More residential well questions

[Cub 7275]

After reading many of the well threads there are still many questions.

Cliff notes: well drilled 1971, 100 feet deep, 4" steel casing. New pump in 1991 with 1" galvanized drop pipe. The pump will not produce more than 30 psi anymore, flow is still good. System holds pressure when pump shuts off. Well guy tried to pull the pump, said it was stuck and that he could try until it comes loose or breaks and if it breaks no water for a month or more since they are backlogged for drilling new wells. Decided to leave it for now. Lots of sediment in the water filters for a while after the attempt to pull the pump.

I'm resigned to getting a new well drilled, but am a bit unsure about what to ask for. The current offering here in Michigan seems to be 5" sch 40 pvc casing and 1" sch 80 pvc for the drop pipe and a 2 wire pump.

Our previous home had a 300 foot deep well with a 6" steel casing, 3 wire pump and an aircraft type cable going to the pump for pulling it out.

I'm a little concerned about the pvc drop pipe being used to pull the pump out. I also like the 3 wire pump for a few reasons.


Soo what would the TBN experts recommend?

 

[JJT]

If the current flow is good, why not put a booster pump in at the house?

Same deal here, well drillers are backed up big time. Get on the schedule if you think that's going to be required. As for 4", 5" or 6", you're most likely going to get what the well driller has to offer. Around here it's 6" steel casing, pounded or drilled, no other choices.

My brother had a well drilled a few months ago, $10K flat fee, for drilling up to 300' and setting the pump. My brother was on the hook for everything from the pitless adapter to the inside plumbing. 3 - 4 months lead time.

 

[TractorTech]

The pvc drop pipe is great for pulling and its anti corrosion properties, but we have experienced on a couple of wells that pvc was used, warping of the pipe allowing the pump to rub against the steel casing. In those cases, it ruined the motor.

 

[groundcover]

I would go 6" steel casing, poly pipe with stainless safety line , 3 wire pump.

 

[Jchonline]

If the current flow is good, why not put a booster pump in at the house?

Same deal here, well drillers are backed up big time. Get on the schedule if you think that's going to be required. As for 4", 5" or 6", you're most likely going to get what the well driller has to offer. Around here it's 6" steel casing, pounded or drilled, no other choices.

My brother had a well drilled a few months ago, $10K flat fee, for drilling up to 300' and setting the pump. My brother was on the hook for everything from the pitless adapter to the inside plumbing. 3 - 4 months lead time.

And maybe a cistern in front of that. We have 1100 gal cistern (you can get much smaller) and a booster pump...never any issues.

 

[ponytug]

After reading many of the well threads there are still many questions.

Cliff notes: well drilled 1971, 100 feet deep, 4" steel casing. New pump in 1991 with 1" galvanized drop pipe. The pump will not produce more than 30 psi anymore, flow is still good. System holds pressure when pump shuts off. Well guy tried to pull the pump, said it was stuck and that he could try until it comes loose or breaks and if it breaks no water for a month or more since they are backlogged for drilling new wells. Decided to leave it for now. Lots of sediment in the water filters for a while after the attempt to pull the pump.

I'm resigned to getting a new well drilled, but am a bit unsure about what to ask for. The current offering here in Michigan seems to be 5" sch 40 pvc casing and 1" sch 80 pvc for the drop pipe and a 2 wire pump.

Our previous home had a 300 foot deep well with a 6" steel casing, 3 wire pump and an aircraft type cable going to the pump for pulling it out.

I'm a little concerned about the pvc drop pipe being used to pull the pump out. I also like the 3 wire pump for a few reasons.


Soo what would the TBN experts recommend?

We have, and have had, PVC drop pipe on our wells, with no issues in either, and both were in ground for 40-50 years before being pulled and replaced. One had an anti torque sleeve on (1 1/4"PVC in a 6" PVC pipe). I would not do a steel pipe under any circumstances. I think that is just asking for corrosion issues.

I think that you could ask for either polypropylene safety rope or stainless aircraft cable. It is your well. Both work. I prefer three wire pumps, because the bits that might fail first are all above ground and easy to service.

Two Wire Versus Three Wire Submersible Pumps — Gainesville Pump - No water? No problem.

Most 4″ submersible well pumps used in residential applications come in 2 different configurations, 2-wire or 3-wire. With the 3-wire pump, the motor starting components such as, starting capacitors, running capacitors, relays, and thermal over loads, are contai

www.gainesvillepump.com

Pulling a pump with PVC is not usually an issue. If you have had a casing failure, or a slump, or material dropped into the well, or corrosion, all bets are off. Well drillers have lots of specialized tools for catching and snagging broken wire or cable or pipe to get a bore clear, but that is generally dependent upon having a drill rig free to do the fiddling and uphauling.

Having a 100' boroscope go down the casing to have a look see would let you and the drillers know what you are up against.

To your original issue; by the sound of it your footer valve (check valve at the pump) is ok, so the pressure has stayed up, but the impellers on your pump are worn, (and therefore need replacing), and as a result of being worn aren't producing the pressure that you want.

All the best,

Peter

 

[ericm979]

We had one pump go out when the splines between the motor and pump wore out. The motor was turning it just wasn't driving the pump.

Another time we had a steel well pipe rust through so water would just fall back into the well and not get to the tank. That burned the motor out.

We have all PVC pipe now, and a pumpsaver on the motor to cut power if it detects a problem like under or over current. Last month the pumpsaver burned out. Its still worth having. You can buy an "Informer" which will read data off the pump saver so you can see if its had any errors.

BTW we noticed that the old steel pipes were 21' and the new PVC are 20'. So with the same number of sticks the well winds up being closer to the surface. This may or may not matter depending on the well and how much water you use.

 

[etpm]

I did some looking online a couple years ago when my pump failed. The failure was mechanical, all the nuts that held the motor to the pump had vibrated off. A Grundfos pump. My original pump was a 3 wire and I had it replaced with a 3 wire. Many posts talked about how 2 wire pumps were more reliable, but 2 wire pumps, when the starting circuit fails, require pulling the pump and replacing it. The guy that replaced my pump suggested I stick with the 3 wire, especially since I have the ability to easily replace the above ground parts if they fail. The most likely part to fail is the starting capacitor. I have a brand new one that I vacuum packed in the box with the pump control. I also have a new contactor, also vacuum packed, in the pump control box. I did this because I live on an island and stuff like well pumps always fail when you have company on a weekend. My pump has a rope attached for pulling, I thought this was only wise and can't imagine not using a rope as a safety for pulling the pump. The old pump had a rope attached too. I'm curious though, why would you need a new well drilled? If the pump somehow falls off it is cheaper to drill a new well than to retrieve the pump? I'm not a well driller so I don't know but I do know there are devices made for retrieving well pumps. I also am wondering why there is not a rope or cable attached to your existing pump.
Eric

 

[steve tym]

PVC drop pipe is a better choice.
Don't install a safety cable of any description. I have never rescued a pump because of one, but have lost some.
2 wire motors last for a decade, 3 wire motors last for decades.
Family business now for 87 years, been doing it since I was 7.

 

[Cub 7275]

If the current flow is good, why not put a booster pump in at the house?

Same deal here, well drillers are backed up big time. Get on the schedule if you think that's going to be required. As for 4", 5" or 6", you're most likely going to get what the well driller has to offer. Around here it's 6" steel casing, pounded or drilled, no other choices.

My brother had a well drilled a few months ago, $10K flat fee, for drilling up to 300' and setting the pump. My brother was on the hook for everything from the pitless adapter to the inside plumbing. 3 - 4 months lead time.

If there was a way to confirm it is only impeller wear causing the lack of pressure I'd do a booster setup. I'd hate to go to the trouble and expense only to get a few more months out of the pump and then have to drill a new well anyway. And Murphy's law says the pump will fail in the coldest part of the winter.... We've been quoted around $9K for drilling 100' and everything outside the house (I changed the bladder tank a few years back).

..... I'm curious though, why would you need a new well drilled? If the pump somehow falls off it is cheaper to drill a new well than to retrieve the pump? I'm not a well driller so I don't know but I do know there are devices made for retrieving well pumps. I also am wondering why there is not a rope or cable attached to your existing pump.
Eric

After 52 years the 4" steel casing has failed and it is too small to be sleeved. The existing pump has 1" galvanized sch 40 pipe from the pitless to the pump and from the pitless to the underside of cover with a center bolt that operates some kind of locking foot at the pitless. Definitely do not want that setup again. I saw the pump puller truck squat as he was trying to pull the pump, so he did put some force on it. My thought is why dump a bunch more money into it hoping the pump will come out when sediment will continue to fall into the well and eventually destroy a replacement pump? A relatively new well should be a selling point should we choose to retire elsewhere.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll have to look in to that pump saver.

Is there any rule of thumb how close to the old well the new one can be?

Last question (I hope), our existing well is between two large pine trees. With a PVC casing are there any concerns about tree roots and/or how close a tree can be to the well?