MX5200 Engine Problem

[varmint]

Sure- dismount, open hood, find and remove oil filler cap from screaming, belching runaway diesel? Piece of cake.

 

[TomSeller]

Sure- dismount, open hood, find and remove oil filler cap from screaming, belching runaway diesel? Piece of cake.

If it were in my barn with 1000 round bales, all my machinery, calves, tools ,,,, yes, piece of cake.

 

[lakeridge]

I have been told that in Kubota Canada has a mandatory campaign to update all MX model tractors with the CCV system using the oil separator canister. Problem is being caused by condensation accumulation and freezing within the oil separator canister and vent on the valve cover. When the canister freezes the pressure builds within the crankcase and crankcase oil starts to push past the turbo seals into the intake system. Update kit includes a heater system to prevent the CCV system from freezing in cold ambient temps.

 

[rScotty]

I have been told that in Kubota Canada has a mandatory campaign to update all MX model tractors with the CCV system using the oil separator canister. Problem is being caused by condensation accumulation and freezing within the oil separator canister and vent on the valve cover. When the canister freezes the pressure builds within the crankcase and crankcase oil starts to push past the turbo seals into the intake system. Update kit includes a heater system to prevent the CCV system from freezing in cold ambient temps.

That's great news!

Can freezing condensation affect any of their other engines? Looking at the parts books, I see that several models share Kubota's V2403 2.4 liter engine block and they also share an oddly complex vent mounted on top of the valve cover. The vent looks like an old-fashioned vent tube leading overboard & coupled with some filters and a separater. That much is all standard motor stuff used on motors for 50 years. But then there's also what looks to be a barometric switch of some sort that may turn venting on/off. .... I wonder about that.

The M59 is interm tier IV and I believe the MX5100 is too. Depending on what components are shared with the MX5200.....but, if they all share the same vent on the crankcase - and if that is where the freeezing happens - then given the "just right to be wrong" moisture and temperature they could have a similar problem.
I'm guessing it isn't a problem, but surely worth looking into.
If you hear anything more we'd all love to hear it. Good on Kubota for getting on this.

thanks,
rScotty

 

[razor]

That's great news!

Can freezing condensation affect any of their other engines? Looking at the parts books, I see that several models share Kubota's V2403 2.4 liter engine block and they also share an oddly complex vent mounted on top of the valve cover. The vent looks like an old-fashioned vent tube leading overboard & coupled with some filters and a separater. That much is all standard motor stuff used on motors for 50 years. But then there's also what looks to be a barometric switch of some sort that may turn venting on/off. .... I wonder about that.

The M59 is interm tier IV and I believe the MX5100 is too. Depending on what components are shared with the MX5200.....but, if they all share the same vent on the crankcase - and if that is where the freeezing happens - then given the "just right to be wrong" moisture and temperature they could have a similar problem.
I'm guessing it isn't a problem, but surely worth looking into.
If you hear anything more we'd all love to hear it. Good on Kubota for getting on this.

thanks,
rScotty

This freezing issue is same problem I am having with my L6060. My dealer warned me about it last winter. I was advised to take the canister apart each time I use it and wipe the condensation out out it. They have been using all the update kits on the new tractors leaving the dealerships so I am told. I am waiting to have mine updated but they have been "back ordered" since early January. I guess I was lucky that it did not happen earlier to me, it must not have been that cold out up until now.

Kubota and their dealers have known about this for well over a year and it sure does not seem like they are moving fast enough for me to fix this problem. I use these tractors commercialy and lately I have not been overly impressed with quality.

 

[KYDan]

The MX 5100 is a tier III, well at least the on that I have is. That is the reason I purchased it when I did. I purchased it August 2011.

 

[sixdogs]

The MX 5100 is a tier III, well at least the on that I have is. That is the reason I purchased it when I did. I purchased it August 2011.

I bought mine in August 2012. What a great tractor.

 

[rabcon]

Been a very interesting thread !!! Time to go FISHING !!!

 

[s219]

The MX 5100 is a tier III, well at least the on that I have is. That is the reason I purchased it when I did. I purchased it August 2011.

Should be Tier IV Interim I'd think, unless it was an old model. Tier III was phased out beginning in 2011 when Tier IV interim kicked in. Tier IV final came in for 2015 models.

 

[sixdogs]

What does tier 4 interim mean? Mine looks, acts and feels like a normal tractor.

 

[ccsial]

What does tier 4 interim mean? Mine looks, acts and feels like a normal tractor.

A bit of explanation here.

http://bellpower.com/uploads/product_brochures/4_IT4_FAQ[1].pdf

 

[sixdogs]

A bit of explanation here.

http://bellpower.com/uploads/product_brochures/4_IT4_FAQ[1].pdf

Thank you. The MX5100 does appear to have an interim Tier IV engine but zero mention of it is made in the owner's manual or any of the paperwork I got. It appears I don't need to do anything until several thousand hours if at all. The scheduled maintenance makes no mention of any service ever required. So, does an Interim Tier IV mean anything negative?

I'm looking to buy a used one of these as well. Should Interim Tier IV be of any concern to a buyer?

 

[s219]

I am not aware of any concerns with Tier IV Interim machines. Anything sold from 2011 through 2014/2015 has been Tier IV Interim, and we would have heard about issues by now. Seems like they have been fine. Many of us specifically sought out and bought Tier IV Interim machines to avoid the looming Tier IV Final regulations.

 

[MHarryE]

Tier 4 interim varies by power range. I do not have the power ratings memorized and don't have time to check them right now but roughly Tier 4 interim came In on 37 - 75 HP tractors in 2011. My L5740 2011 model is Tier 4 interim. It has no DPF but it foes have EGR. The replacement meeting Tier 4 final came in2014 and included the DPF. My M135GX is in what I believe is the 75 - 175 HP class (not sure of the top end because the largest machine for which I was responsible was 175 HP) for which Tier 4 interim was introduced in 2013 and Tier 4 final is now in effect for 2015. Tractors in that class now being sold with the Tier 4 interim engine are allowed for part of the year due to emissions credits - building cleaner engines than needed and introducing some engines early can build credits. In addition some stock in the pipeline is allowed. For Tier 4 final those tractors from Kubota will get DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) in addition to the DPF they got for Tier 4 interim.

My M135GX was in the dealer's shop this winter to get the transmission control computer replaced. After they had done some fine tuning they asked me to come to the dealership and try it out prior to returning. While the dealer mechanic and I were test driving it around the dealer's yard, we suffered an apparent turbo failure. That was very strange because it was running around the shop with me evaluating shifting, no towed load. All of a sudden I get low oil pressure warning and engine starts smoking. Absolutely no power, lists of engine speed. The engine was down to just barely on the dipstick. The turbo area was dripping oil like a sieve. The dealer, also a New Holland dealer, said that although losing a turbo on a New Holland is not uncommon, this is the first replacement for a Kubota. Now reading this thread I am not sure the turbo failed. It sounds exactly like the K6060 failure. Incidentally my engine has a large oil separator on top of the engine just like someone described on his M5200. They replaced my turbo but it could be a separator problem. We couldn't figure why a turbo would fail loafing around a shop while it ran perfectly all summer long.

 

[wmonroe]

Thank you. The MX5100 does appear to have an interim Tier IV engine but zero mention of it is made in the owner's manual or any of the paperwork I got. It appears I don't need to do anything until several thousand hours if at all. The scheduled maintenance makes no mention of any service ever required. So, does an Interim Tier IV mean anything negative? I'm looking to buy a used one of these as well. Should Interim Tier IV be of any concern to a buyer?

My 5240 is interim tier IV and has egr and more retarded timing. The timing is an annoyance because of the smokey cold starts but if someone wanted both the timing and egr could be fixed fairly easily.

 

[rScotty]

Thank you. The MX5100 does appear to have an interim Tier IV engine but zero mention of it is made in the owner's manual or any of the paperwork I got. It appears I don't need to do anything until several thousand hours if at all. The scheduled maintenance makes no mention of any service ever required. So, does an Interim Tier IV mean anything negative?

I'm looking to buy a used one of these as well. Should Interim Tier IV be of any concern to a buyer?

Kubota's Interim Tier IV engines go back to at least 2008 when the M59 came out with it using their V2304 engine. That's the same basic 148 cu. in. 4 cylinder motor block that Kubota has used for years in a variety through a variety of states of tune and emissions. They use it in a lot of their mid size machines including the MX5100 and M59. I've owned one for 6 years and haven't had any problem with it......and haven't heard of any problems either.

Kubota's owner & shop manuals don't show any special service requirements for Interim Tier IV engines. As part of the Tier IV equipment thise engines have an EGR valve and an EGR cooler, but neither requires any attention. They run noticibly cleaner than the old style pre-emission diesels, but they will still throw out diesel smoke when starting up or coming off extended idle....just as wmonroe said.
rScotty

 

[MHarryE]

Tier 4 interim engines in the 37 - 75 HP range are roughly equivalent to the Tier 3 engines in the 75 - 175 HP range. The Tier 4 final M5200 cannot meet emissions as the enigne age due to engine blowby emissions so the blowby is recirculated and burned while the Tier 4 interim are exhausted into the atmosphere. These emissions contain vaporized oil that could foul the intake system so the oil separator is introduced to separate the oil out and drain it back into the crankcase. Consequently the oil separator was introduced on Tier 4 final in the 37 - 75 HP range and 75 - 175HP in the Tier 4 interim range. From my Kubota M135GX WSM -- "V6108-TIE4 engine has a oil separator that removes oil in the blowby gases that pass through the element (1) and the oil is returned to the oil pan. Blowby gases that pass through the element (1) are mixed in to the intake upstream from the turbocharger." From the illustration if the element freezes with condensation so no blowby can pass, it will go into the sealed crancase where pressures will rise and oil needs to leave somewhere. It is possible that the weak link is the turbo oil seals so oil will be forced through the seals into the intake stream.

 

[sixdogs]

In searching the MX5100 I have and interim Tier III I found a site that said that Tier IV is not the end game but that more emission restrictions were ion the way after we get the bugs worked out of Tier IV. So some day we may look back on the good old days of Tie IV. I sure hope not.

 

[KYDan]

It has been sometime since I purchased my MX5100 (Aug 2011). I was told at the time I purchased my tractor that it was a Tier III emission standards tractor. I assumed that Kubota did not implement interim tier IV, but opted to go to Tier III and then go straight to tier IV. For this power band, engine manufacturers had the option to move from Tier 2 to either Tier 3 or Interim Tier 4 regulations in 2008. Manufacturers that chose to move to Tier 3 in 2008 will skip IT4 and must comply with FT4 regulations in 2012. Manufacturers that chose to move to IT4 in 2008 must comply with FT4 regulations one year later in 2013. Is this incorrect information?

 

[sixdogs]

It has been sometime since I purchased my MX5100 (Aug 2011). I was told at the time I purchased my tractor that it was a Tier III emission standards tractor. I assumed that Kubota did not implement interim tier IV, but opted to go to Tier III and then go straight to tier IV. For this power band, engine manufacturers had the option to move from Tier 2 to either Tier 3 or Interim Tier 4 regulations in 2008. Manufacturers that chose to move to Tier 3 in 2008 will skip IT4 and must comply with FT4 regulations in 2012. Manufacturers that chose to move to IT4 in 2008 must comply with FT4 regulations one year later in 2013. Is this incorrect information?

I looked it up yesterday and you can get your engine model and look it up. I have a 2012 (maybe 2011?) MX5100 and it says interim Tier IV but I don't see anything under the hood that looks like apparatus. Beats me.

TractorData.com Kubota MX5100 tractor engine information

Mid-Size Tractors | MX4700 MX5100 | Kubota Tractor Corporation click on specifications