making my own sub soiler

bdog · Apr 24, 2005

I am going to make a subsoiler to bury some pipe for water use around my house. We have no rocks. I have a 47hp 4wd tractor that weighs 5,000lbs. How deep do you think I can go? I was hoping around 18" but I don't know. Just curious on how long to make the shank.

gabby · Apr 24, 2005

The length of your shank will probably be limited by the lifting height of your 3ph. Make it as long as your 3ph will allow.
gabby

bdog · Apr 25, 2005

Duh - I never thought of that. Thanks for pointing out the obvious to me. Sometimes I get so caught up in an idea I forget to think about things like that.

Rch · Apr 25, 2005

bdog, make the shank ABOVE the lower control arms so ,at depth, the top link is horizontal. If the top link is angled to much the compression force can bend it. Don't ask how I know /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

rsatter22 · Apr 25, 2005

18" should be a breeze for your tractor. I am able to go to 18" with a subsoiler with a 24hp 4wd weighing 3300#.
Rick

brewdog · Dec 8, 2005

I can bury my middlebuster to 18" with my Ford 23 hp diesel compact running at 1400 rpm.

Gumby6 · Dec 9, 2005

I'd like to see pics of that when finished.

Maybe in action too, pulling that pipe. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Nasty135 · Dec 9, 2005

Brew, Maybe 18" of snow but 18" of dirt will take many passes if it will reach that deep...

OldMcDonald · Dec 9, 2005

I have fairly well sussed out the design for a twin leg one for my NH 45hp. I made a heavy duty box last year for picking up windrowed stones. I will use the box for weight. You need some to get depth, and I had originally intended to make a frame and use concrete posts and/or blocks which I have lying around, but decided the box already had a lot of weight and it can be filled with anything if more weight is necessary. I am using 20mm x 100mm as the shank - call it threequarter by 4 inch, and will weld a triangle on the bottom to replicate a curved shank, ie the bottom of the shank will be 4" in front of the main part of the shank. I will then use 3" angle iron to form wings, angled about 20º from the horizontal - just enough to give a wee bit shatter and lift. The same angle iron will be used to form the carriers for the shanks, and welded to the front of the box immediately behind the centre of each rear wheel. I will use a single hole fixing through the angle iron for the shanks. The force against the shank points will attempt to push the points backwards, but the box will prevent this happening. I will drill the fixing holes (20mm and using top link pins to hold the shanks in position) at 6" apart so that I can increase the depth by 6" at each pass. I do not think I will be able to take more than this on each pass. My maximum clearance from ground to the base of the box is 23", but by having adjustable depth shanks, I should be able to increase the subsoiling depth by pulling the shanks into the ground, raising the box to the next hole and going again. I need to subsoil in advance of planting olives and would like about 30"if I can get it. I have not yet decided whether to partially cut through the top link pins so that they will act as shear pins. Old McDonald.

bobodu · Dec 9, 2005

I welded a small sweep to the bottom of the shank for downforce.The amount of downforce is adjustable with the toplink.

OldMcDonald · Dec 10, 2005

I agree on the top link adjustment and downforce, but also like a lot of weight on implements I work deep. Can you give some details on the size and angle of the sweep? The "wings" I referred to are the same thing, but I will be guessing at their length. I thought a little more than the shank - 8" at the bottom with the shank and the triangular piece on the base, so I thought maybe 2" beyond the rear of the shank to give a total length of 10". Any comments? Old McDonald.

bobodu · Dec 10, 2005

This is what I started out with,but the "foot" on the bottom tended to accentuate any turns made by the tracot and bent that 1/2 inch steel like butter...

Here is what I ended up doing...haven't straightened it out yet...used many times just like it is though....

And here is the sweep..

brewdog · Dec 10, 2005

I put it in 4 wd and and she pulls like a team of mules.

MMM · Dec 10, 2005

You don't need implement weight, you need correct angle (you will need tractor ballast). You are talking serious horsepower to pull 1 shank 30" deep. I don't believe 45hp will do 2 of them.
Better off finding an engineered parabolic (curved) and alter to fit your tractors. They pull much easier.
Here's a link that might save a lot of DIYer's some wasted time trying to build stuff they can't pull.

Tillage hp requirements

How deep is the hardpan you're trying to bust? Best to check soil layers and only rip an inch or 2 deeper than hardpan. Not sure about Olive tree, but root system (exclude taproot) of most trees is quite shallow.

bobodu · Dec 10, 2005

Indeed....you will also find you need more traction than it seems.We used an 65 HP Oliver 1850 to pull the irrigation pipe down to about 12 inches.Any deeper in Indiana clay would send the tires spinning.Pulling a disc doesn't do that....

OldMcDonald · Dec 11, 2005

There are no used equipment sources here, that is why I have to build things myself. I have cropped the land for the last two years, and worked to a depth of about 10" with a 7 tine scarifier - it is only 1 hectare and I will be ripping just the planting lines for 277 trees. A weird number, but 6 x 6 metres spacings fits. As I said, I do not expect to get any more than an extra 6" on each pass, maybe just 3, and hopefully 4 or 5 passes will get me down. There is a hard layer at about 15 inches and maybe 4" thick (we have just installed an irrigation system and a couple of drains so were able to check that) and as long as I bust through it I will be happy, but would like more depth. It is normal in olive growing areas around the world to do this deep ripping prior to planting the trees. It helps them get roots to a good depth in a short time. I have the steel to try the job, and bringing in a contractor (not local) is estimated at €1,000 which is a lot of US$ whatever the present exchange rate is. It will be a simple matter to change to a central single leg if I cannot manage with 2 behind the wheels. I will need to wait until the soil dries in the spring before attempting it, but will post an update.

Bobodu, thanks for the pics. Old McDonald.

MMM · Dec 11, 2005

The soil should be dry enough to shatter the hard layer and not just gouge it. The problem with going deeper than needed is all tillage produces compaction due to wedge effect and putting pressure on soil underside of point. One ends up with compaction that can't be reached with that implement anymore. Being a one time deal with trees it shouldn't be a big problem. Best of luck.
I was just in Lisbon a couple months back moored under the brige looking at the big statue. Beautiful country!

DocHeb · Dec 12, 2005

Similiar techniques for deep ripping prior to planting are used for apple orchards in my area, and in vineyards in California. I remember seeing pictures on the Web of a CAT dozer pulling a 60" (1.5m) single tooth ripper through the soil before planting grape vines.

OldMcDonald · Dec 12, 2005

Yeah, I know.

But I now know that you also know, and many people do not, so that gives me confidence that anything else you post is also likely to be backed up by knowledge. Old McDonald.

sandman2234 · Dec 13, 2005

Just wondering if you put a cam type of bearing the the upper shank of a subsoiler, and spun it, creating a wobble effect, if that would allow you to increase the depth you were able to reach previously? I am suggesting something like a vibratory pipe puller. Seems like a waste to have the PTO sitting there, doing nothing while the poor tires are doing all they can to hold their own...
David from jax