My (hopefully) Modern Shop Build

[woodlandfarms]

So this is a journye of me trying to build a shop. Warts and all. As of this page I am just breaking ground and have not formally decided on my building. I am close, but not 100% there as over this weekend I was surprised by a couple of issue.

So where to begin.... I guess.... the beginning.

We bought 40 acres with a manufactured home and 30x30 carport. A carport put up next to the manufactured home in such a way that if you covered any of the walls you would block half the view. It is a mystery, well it isn't, the previous owner was high on meth, but the property does not have a work space. The carport is just a rock floor..

Our grand plan is that in two years we will break ground on the new house. It is a modern affair, lots of glass. Our intent was to put the shop up after, but recently I inherited two semi pro wood shops that need more protection than my carport can provide.

So we have been busy trying to put together a plan for a shop that met some practical use but also had a modern flair. The bonus is that the cart is in front of the horse financially. I had dreams of a nice 60 X 100 workspace, but that will not happen. As with most things, I need to compromise.

We wanted something modern. so we came up with a ton of different, and in my eyes, reasonably attainable ideas. In sending them out, we were met with utter contempt. Quonset huts, which I have been told are the cheapest buildings to put up became an absolute nightmare to make anything but round hoops. Try and change the pitch of a roof and the whole world came crashing down. It is bizarre that when you stop making a boring square box the people involved in the building trades either shut down completely or start demanding outrageous sums of money...

anyway... After a year of trying everything I could to come up with more than a square box, I ended with a quasi modern structure. Its a square box, but a single slope roof. You have no idea how hard it was to get people to come around to this in my area. The excuses where incredibly diverse. In the end I found one company that was willing to work within the scope of the concept as well as budget. Oddly, once I had one company onboard I suddenly had all of them onboard.

OH, so here is a side story. I have 40 acres, 10 buildable. I picked a spot I loved, it had a view, it was cool, the building would be impressive but not overbearing. Got ready to break ground and my dirt guys said hey 鉄can before you dig SO I called the county out?

Water, no issue, Electic, no issue, Gas, No issue. Phone. WELL Guess what, there is a major trunkline powering the phone system for the entire hill and it runs smack through my build site.


So not to show you tons of things,, this was the drawings I sent out for quotes.

View attachment CARLS SHOP MAR 30 18cc.pdf

One design note is the loft. Bay one is entirely closed in. The bottom floor being my wood working shop, the top floor being divided into two, sewing room for the wife and office space for me.

 

[woodlandfarms]

I sent the quote out to 5 companies, 2 Red Steel building, 2 Pole barn companies, and 1 Lightweight Steel (Cold Rolled). The Cold Rolled was a suggestion from a Los Angeles architect friend.

View attachment QUOTE BREAKDOWN.pdf

I tired to keep the quotes apples to apples, some place provided soup to nuts, some where ala cart. I made this chart for me, but the first row across from the vendors name is what things cost rom the quote. The second row was the hard costs for all the items I needed. Two things became apparent in my bidding. Labor is higher for a pole barn, especially a big one. Red steel goes up quicker. Second, concrete became a deciding factor.

So three big things came out of all of this.

Pole Barns, are not as cheap as I would have thought at this size. And the two pole barn manufactures lost out because the height I needed for a single slope design they could not accommodate. I guess the building systems used here in WA the poles are limited on height and with the front face being so high, it proved an issue.

Red Metal buildings vary wildly. The first red metal building is a national discounter, someone who deals in used buildings as well as new. The second is a very reputable dealer in the PNW. They had better siding to offer but the cost was super prohibitive.

Concrete is a deal breaker. In the end the bid came down to the discount supplier and a cold rolled company. The cold rolled companies building techniques allow the building to be built on piers. Pouring a monolith for a red steel building is well over $8 a sq ft. I am getting the pole barn quotes between 4 and 5.

 

[woodlandfarms]

So as of this writing I have found a surprise. I was about to pull the trigger on the cold roled building and I asked to see detail drawings. They are not anywhere near what I laid out to begin with. Doors are in odd positions, windows are incorrect. I will speak with the building provider tomorrow but this could be a deal breaker.

 

[ultrarunner]

Subscribed...

Last weekend I was in Olympia meeting with contractors.

Still in sticker shock and timeline is pushed way out for all of them.

This is for replacing 1200 square feet of deck and consistently 65 to 80k range from those that bid... most said too busy and that was that.

I've built garages, additions, gutting homes to the studs, excavated basements, set concrete retaining walls, etc... so I have a little experience... distance is the real problem in that the project is in WA and I am in California.

Those that have kept costs to a bare bones minimum and not doing the work themselves find a advertised plan from an area builder and go without making any changes because the changes/deviation add up fast.

 

[RNeumann]

Low bid is low bid......looks like the low bid is a “standard” steel building where the windows and doors were shifted to fall between the structure.

If the budget is tight you can either go smaller but custom or adjust your design to work with the standard layout.

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm looking forward to following your progress. As a builder, I can understand the reluctance of contractors in your area to take on your project. Doing something out of the ordinary requires time to learn how to do it, which means trial and error, and mistakes. When somebody asks me to do something that I've never done before, I hesitate, and then either walk away, or bid it at a point where I hope that I don't lose money. After doing that a few times, I've learned that walking away from those jobs was the smarter choice.

Why not build a standard metal or pole barn building and then finish off the exterior in something that gives you the look that you want? You'll never see your single pitch roof, and that's probably where all of your issues are coming from.

 

[ovrszd]

Looking forward to the end result.

 

[vvanders]

Subscribed...

Last weekend I was in Olympia meeting with contractors.

Still in sticker shock and timeline is pushed way out for all of them.

This is for replacing 1200 square feet of deck and consistently 65 to 80k range from those that bid... most said too busy and that was that.

I've built garages, additions, gutting homes to the studs, excavated basements, set concrete retaining walls, etc... so I have a little experience... distance is the real problem in that the project is in WA and I am in California.

Those that have kept costs to a bare bones minimum and not doing the work themselves find a advertised plan from an area builder and go without making any changes because the changes/deviation add up fast.

Uf da. We're wrapping up our ~1600sqft house up in the NW part of the state for just about twice that. Everything I've heard from builders across the state(NW and SW) is that everyone is super busy right now.

OP, totally understand your desire to go modern however you may just have to compromise on it for the shop. It's pretty easy to have changes in plans trigger zoning/code/other things that quickly make a job not worth it for the contractor. At the end of the day they have to have confidence they can complete the job on time/at cost.

We've only done small buildings down here(28x12) so don't have any insight on builders with the sizes your looking at.

 

[jfh28]

they had to move the doors and windows due to the bracing requirements of the framing system......if you look you will see that the items were moved out of the bays with X bracing which can not be eliminated from your frame system......at the one end girt they used angled braces in lieu of x bracing due to the amount of windows you requested......but I bet they were not happy about doing that.....once you are dealing with pre-engineered framing systems like this there is only so much flexibility.......personally I think you are probably paying a premium for doing the shed roof style and should examine you reasons for wanting that if cost is a driving factor........Jack

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

A shed roof is the cheapest and easiest to build, and has a modern look. But you almost never see it "standard." If you go with a high-volume company, you may have to decide between "cheap" and "what you want." Alternative is to find a local carpenter who can build to your design. Could be risky and will likely take a lot longer. I'm going through the same thing right now regarding a barn and garage.

As far as the HOUSE, modular home builders are coming up with some very interesting designs, and the prices are far less than standard construction (*modular* does not mean a trailer, which is a *manufactured* home). These are regular homes that are built in sections in the factory, then trucked to your land and installed on a foundation). Take a look:

Modular Homes - Home Plan Search Results

This company is located in the Southeast but check out (West Coast) Piece Homes:

pieceHomes: modular modern homes by Davis Studio Architecture + Design, design architect for Grow Community

I've been quoted some great psf prices on these designs.

 

[bigtiller]

A home assembled in a factory, set on wheels and pulled to your lot by a truck. Where would anyone get the idea to call that a trailer house? :confused3:

I remember people arguing about this many years ago. A lot of people have them today so they must be pretty good homes.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Subscribed...

Last weekend I was in Olympia meeting with contractors.

Still in sticker shock and timeline is pushed way out for all of them.

This is for replacing 1200 square feet of deck and consistently 65 to 80k range from those that bid... most said too busy and that was that.

I've built garages, additions, gutting homes to the studs, excavated basements, set concrete retaining walls, etc... so I have a little experience... distance is the real problem in that the project is in WA and I am in California.

Those that have kept costs to a bare bones minimum and not doing the work themselves find a advertised plan from an area builder and go without making any changes because the changes/deviation add up fast.

Carl, as you are finding out contractors up here are maxed out on work. One big problem that introduces delays is that subcontractors are short on help and are worse that the generals on time lines. It is all a big crap shoot for the general contractors to establish a time they can live with. This is also creating a quality problem as everyone is taking short cuts and the workers they can get have marginal qualifications. AHJ's inspectors are also so loaded they sign off w/o really looking at it; especially for contractor's they know.

The minute the word "custom" gets into the scenario the price goes up and interest goes down. Contractors are picking and choosing. Contractors know that owners wanting something outside their pre-concieved box tend to be picky and bird doggers, especially once they percieve they are not a construction novice. Sub division work is really ooming and they are cookie cutter jobs they build over and over. Start modifying a standard design and the same thing happens.

If I was 10 years younger I would solicet you to be your PM, sorry I am enjoying reirement. As you are not on site; I recommend you hire someone to represent you interest. Once it is covered it is too late to complain. The architect is the last guy you want to do that. I consider it to be a conflict of interest problem, especially if they pick the builders and subs.

Ron

 

[vvanders]

Yup, you're dead on the mark. We're wrapping up the tail end of our house build and *every* single subcontractor was 2-4 weeks over/behind. Took what was supposed to be a ~4-6mo build into 12mo.

Haven't seen that much of an issue with permitting up in NW WA. Our framer was good but inspector was more than happy to fail the plumbing(2x), underfloor and footings(2x). So they may be trying to work fast but county is keeping them honest.

 

[woodlandfarms]

So to complicate matters I am in the midst of a movie in Toronto so at the moment I am managing from afar. My one neighbor, who is doing my ground work, has GC'd a number of government buldings. My other neighbor is one of the well known steel building erectors in the area.

So to all, I do get that it is easier to bid something you have done as opposed to something you have not done. Eddie, you are absolutely right and I came very close to just building a more conventional structure. And in the end you are going to be right, the lines of the building will be harder to see. Siding will be critical to the modern motif. I saw this the othr day, it was really an interesting idea for siding. But this quote is now at the price of normal pitched buildings.



But taht would be for down the road, not for the immediate.

Thanks for the notes on structure issues. I can live with some of the adjustments that have been made on the plan but there are a couple of deal breakers I need to work with the building supplier on. The one big flag for me right now is that my plan was to put this on posts like a pole barn foundation. But as there are two sets of posts only 2 feet apart I am wondering if the foundation design will allow for posts. It feels like the red steel might come back into favor.

Yeah, there is a lot of construction going on. The story I get is that the downturn chased a lot of people out of the building trades, and there just is not a lot of qualified labor. On top of it, the current regime has curbed a lot of labor from coming across the border.

Well, crazy day today, showing the crew all of our locations... long brutal days this week.

 

[ustmd]

Woodlandfarms,


I looking forward to following your progress and I like your aesthetic.

I don't know if you follow Frank Howard on YouTube (architect and woodworker)

Here is a video of him building his shop (very similar to your design):

Building The Woodshop - YouTube

 

[flusher]

A home assembled in a factory, set on wheels and pulled to your lot by a truck. Where would anyone get the idea to call that a trailer house? :confused3:

I remember people arguing about this many years ago. A lot of people have them today so they must be pretty good homes.

Here's my manufactured home. 1800 sq ft, 3BR, 2BA on a permanent foundation. Installed in 2005 on my 10 acre ranch.

 

[ovrszd]

A home assembled in a factory, set on wheels and pulled to your lot by a truck. Where would anyone get the idea to call that a trailer house? :confused3:

I remember people arguing about this many years ago. A lot of people have them today so they must be pretty good homes.

I've lived in a Wausau (modular) house for 40 years. It's an excellent house. Very effective design. Very efficient structure.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Well, hit a roadblock today. got my plans for the shop and the concrete post requirements are a bit steep. One document said 12feet deep, the other 6 feet. I have an amazingly strong post hold digger so 6 foot is not an issue.. 12 is. My hope was that I don't have to put down concrete right away as it will cost me far too much...

I just got this from the building supplier.. Now he is saying 6 foot


Piers:

Sidewall Foundation Estimate

6' - 4" deep pier with diameter of 2' - 0". (2)-#4 reinforcing required, with the following additional
requirements: IN ADDITION TO ONE LAYER (HOOP) OF 6 X 6-W1.4 X W1.4 WIRE MESH

Endwall Foundation Estimate

5' - 0" deep pier with diameter of 2' - 0". (1)-#4 reinforcing required, with the following additional
requirements: IN ADDITION TO ONE LAYER (HOOP) OF 6 X 6-W1.4 X W1.4 WIRE MESH

Slab/Footing

Sidewall Foundation Estimate

4" slab with 1' - 8" deep and 1' - 6" wide thickened edge, with (1)-#4 reinforcing at the top of the
slab edge, and (1)-#4 reinforcing at the bottom of the slab edge

Endwall Foundation Estimate

4" slab with 1' - 6" deep and 1' - 0" wide thickened edge, with (1)-#4 reinforcing at the top of the
slab edge, and (1)-#4 reinforcing at the bottom of the slab edge


So what are people seeing as concrete costs? Up here it has been all over the place. The best price was 4 a square foot for a pole barn slab and 7 for a monolith pour. Thoughts?

 

[TedReese]

Have you looked at Web Steel, out of Sandy, OR?

Web Steel Buildings

They have a rigid frame, shed roof, in their portfolio.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Well this project has taken a heck of a turn. Not sure where to start. My neighbor came up to break ground on my shop, Got a half dozen trees pulled and then has been working steady 7 days a week for the past 3 weeks. So ground breaking is at a dead stop. On top of this my concrete guy called, he has another huge job and cannot fit me in until next year. I have found another but these guys are all slammed. Crazy busy.

On top of this, I am having HUGE building dilemas. So the guy I was going to buy the steel building from made a couple of mistakes in the design. When I caught them, I was given a new quote and the price went up.. a big up. This happened last week. I contacted another supplier of the building and he is now scrambling for the gig. He knows what he is doing and is working up a quote.

But, and here is where it gets really messed up. My neighbor who builds these huge buildings called me on Friday "How would you like a 80X120 building for half the price of your 45X68?" I am like WTF. He says he knows a guy who ordered an 80X120X20 high for a grow operation and they did not get their grow certificate. now the investors want to dissolve the deal and they are selling off asets. One of the assets was this building. Just delivered, sitting on pallets. Now while I woul LOVE LOVE LOVE an 80X120 I cannot afford the concrete. But my neighbor says, "You can split the building in half and sell one half to someone else" My other neighbor has been looking for an 80X60 so he is totally in on buying it. We have no idea the design, all of this is going to come in the next 48 hours. For all I know the building may have been sold. and I will be back to square one....