Massey Ferguson 1740M Hydro: LOSS OF POWER when hot!

[mapper]

Did you clean the suction filter when you changed the hydraulic oil and filters?
Mine is located behind the loader subframe piece that attaches to the rear axle housing. It requires removing said piece in order to get it out. Mine had some debris in it the first time I cleaned it. If yours does it may be restricting the flow some.

 

[Dmacleo]

Did you clean the suction filter when you changed the hydraulic oil and filters?
Mine is located behind the loader subframe piece that attaches to the rear axle housing. It requires removing said piece in order to get it out. Mine had some debris in it the first time I cleaned it. If yours does it may be restricting the flow some.

yeah really is looking like that. its either that or the whole hydro system is losing pressure. don't have time to dig into service manual right now (2300 and 2400 use,iirc, same parts/specs) but if I get a chance tomorrow I will post the service manual again.
fwiw a plugged suction intake filter (behind left rear tire) can cause a crapload of issues.

yeah mentioned something similar in the loss of pto power thread.

 

[JWR]

yeah mentioned something similar in the loss of pto power thread.

Could be (clogged suction filter) but, if it is that, it is hard to picture why that would wait 40 minutes of run time before becoming noticeable. Maybe happens as the hyd fluid gets warm enough to cause the issue ??

 

[TopSpeed1]

Could be (clogged suction filter) but, if it is that, it is hard to picture why that would wait 40 minutes of run time before becoming noticeable. Maybe happens as the hyd fluid gets warm enough to cause the issue ??

I concur, I'm changing both filters (and the 821XL fluid) just to be able to rule this out....

I'm barking more up this tree because (insert lightbulb above my head here!) over a year ago, I blew a hydraulic line, one that's right above the lower fuel filter and primer pump area. It went back to the dealer for repair, and, I'm sure they had to "top off" the Hyd fluid?.

Hmmm?, SO... I got thinking yesterday when JWR mentioned fluid and possible contaminants?. And, I could be just grasping at straws here, but it's something that's so puzzling that I have to look into all avenues, and, the more I got thinking.... could a mis-fill of Hyd oil been had? Most likely not since a dealer did this, but you never know if a rookie mechanic did the work?, i.e. grabbed the gear driven regular Hyd oil?. Absolutely have no idea, but I need to rule this out since my own fingers didn't do that work.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not blaming or determining anything yet. BUT!, a full Hyd oil change w filters should rule this out (or in).

 

[TopSpeed1]

My mind is still thinking;
It's weird cuz the tractor was fine for several Months, if not an entire year after that hyd line blowout. Maybe the process would take awhile also? I never saw any milkyness or murkyness in the (supposedly sight) site-glass. It's crystal clear hot or cold.

 

[thclimer]

If this truly is a heat related issue I wonder if you could use a inferred heat gun to try and determine the transmission temp during your 40 min test runs? 40 min sure seems like a long time to me but maybe the transmission has enough heat mass that it takes that long for everything to warm up unlike your engine which I'd say would be warm in 10 min or so.

I'm not sure where you would measure its temp, maybe a filter housing or somewhere near a drain plug. I believe the guns are fairly inexpensive and it would at least give you a reference for the changes that you are making. Possibly before and after this fluid change that you are planning would give you some insight?

I'm sure somewhere this temperature is digitally being monitored along with many of other parameters however, we just don't have access to these.

 

[TopSpeed1]

Did you clean the suction filter when you changed the hydraulic oil and filters?
Mine is located behind the loader subframe piece that attaches to the rear axle housing. It requires removing said piece in order to get it out. Mine had some debris in it the first time I cleaned it. If yours does it may be restricting the flow some.

Hi, You can remove this horizontal suction filter without removing the subframe gray bar. I have successfully done it.

I will make a thread on the entire procedure including step by step images. Give me a few days...

 

[TopSpeed1]

If this truly is a heat related issue I wonder if you could use a inferred heat gun to try and determine the transmission temp during your 40 min test runs? 40 min sure seems like a long time to me but maybe the transmission has enough heat mass that it takes that long for everything to warm up unlike your engine which I'd say would be warm in 10 min or so.

I'm not sure where you would measure its temp, maybe a filter housing or somewhere near a drain plug. I believe the guns are fairly inexpensive and it would at least give you a reference for the changes that you are making. Possibly before and after this fluid change that you are planning would give you some insight?

I'm sure somewhere this temperature is digitally being monitored along with many of other parameters however, we just don't have access to these.

So today before my draining, I did the ole 40, had plenty of power during and when the power started to lag, I put her in the pole barn and immediately drained the Hyd oil. I was expecting it to be hot, but it was actually like a very warm shower, like that you'd have during the winter.

I also thought it would be milky-ish, well I was hoping anyways as then I thought I could start pointing a finger at something. Here is the pic of some of the 7.5 gls that came out...

 

[thclimer]

"Like a warm shower" doesn't seem very hot then. While I don't have a lot of experience with hydro oil doesn't that look pretty dark? Is what you are putting in more clear?

With your new fluid it will be interesting to see if after running for a while, 40+ min if you experience any sluggishness.

 

[TopSpeed1]

"Like a warm shower" doesn't seem very hot then. While I don't have a lot of experience with hydro oil doesn't that look pretty dark? Is what you are putting in more clear?

With your new fluid it will be interesting to see if after running for a while, 40+ min if you experience any sluggishness.

I was surprised, I was anticipating my fingers almost getting "scorched" while taking out the oil plug (during in the last few turns).

To me as well; Oil did look dark, but maybe b/c I used a white used drywall mud bucket?... used this as it was a tad lower to get under the tractor belly better. I then dumped those loads in group of 3 into my bigger oil recycling pails while noticing the more darkness than the new. At least so it appears.

Not sure if this is normal or not?

 

[Yander]

My dealer is baffled by this problem, they had the tractor for almost 4 weeks. I guess a computer update was supposedly the cure. It was returned to me and was not the cure. I want to stress the time(s) in the video that the occurrences happen. My MF 1740M has plenty of power and torque until about 40 minutes of mowing with a light to medium load; as lawn was actually mowed the day before, so this is a re-mow or mulch so to speak. (video edited so you don't see all the in-between). I made the video thorough because I need to emphasize the good run time to power loss / malfunctioning gap. My dealer was told, but it's hard to understand if you're on it for even 20 minutes, it's going to be fine. And, with no load?, it may be over an hour! (I'm not actually sure cuz I only use the tractor w a load/chores). While mowing; Kicking in the A/C makes the loggy-ness happen a tad earlier (~40mins vs ~50mins).

I posted this on one other tractor forum and that's it, I didn't post this on my main Youtube Channel (with 25K Subscribers), so YT surfing trolls shouldn't pickup on this and start the "You shoulda got a Deere!" etc. I want the issue addressed and corrected, I don't want to buy a different tractor as my fix. Appreciate any contributing comments....

I'm following this thread interested in what you find out. Our Massey 1750m did this a couple times since we've owned it. I was bush hogging and it seemed to lose power and it was roughly about an hour or to an hour and a half into the bush hogging. I was able to finish but at a slower rate and then when I used it the next time it didn't seem to do it. So I have no idea what the correlation is.

 

[TopSpeed1]

TH- I have all the old fluid and 2 filters removed. I'm waiting on the vertical filter yet to arrive, it's coming from a MF dealer in Utah, so that shipment to central NY has a few more days to it. I have new the oil but won't fill till I have everything ready. Opening lid, it does look clearer, but it's in a black bucket too? I might go out and dip some in a clear glass.

BTW- My local MF dealer is an hour away, so the filter was the same price but Amazon can deliver cheaper than I can drive 2 hrs roundtrip.

 

[TopSpeed1]

I'm following this threat interested in what you find out. Our Massey 1750m did this a couple times since we've owned it. I was bush hogging and it seemed to lose power and it was roughly about an hour or to an hour and a half into the bush hogging. I was able to finish but at a slower rate and then when I used it the next time it didn't seem to do it. So I have no idea what the correlation is.

Man, I hear ya loud and clear!
My 1750M is perfectly fine the next day, well at least for another 40 minutes of mowing (And, I no longer want to use the word "hot" as that got some folks on a wrong tangent).

I don't mind being the guinea pig, as long as we get this resolved. Yes, please stay tuned.

 

[thclimer]

The darkness to me is a bit concerning as unlike your engine oil I don't think there would be any contaminants that would make hydraulic oil dark, other than if it got too hot at some point.

I'm going to be very interested to hear how your first run on this new fluid goes.

 

[JWR]

I think I mentioned this before but it is really worth doing to engage a MF regional service rep. They have a lot of horsepower in terms of resolving issues but aside from that they also have access to a lot larger set of info than the typical dealer. The Regional Rep may very well have seen or heard of this "40 minute symptom" before. I think that is worth a try. Dealer should give you the regional reps phone number.

 

[loggin]

Still waiting to hear if this machine is under warranty or not..??

 

[thclimer]

Still waiting to hear if this machine is under warranty or not..??

He mentioned that it was in its last year in another thread post #9

Oil & Fuel - 1740m hydraulic filters (HST)

 

[mapper]

Hi, You can remove this horizontal suction filter without removing the subframe gray bar. I have successfully done it.

I will make a thread on the entire procedure including step by step images. Give me a few days...

Glad to hear you can get yours out without removing the subframe member. It's a real pain to remove.....

 

[mapper]

Does anybody know if there is some sort of thermostat that controls how much hydraulic oil flows through the radiator?
I know I usually blow a ton of seeds and dust out of the radiator stack when I brush hog, despite the screen. I made a long extension to my air gun with a 90° nozzle at the end that let's me blow debris out from the fan side of the radiator.

 

[mapper]

the GC series have one, no idea of other models do.

Compacts and up have a hydraulic radiator stacked with the engine radiator, radiator fan cools both.