Moving a dirt pile efficiently. Learn me something.

StuartDK45SE · May 5, 2015

I've been around tractors for 40 years I guess, but this one is the first one with a FEL. I've had some days off and I am moving a pile of topsoil for my church and spreading it out with a box blade (at which I have a lot of experience). For the most part I've just been driving straight into the pile RPMs up and start raising and curling the bucket to get a good load. The tractor is a 45 horse Kioti with the shuttle shift, so I have to clutch from forward to reverse. I guess my question is about lugging the engine down momentarily until I break free with the load. This seems almost inevitable unless I turn a 12 hour job into a 30 hour job. Does it hurt anything to do this? I've been driving into the pile in 4wd and in first or second gear in mid range. One thing I've tried is shaving the edges off the pile which creates a lot of loose stuff that is easy to scoop, but that just seems like extra work and time. What is your general methodology, gearing, speed, rpm etc?

rasp21 · May 6, 2015

Do just what you are doing,,, Work that tractor,,, that's what it was made to do. You are doing it just right. If your FEL will pick it, your tractor will handle it, providing you have counter weight, but you know that any way with years of experience. BTW Box blade is one of the best counter weights you can have, and one of the most usefull implements you can have. G.

RedNeckRacin · May 6, 2015

AS long as your not stalling the motor, your doing all right. With 4wd, you don't need to ram the pile at warp speed because as you lift, your front tires get ALOT more traction. Wasting time trying to get an overflowing bucket isn't worth it either, im sure as you work your way through, you will get a feel on how to load the bucket efficiently. If the pile is really packed in tight, you can start a little higher to keep the breakout forces a lil lower while filling the bucket. Happy tractoring!

rd_macgregor · May 6, 2015

Do you have a tooth bar on the bucket? If the pile is settled/compacted very much and you don't have a tooth bar, you might find it helpful to backdrag the pile to break it down a bit, then scoop up the looser debris. With a tooth bar, you likely wouldn't have any problem just digging right in. As long as you aren't repeatedly stalling the engine, don't worry about rpm dropping while you scoop. When I do a job like this, I find myself wishing I had the HST version of my tractor (not available on the DK45 when I bought mine in '06).

Gary Fowler · May 6, 2015

I find that sometimes it works best to back drag from the top of a well compacted pile so you have some loose material to scoop up. Otherwise it sound like you are doing OK. Don't ram into a pile of dirt at more than a slow walk speed because you could damage the FEL.

The best way to get a full bucket is to start with the bucket cutting edge in a slightly downward from level position and then lift and tilt back as you drive into the pile. HST is really nice for this as you can keep the forward pressure on and not stall the engine, but straight gear will work too if you gear it down slow enough. Spinning the tires a bit is ok as long as you aren't digging deep holes when loading.

TripleR · May 6, 2015

Pretty much what everyone else said, I've been using a FEL since 1986 and I still have to take the time to get a full bucket, back dragging etc., so I spend about the same amount of time hauling partial buckets or taking the time to get a full bucket.

I rarely have a pile of anything loose enough to just drive in and get a full bucket consistently using the method in the manual with one easy pass.

I use HST as well as gear and when using gears, I go in fairly slow using the foot throttle for more power as needed and usually spin my tires a bit as long as I'm getting traction and making progress.

ishiboo · May 6, 2015

StuartDK45SE said:
I've been around tractors for 40 years I guess, but this one is the first one with a FEL. I've had some days off and I am moving a pile of topsoil for my church and spreading it out with a box blade (at which I have a lot of experience). For the most part I've just been driving straight into the pile RPMs up and start raising and curling the bucket to get a good load. The tractor is a 45 horse Kioti with the shuttle shift, so I have to clutch from forward to reverse. I guess my question is about lugging the engine down momentarily until I break free with the load. This seems almost inevitable unless I turn a 12 hour job into a 30 hour job. Does it hurt anything to do this? I've been driving into the pile in 4wd and in first or second gear in mid range. One thing I've tried is shaving the edges off the pile which creates a lot of loose stuff that is easy to scoop, but that just seems like extra work and time. What is your general methodology, gearing, speed, rpm etc?

View attachment 423570

Lots of good advice here. I'd add one more thing.

I had 550 lbs of topsoil delivered, and tried various ways of distributing it with the skid loader, tractor, etc. The fastest and easiest (on the machines and operator) way i found was to use only the box blade. These were lower piles (a few feet) though.

If you have to distribute the dirt immediately by the pile, I would break down the pile and use the box blade. If it's going "on a trip," than the loader (or a loader + trailer) will be the way to go.

The excavator that dropped off the soil (there were a few 18 yard trucks running for a while!) tried to sell me on 2 days of him on a dozer to spread and grade. It took about 3-4 hours of machine time to actually spread the dirt, and then a few more hours of final box blading and a landscape rake to be prepared for seed. This was on my old Kubota L3650.

StuartDK45SE · May 6, 2015

Thanks for all the replies. The dirt is surprisingly good. I was afraid it would be our infamous gumbo we have in so many places down here, but it's not. Agree totally about moving dirt with the box blade but I'm having to go up and over a new concrete drive (where the dirt came from) and dump and spread it in a low area about 75 feet away. Yes an HST would be handy if I did this all the time. I'm headed back up there now. Will post a picture when I get it done.

Ford850 · May 8, 2015

I do it the same as others have suggested. Drop the bucket over the top, dump the empty bucket, and pull the top off the pile landing in front. I can usually get a couple good buckets full, then pull more down. Even if the pile seems loose, the inside is compacted on itself, and backdragging it off the pile makes it much easier. It also seems to load the bucket easier, scraping/floating on the ground as I fill it compared to stabbing the center of the pile.

Utopia Texas · May 8, 2015

When things appear to be going slow keep in mind how long it would take to do the job with a shovel and a wheelbarrow, and how much aspirin or Tylenol you'd have to take for days afterwards!

big bubba · May 8, 2015

ok so shuttle shift. is this a gear model then? & if so high/low range on those gears? i'd do the fel work in various low range gears, & transport/spread in higher range. apologize if this is obvious. had to to the same to move earth leveling a large pond dam...sure glad i had the hi/low & hyd shuttle. best

Sysop · May 8, 2015

ishiboo said:
I had 550 lbs of topsoil delivered, and tried various ways of distributing it with the skid loader, tractor, etc. The fastest and easiest (on the machines and operator) way i found was to use only the box blade. These were lower piles (a few feet) though.

550lbs typo? That's just a few bags, not real sure that's worth firing a tractor up for...

Beyond that I have to agree with the box blade. My 6' BB is about the same size as my 6' bucket, but I can get the BB loaded to the point it is piled above the top of the BB and pulling a pile that is clear up against the rear tires and drag it where it is needed with no problem. That's more than double what will fit in the FEL bucket (probably dragging around 5000# conservatively)... I also like following different paths to the destination so I'm dropping off bits of dirt in any low spots.

Piles of any size really don't bother me for boxblading it out. I'll push the FEL a few inches down through a 20' tall pile ramping a path over it, dragging the boxblade along to collect it.

Sucks OP had a driveway in the way, BB would have saved a lot of trips...

Wagtail · May 8, 2015

Thanks for this thread. I'm staring at a neighbour's dirt pile (top soil from preparing for a concrete slab) that he's given permission to use.

I've got a 4in1 bucket and it would've taken a while before I 'twigged' to the drag-down-then-scoop method.

Ta.

countrybumpkin · May 8, 2015

big bubba said:
ok so shuttle shift. is this a gear model then? & if so high/low range on those gears? i'd do the fel work in various low range gears, & transport/spread in higher range. apologize if this is obvious. had to to the same to move earth leveling a large pond dam...sure glad i had the hi/low & hyd shuttle. best

Here is a basic video that briefly describes the trans types.

http://youtu.be/xzdqA6NlXO0

DJ54 · May 8, 2015

On that particular pile, and at that particular time, I would work the left and right sides next, that are sticking out. Work them in, until you are past the center cut, about as much as you are in the center, compared to the outsides in the picture. Then go back to the center. If you leave points about 2/3 the width of the bucket, you'll actually have more breakout/loading force, only cutting 2/3 of the bucket width, but yet end up with a bucket full of dirt.

Just work across the face of the pile, and leave a space about 2/3 the width of the bucket, then come back and pick that point up. As you work into the pile, the face will get wider. Just keep making the narrower points, and working them off, back & forth. It will load easier, and be easier on your tractor.

TripleR · May 9, 2015

I hauled two full dump truck loads of rock yesterday, half mile round trip. Got a full bucket, dropped it on the pile to back drag then it was ready for another fairly easy dig on my return. Every few trips, I had to square it off or change angle.

I've used the technique described by DJ54 on dirt. The size, shape and type of material as well as size/type of machine may well dictate different approaches.

flusher · May 9, 2015

Lugging the engine severely and then declutching while it's lugging is risky. Diesel engine rotation can be reversed, the engine runs backwards, oil pressure drops, water pump rotation direction is reversed and then bad things can happen before you are able to turn off the engine. Check out this recent TBN thread for more info

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/safety/326144-agco-gt-75a-tractor-engine.html

Also, if the pile of stuff you're scooping with the FEL is resting on a concrete surface, you need to be in 2WD. When you push the bucket into the pile and the forward motion stops, all the driven wheels have to be able to slip. Not so much a problem for the big rear wheels. However, if you're in 4WD drive, there's a good chance that the front wheels won't be able to slip and you can mess up the 4WD system (shafts, axles, transfer box, etc).

Good luck.

Deere Dude · May 9, 2015

StuartDK45SE said:
I've been around tractors for 40 years I guess, but this one is the first one with a FEL. I've had some days off and I am moving a pile of topsoil for my church and spreading it out with a box blade (at which I have a lot of experience). For the most part I've just been driving straight into the pile RPMs up and start raising and curling the bucket to get a good load. The tractor is a 45 horse Kioti with the shuttle shift, so I have to clutch from forward to reverse. I guess my question is about lugging the engine down momentarily until I break free with the load. This seems almost inevitable unless I turn a 12 hour job into a 30 hour job. Does it hurt anything to do this? I've been driving into the pile in 4wd and in first or second gear in mid range. One thing I've tried is shaving the edges off the pile which creates a lot of loose stuff that is easy to scoop, but that just seems like extra work and time. What is your general methodology, gearing, speed, rpm etc?

View attachment 423570

I'm envious. I had a berm by my house that was about that size of your picture on the end and maybe 12' tall. The berm was at least 200 foot long, few stones just packed topsoil, and I needed the dirt to fill in some lowland to make lawn. I used a medium sized skid steer for a couple days to do some transporting of dirt immediately around the house, then a couple years later when I started again I used my new JD hydro compact tractor. Near the end of the pile I was wishing it was a lot bigger because I was really getting into the groove. Enjoy it. I wish I had another berm to move.