On new equipment you might get beat up a little on depreciation but it isn't the end of the world, it just frees up your finances to try something else if it doesn't work out.

I must admit that I love pushing snow around in November and December here in North Central Michigan....some years though it looses some of the fun 4 or 5 months later and I find myself asking myself if I am really having fun at 15 below zero and the wind howling accross the open field. I have even resorted to wearing my snowmobile helmet under those conditions just to keep my head warm. On those days it looses some of its entertainment value.

Cheers

ps
Picture of snowmobile was taken on March 22 at the end of a 110 mile ride through the woods...winter does sometimes hang on a little to long up here...

 

[Steve C]

Steve C. was correct. I am not inclined to do mechanical work. I don't know how. Steve C. makes some good points from an economic point of view. But, I am intrigued with "pushing dirt around" and keeping the pasture bush-hogged. Blading the snow off the lane would be interesting also. I am not sure I can handle waiting for the grass to be baled twice a year.

If you had purchased Dow Chemical stock on september 10th @ 22.60, as of today in only 4 days you would have alread recieved an 11.9% ROI. It traded at 25.29 in after market trading today, plus you will get the dividend if you hold it untill the end of september, about $166 and the increased value of the stock would have been $2975 for a total of $3141......

 

[Steve C]

Please let us know how to get a 10% ROI average without being part of an early Ponzi scheme. I agree that paying for services is an option for the OP but would imagine he will need a much greater "nest egg" to pay for such services. I agree with your estimate of $2500/yr for mowing, snow removal and some occasional brush clean up/tree work but I haven't seen such optimistic figures for ROI since Bernie Madoff was thrown in the slammer.

Investing 25K in a new or slightly used tractor and implements would likely be the best way to get a 10% ROI for someone in the OP's position.

If you had purchased 25k worth of Dow Chemical stock on september 10th @ 22.60, as of today in only 4 days you would have alread recieved an 11.9% ROI. It traded at 25.29 in after market trading today, plus you will get the dividend if you hold it untill the end of september, about $166 and the increased value of the stock would have been $2975 for a total of $3141

It is very probably that the anual ROI on this particular stock will be a little more than the 10% since it has exceeded that amount in only 4 days




__________________

 

[Papasmith]

Steve C. was correct. I am not inclined to do mechanical work. I don't know how. Steve C. makes some good points from an economic point of view. But, I am intrigued with "pushing dirt around" and keeping the pasture bush-hogged. Blading the snow off the lane would be interesting also. I am not sure I can handle waiting for the grass to be baled twice a year.

You might want to think about being patient and hiring out the tractor work out for a year and, in the meantime, look around to become really familiar with what tractors are out there and what you can and will do with them. Study the maintenance issues and see how well they mesh with your inclinations and skills. You might find that you will feel comfortable with a good used tractor. I mean after-all, there are a lot of good, low hour tractors out there at significant savings over new.

Think about this. A good tractor should run at least three if not four or five thousand hours if properly maintained. I have seen some larger tractors with as many as 10,000 hours. More than likely, you will not be using your tractor maybe, 50 to 75 hours a year if that much for your 18 acres. With that said, I would look at buying a good used tractor in the 25 to 40hp range. With the money saved you can buy some equipment and a good used commercial mower which are great on hills.

By way of example, let me describe the set up for my 101 acres which I just maintain.

2002 4500 Mahindra 2WD. Has 42hp though some claim it is 45hp. Bought 5 years ago with 180 hours for 12,000 with FEL and 7 foot bush hog. Now has 360 hours which equals 36 hours per year. I know a lot of people push the 4WD but, the 2WD's have been used for a hundred years and they have done the job just fine. I am completely happy with mine.
Commercial Mowers - Presently a Ferris IS3000 because of the suspension. Bought with 396 hours for $3800.00. Number of hours in three years the two commercial mowers I have owned, 160 or 53 hours a year. This includes mowing some fields with this mower in early spring and mowing around fields and barns the rest of the year. Expected life span of a commercial mower is at least 2000 hours if maintained at all. I have seen or heard of some with more than 3500 hours that were well maintained.

Total amount of work done on the above other than normal maintenance - Rebuilt starter on Mahindra.

Other equipment includes Tiller, Scrape Blade and Box Scrape. Total Cost - $1550.00.

Total cost of equipment above - $17350.00.

Whatever way you go, good luck

Dave in NC

 

[IslandTractor]

If you had purchased 25k worth of Dow Chemical stock on september 10th @ 22.60, as of today in only 4 days you would have alread recieved an 11.9% ROI. It traded at 25.29 in after market trading today, plus you will get the dividend if you hold it untill the end of september, about $166 and the increased value of the stock would have been $2975 for a total of $3141

It is very probably that the anual ROI on this particular stock will be a little more than the 10% since it has exceeded that amount in only 4 days




__________________

Just as soon as I withdraw all my funds from my Madoff account I will be sure to put it all into Dow and then use the returns to pay someone else to have all my tractor fun for me.

 

[Steve C]

Just as soon as I withdraw all my funds from my Madoff account I will be sure to put it all into Dow and then use the returns to pay someone else to have all my tractor fun for me.

me thinks you will have to find someone who works for free for that plan to work.

I am afraid that you will just have to continue having your tractor fun yourself.

Having fun is a tough job but someone has to do it!

This my latest tractor fun project.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ar-blade-box-blade-project-2.html#post1757873

I think my $200 box blade has paid for itself with this one little job.

 

[Steve C]

You might want to think about being patient and hiring out the tractor work out for a year and, in the meantime, look around to become really familiar with what tractors are out there and what you can and will do with them. Study the maintenance issues and see how well they mesh with your inclinations and skills. You might find that you will feel comfortable with a good used tractor. I mean after-all, there are a lot of good, low hour tractors out there at significant savings over new.

Think about this. A good tractor should run at least three if not four or five thousand hours if properly maintained. I have seen some larger tractors with as many as 10,000 hours. More than likely, you will not be using your tractor maybe, 50 to 75 hours a year if that much for your 18 acres. With that said, I would look at buying a good used tractor in the 25 to 40hp range. With the money saved you can buy some equipment and a good used commercial mower which are great on hills.

By way of example, let me describe the set up for my 101 acres which I just maintain.

2002 4500 Mahindra 2WD. Has 42hp though some claim it is 45hp. Bought 5 years ago with 180 hours for 12,000 with FEL and 7 foot bush hog. Now has 360 hours which equals 36 hours per year. I know a lot of people push the 4WD but, the 2WD's have been used for a hundred years and they have done the job just fine. I am completely happy with mine.
Commercial Mowers - Presently a Ferris IS3000 because of the suspension. Bought with 396 hours for $3800.00. Number of hours in three years the two commercial mowers I have owned, 160 or 53 hours a year. This includes mowing some fields with this mower in early spring and mowing around fields and barns the rest of the year. Expected life span of a commercial mower is at least 2000 hours if maintained at all. I have seen or heard of some with more than 3500 hours that were well maintained.

Total amount of work done on the above other than normal maintenance - Rebuilt starter on Mahindra.

Other equipment includes Tiller, Scrape Blade and Box Scrape. Total Cost - $1550.00.

Total cost of equipment above - $17350.00.

Whatever way you go, good luck

Dave in NC

Good advice Dave, a lot of quality equipment for about half of what it would cost new. I would like to move up to something like that some day. I started at the very bottom of the barrel when it comes to tractors, but so far I have been pleased with the results. Although I expect to have to work on it some day.

2005 Farm Pro 2524 4wd. The tractor had 47 hours on
it when I bought it, it now has 80 hours on it. Tractor
came with 5 foot brush hog, cultivator, 7 foot back blade and
1500 lb lawn roller....................$4000 (used)
6 foot Dark Horse tiller................$300 (used)
30 inch King cutter dirt scoop.......$100 (used)
Dark Horse middle buster plow........$50 (new)
Dark Horse chisel plow..................$50 (new)
Dark Horse 5 foot box blade..........$200 (new)

Total.......................................$4700

I wouldn't recomend this to someone who doesn't want to
work on stuff though, but it works for me.

 

[taborekle]

Critical Parameters:
spend up to $20k to $25k.
"I am not inclined to do any mechanical work on equipment" - means new or darn near
6 ft. bush hog - forces about 30+HP tractor, plus $1,000?
front end loader
box blade - about $500 plus
tiller - $2,500

To get all this new (basic Kubota B7800/B3200) would be about $20K. For snow - if you want a front mounted snowblower add another $2K to 3K.

For Kioti or Bobcat probably less.

Whoops - forgot - add about $25 for the first fill up

Perhaps you're prices are less, or you were dealt a better deal, but a more realistic appraisal of this is about $25K. Snow blowers about right.

Just don't want the OP to have a un-realistic idea of what he can get.

My B2920 + 48in bushhog + 5 foot blade + 48in tiller + FEL + Tax was $22K.

Larry

 

[rstipp]

You might want to think about being patient and hiring out the tractor work out for a year and, in the meantime, look around to become really familiar with what tractors are out there and what you can and will do with them. Study the maintenance issues and see how well they mesh with your inclinations and skills. You might find that you will feel comfortable with a good used tractor. I mean after-all, there are a lot of good, low hour tractors out there at significant savings over new.

Think about this. A good tractor should run at least three if not four or five thousand hours if properly maintained. I have seen some larger tractors with as many as 10,000 hours. More than likely, you will not be using your tractor maybe, 50 to 75 hours a year if that much for your 18 acres. With that said, I would look at buying a good used tractor in the 25 to 40hp range. With the money saved you can buy some equipment and a good used commercial mower which are great on hills.

By way of example, let me describe the set up for my 101 acres which I just maintain.

2002 4500 Mahindra 2WD. Has 42hp though some claim it is 45hp. Bought 5 years ago with 180 hours for 12,000 with FEL and 7 foot bush hog. Now has 360 hours which equals 36 hours per year. I know a lot of people push the 4WD but, the 2WD's have been used for a hundred years and they have done the job just fine. I am completely happy with mine.
Commercial Mowers - Presently a Ferris IS3000 because of the suspension. Bought with 396 hours for $3800.00. Number of hours in three years the two commercial mowers I have owned, 160 or 53 hours a year. This includes mowing some fields with this mower in early spring and mowing around fields and barns the rest of the year. Expected life span of a commercial mower is at least 2000 hours if maintained at all. I have seen or heard of some with more than 3500 hours that were well maintained.

Total amount of work done on the above other than normal maintenance - Rebuilt starter on Mahindra.

Other equipment includes Tiller, Scrape Blade and Box Scrape. Total Cost - $1550.00.

Total cost of equipment above - $17350.00.

Whatever way you go, good luck

Dave in NC

I had thought a little about a commercial mower (zero radius) as an option. This might actually do the mowing quicker than a tractor/bush hog set-up-you think?
I have a flat bed trailer I pull with a bumper hitch. I would like to pull that around the farm and pick up limbs, etc. Could I set-up the tractor to do that?
Thanks, PapaSmith, for the thoughts.

 

[Steve C]

I had thought a little about a commercial mower (zero radius) as an option. This might actually do the mowing quicker than a tractor/bush hog set-up-you think?
I have a flat bed trailer I pull with a bumper hitch. I would like to pull that around the farm and pick up limbs, etc. Could I set-up the tractor to do that?
Thanks, PapaSmith, for the thoughts.

I have one of these, 60 inch Zero turn. It is by far much faster that anything else I have tried for mowing. These things can be a little hair raising on steep hills however. One of my properties has a house on top of a hill with a walk out basement on one side. The lawn slopes down very sharply on that side of the house, and about 1 acre of the 5 acre parcel has a slope of around 10 degrees. My basement floor is about 6 foot above the center of the road. The nature of the zero turns is they will "crab walk" if you try to mow side hill. It can be done but it isn't a lot of fun since they require constant steering correction to go in a straight line. They are much better going up hill. Down hill is O.K. but they tend to gather speed quickly and the steering gets a little vauge as the weight transfers off the drive wheels to the front casters. Mine isn't as fast as a true comercial mower, but the 26hp motor seems to be a good match for the 60" deck. My local farm supply store has one of these on clearance for $3400. If I didn't already have one I would buy it in a heartbeat. A lot of mower for the money. Nothing fancy but heavy gauge metal all around.

It also has a bumper that you can mount a hitch to to pull a trailer. It has very good traction because most of the weight is over the drive wheels and the dual hydrostatic drives gives it a great amount of power for pulling a heavy load.

Swisher Max Z ZT2660B zero-turn mower Review: Powered by ConsumerGuide and HowStuffWorks

 

[rstipp]

Interesting thought about pulling the trailer with the mower. I will research that further.
Thanks

 

[Steve C]

Interesting thought about pulling the trailer with the mower. I will research that further.
Thanks

I forgot to answer your origional question about the tractor pulling a trailer, yes, most of them have a drawbar that you can attach the hitch ball to. The delux way is to mount the hitch on the 3 point so you don't even have to lift the trailer to connect it, just back under the trailer and raise the hitch.