Need a new Trailer

[ahlkey]

I just purchased a compact tractor (45 HP) with loader, cab, and rear tire fluid. Actual width is 54 inches but can be adjusted to 62 inches. Overall length is 13.5 ft in length. Tractor weighs 2,900 lbs, loader probably 1,650, cab - est- 1,000, tire fluid 650 lbs so overall I total it up at 6,200 lbs.

I have been looking at 18 ft trailers with two feet beaver tails. These models have a GVWR weight of 7,000 lbs. When I deduct the weight of the trailer to get a load capacity I am anywhere from 5,500 lbs to 5,800 lbs. My truck is a 1500 Chevy Avalanche with a trailer loading capacity of 7,900 lbs.

Given this weight can I add back some of the load capacity of the trailer given the truck will carry part of the load? I was told that this is normal and then you can gain back as much as 20% capacity? As anyone heard of this calculation and do you feel this trailer size is right for me or should I consider a larger GVWR?

I am new to this forum but would appreciate any advise. Thanks

 

[Beavis]

My thoughts:

1: Yes, I have heard that you can get some of the payload capability back by subtracting the tounge weight (10%-20%).

2: I just sold an 18ft. trailer with twin 3,500lb axles because I felt it was too light weight for my equipment and my tractor is SMALLER than yours. My tractor and loader weight is 3,550lbs and the empty trailer weight was 1,700lbs which totals 5,550lbs. When I'd add a piece of equipment to the 3pt. (box blade, rear blade, bush hog, etc.) I'd be adding another 500lbs +/- which still only brought me to the 6,000lb range but I felt like the trailer was overloaded. I am currently awaiting the arrival of a new 22ft. PJ trailer with twin 7,000lb axles and fold up ramps.

3: I would recommend at least twin 5,000lb axles and a 20ft (18ft flat plus 2ft dove tail) trailer.

 

[George2615]

The 7K trailer you are looking at presumably weighs between 12-1500lb based on your figures. Assume the trailer weighs 1500. That leaves you with a load capacity on the trailer of 5500 and no more to be legal. At 6200 lb plus say 1500 for the trailer you would be 700 over the trailer rating. Your truck can haul up to 7900 so its a good match. Just because your truck can haul up to 7900 does not mean you can overload the trailer. You could probably get away with it but why take the chance. If you get pulled into a weigh station with that load you'd probably get a fine. For safety sake I'd look at a 9 or 10K trailer which would give you that extra margin of safety. A 6200 lb load plus up to 1700 trailer weight puts your truck at your 7900 limit.

 

[Diamondpilot]

The problem with going to a heavier GVWR trailer is that it will be illegal to pull with your truck. In my state and many others it is illegal to pull a trailer with more GVWR than your trucks tow rating, even if it is empty. Now that being said you have 2 options. 1 buy a bigger truck, probably not in the budget. 2 get the heavier trailer had hope you don't get stopped and if so just play dumb. I don't feel the 7,000# trailer will do what you need it to do safely and you will be pushing it to its limits which makes it more unsafe in my eyes than pulling the heaver trailer than you truck can handle.

Chris

 

[KAB]

No.

I had a friend try this to just have some axle issues. (he might have been a bit heavier but is it worth breaking down?)

Get a trailer in the 10,000# rating range. If you want to save some weight look at aluminum. Also, make sure you invest in a weight distributing hitch and remember that a manufactures towing capacity is based on the vehicles weight when it leaves the factory assuming full of fluids and a 150# driver. Anything you add from there starts to deduct from the rated tow capacity.

Kurt

 

[ahlkey]

Thanks for all the feedback. My only issue is that my truck is a 1500 4WD Avalanche with a combination pulling weight of 14,000 LBS (7,900 trailer load maximum). Likewise, getting a different truck at this point is not an option. So even if I get a 10,000 GVWR light version trailer and it weighs only 1500 lbs and my load is 6,200 lbs I am near the combined 14,000 lb limit. You can see my problem. In addition, depending on the 150 person total and whatever I put in the truck bed I am pushing that combined total further.

I also found it interesting to read KAB about the distribution hitch. I do have a nice distribution hitch that I used for a 28ft RV I sold a couple of years ago. I haven't used it since but how much more will this help if I use this hitch? Has anyone seen a trailer rated at 8,000 GVWR? I could also consider going to a smaller trailer type (skidster version) since the lengh of the tractor is under 13.5ft? However, I really wanted a longer trailer for other uses as well.

Appreciate all the feedback.

I hope this all makes sense. Thoughts?

 

[Diamondpilot]

If you can not get a bigger truck the longer trailer will be your only saving grace. You will need the length to get the tractor positioned where as not to have too much weight on the rear end. My experience with the Avalanche is limited but I do have a couple friends who own them and from what I see it should do the job for you with the right trailer even if you are over weight a bit. The biggest issue you will have is not overloading the rear suspension on your truck. I believe the ride on the Avalanche is tuned for a softer ride than lets say a standard truck so it may not take much to make it squat.

Chris

 

[powerstroke444e]

I have read so many of these forums that worry more about 'legal' more than safe hauling.
If giving a reccomendation I would look at a trailer with 6K+ axles & about 18-22' with tilt deck. Go with 8K plates (which in IL you can pick the plate) have brakes on both axles & you will not worry about the trailer as it will handle like a dream & stop good the only thing you will not do any mountains with it but on flat land it will handle like a truck that is loaded to the max not sports car. Use lots of chain & binders & common cense.
The last thing I would want is to be over-loaded on the trailer & truck. Max the truck out & leave as much margin as you can on the trailer. & yes I have the tickets to prove that safety is more important than matching door stickers to plates, but no accidents or overload failures do overloading.
Go for the bigger trailer & don't let the fear of a theoretical ticket prevent you from doing it safely.

 

[KAB]

Ahlkey,

All "1/2 ton" trucks recommend using a weight distributing hitch when toing in excess of 5000#. This is to help remove some of the weight from the rear axle of the towing vehicle to the front axle of the towing vehicle and the trailer axles.

As for trailer lenght, make sure you have enough room to move the tractor around on it to help make sure you have the correct tongue weight.

How much hauling of the tractor do you plan on doing? If you will only be hauling the tractor a few times, then I probably would not worry about being over weight. (I still would not recommend it to somebody else). If you will be doing this on a regular basis you should really look at all options outside of being overloaded. It only takes 1 accident to make the savings of a few dollars make you wish you spent the extra money up front.

Kurt

 

[gordon21]

As KAB asked, how much towing will your do? Couple times a year? Interstates, suburban driving or long hills out in the country?

Although no one here will admit to blessing an overweight rig, life if full of compromises and hard decisions.

If, and this is a big IF, you were towing in daylight only at speeds no more than 50MPH on mostly flat dry deserted roads with no chance of running the right wheels into a deep ditch, an empty pickup, good tires on both truck and trailer, a brake controller and a properly tied down and balanced load, you would probably be OK up to 800# over the rated weight.

Add ANY one of these into the equation and things can get really bad really quick:
65MPH+
bad tires
narrow/steep roads
nighttime
no brake controller
rain/snow/wet roads
unbalanced trailer

If you do ignore some of the advice given here on TBN, PLEASE do at least one thing. Get a brake controller. A trailer that is working WITH you is half the battle. No trailer brakes and you will become a runaway rig. Not if, but just a matter of when. Old tires, wet roads, slight hill and trouble will find you at speeds as low as 20 MPH without trailer brakes.

 

[ampsucker]

fwiw, no one seems to really mention that unless you go aluminum, you'll be hard pressed to find a trailer with anywhere close to the rated capacity that weighs less than 2,000 lbs dry/empty. i just bought a 20 ft car-hauler with no rails or anything, just two 3500 lb axles and a spare tire and ramps, and it weighs 2400 lbs empty. it is a well built trailer but they simply could not trim any more weight and still maintain the carrying capacity.

be sure to weigh your rig in various configurations including the fully loaded truck and trailer to make sure you are under all your weight limits. local quarrys are a great place to get your weight for free with no DOT involvement.

also, don't forget the weakest link in the chain determines you hauling capacity. on a stock truck, this is often the 5,000 lbs rated receiver hitch or the 3500 lb hitch ball. check EVERYTHING and don't trust the dealer who sold it to you and TOLD you it was all rated for the max the truck COULD theoretically haul. he won't be around when the accident happens. hopefully, neither will you!

seriously, check everything. do the math if using a drop down hitch. check the ball, check the safety chains, check the hitch rating on the trailer, etc.

 

[ahlkey]

Thanks again for all the good advice. I willing be traveling about 350 miles round trip at least 5-6 times a year on mostly interstate highways that are flat. It may be possible that the loader weighs less or that the tire fluid is not as heavy as the estimates that have been given me. The cab is really small and the dealer indicated it weighs 1,000 lbs? Therefore, before doing anything I will take the tractor over to the local "iron works" scale here and give it a good measure. Perhaps if I am lucky it will come much lighter. I do agree AMPS that the problem is also the overall 14,000 combination limit and the trailers are over 2,000 lbs minimum.

I absolutely do not want to take any risks and will definitely error on the side of safety. Thanks for all the good advice.

Stay tuned.

 

[ahlkey]

I was able weigh the tractor and it appears the weight of the loader & cab was estimated wrong by the dealer. The total weight is 5,600 lbs which is 600 lbs less. However, given everyone's comments it would be foolish to try the GVWR 7,000 trailer since when you add back the weight of the trailer I would be over or right at the payload limit. Likewise, I will likely want to add more equipment at some point. Therefore, I will take the sound advice and get a 10,000 or even 12,000 GVWR trailer, use my distribution hitch, go for a 22, 20' or 18' model, get brakes on both axles (brake controller as well), and lots of chains & binders.

The weight of these trailers that I have looked at range from 2,000 to 2400 lbs which means I should be below or slightly above my 7,900 lb car towing level. However, as was pointed out it is better to have the trailer not be overloaded. I am sure the trailer and the tractor will out live my truck so in the long run I should be set.

Any additional advice would be greatly appreciated as this forum has definitely saved me from going the wrong direction. Thanks again

 

[Diamondpilot]

Buy all the trailer you can afford so you will not have to do this again.

Chris