m7060 engine warning 50% power reduction

[Hay Dude]

It's actually amazing how they can get away with crazy mandates like that.

The guy that sold it to me was devastated. At the time he was explaining it to me, I didnt fully understand the impact. I remember amazing deals on trucks, backhoes, etc.
If this petty little tyrant running PA does same, Im toast

 

[grsthegreat]

i have a buddy that used to have a trucking company in california. (small) with 5 trucks and 5 drivers. he delivered drywall between nevada and calif. After the tier IV mandates came into effect, he had to shut down his company and lay everyone off. trucks were too old to sell for much $$ and new trucks would not be financially workable for the small profit margin he was getting.

just another way calif helps the small business owner.

By the way, i wired the house for the owner of Buck knives after he moved his company lock, stock and barrel out of california due to their predatory business practices. He had such good things to say about calif.

 

[rScotty]

Now will you 壮cuse me while I unbox this Chinese solar panel?

Made by One-Hung-Loe industries no doubt. Guaranteed to expire as soon as the warranty expires and will be in a landfill before you know it.....lol

Until tree huggers and environmentalists get their heads out of their poop chutes, I'll never buy into T4 anything or electric cars, trucks tractors or anything else while China continues to use high sulfur coal (a bunch comes from us btw) and quit polluting the water and air and quit unleashing virus' on humanity, then I might recognize the green crap but not until. Won't happen in my lifetime so I'll keep on making soot and liking it just fine... In fact, when I throttle up any of my diesel engine and they smoke, it makes me feel good I'm doing my part along with China in causing atmospheric harm. They don't care, neither do I. Same way when my steers fart, I know the methane is causing issues to some tree hugger somewhere. I like it.

Kinda childish, but I agree with most of that. Looking at the larger picture, there have got to be lots of ways to lower pollution. The technology that got adopted isn't the one I would have chosen. It's too short sighted, too simplistic, poorly designed & poorly implemented. Crappy technology and crappy politics too. I wish someone would stand up and get it right.

There has just got to be a simple way to add on some device to enable older machinery to be productive longer. If there was, I imagine most people would do that. Regardless of cost it would be cheaper than replacing everything like we are doing now.

But whether they got it right or wrong, I am still glad there are people out there making an effort to work on the problem. Just because I think they got the solutions wrong doesn't mean I'm not glad that they are at least trying to clean up the air, water, and ground. Anyone living in a town can see it in the air. Also being near any body of water - ranging from little steams, lakes, or the seashore - you don't need to look very hard to see problems that need to be fixed.

Sometimes I just take a trip and look around. Basically a lot of too much trash in the ground and pollution in ground and air - and most of it caused by pure old "me and mine" selfishness. Remember the old days when peope threw trash out the car window? I'm half ashamed to say that where I grew up the ignorant ones still do.

As for California, not sure I'd agree there, though because I got to see it first hand. For several generations my family spent half the year up and down the west coast doing farm work there. Great memories right after WWII and through the 50s & 60s of families working out there doing field and harvest work. After which we would go home to fish and run hounds until Fall came around again. An ideal life it seemed, at least until this new wave of Spanish-speaking immigrants working for less $$ took all our jobs away. Still, from what I remember the farmers out there from Washington state down to middle of California seemed pretty much like farmers anywhere else. They had the same concerns but were lots richer, of course. And with better climate and land. Maybe having generally good crops was why they were able to see the pollution problems early on. Where crops are more marginal, there are people who still don't see the problems. Even worse, a few are too self-centered to care.

But that's changing. We will probably get it right eventually.
rScotty

 

[Hay Dude]

Kinda childish, but I agree with most of that. Looking at the larger picture, there have got to be lots of ways to lower pollution. The technology that got adopted isn't the one I would have chosen. It's too short sighted, too simplistic, poorly designed & poorly implemented. Crappy technology and crappy politics too. I wish someone would stand up and get it right.

There has just got to be a simple way to add on some device to enable older machinery to be productive longer. If there was, I imagine most people would do that. Regardless of cost it would be cheaper than replacing everything like we are doing now.

But whether they got it right or wrong, I am still glad there are people out there making an effort to work on the problem. Just because I think they got the solutions wrong doesn't mean I'm not glad that they are at least trying to clean up the air, water, and ground. Anyone living in a town can see it in the air. Also being near any body of water - ranging from little steams, lakes, or the seashore - you don't need to look very hard to see problems that need to be fixed.

Sometimes I just take a trip and look around. Basically a lot of too much trash in the ground and pollution in ground and air - and most of it caused by pure old "me and mine" selfishness. Remember the old days when peope threw trash out the car window? I'm half ashamed to say that where I grew up the ignorant ones still do.

As for California, not sure I'd agree there, though because I got to see it first hand. For several generations my family spent half the year up and down the west coast doing farm work there. Great memories right after WWII and through the 50s & 60s of families working out there doing field and harvest work. After which we would go home to fish and run hounds until Fall came around again. An ideal life it seemed, at least until this new wave of Spanish-speaking immigrants working for less $$ took all our jobs away. Still, from what I remember the farmers out there from Washington state down to middle of California seemed pretty much like farmers anywhere else. They had the same concerns but were lots richer, of course. And with better climate and land. Maybe having generally good crops was why they were able to see the pollution problems early on. Where crops are more marginal, there are people who still don't see the problems. Even worse, a few are too self-centered to care.

But that's changing. We will probably get it right eventually.
rScotty

So I think most of us can see, no matter where you are in the political spectrum that there is a massive shift in the US towards globalism.
If that is the case, why is there SO much pressure on meaningless “little people” like me to give up their ways of life for a cleaner environment, but when it comes to China, crickets on their skies turning black and their rivers orange to line the pockets of the communist party?
Why do we have to join Paris Accords increasing fuel prices, yet China, who is a member, gets all the benefits of selling their garbage to the rest of the world while polluting the entire world?

 

[RickB]

1. Because we enhance our standard of living by being able to buy cheaply made goods for far less than it would cost to make them here under our regulations, standards and labor costs. The Walmart Syndrome.
2. Because the profits they enjoy are used to finance our exploding public debt. Who else would buy it?
Actually you are observing a classic example of NIMBY, only on a global scale.
It is far too convenient and for some, profitable to turn a blind eye on how things are done on the other side of the world.

 

[JethroB]

1. Because we enhance our standard of living by being able to buy cheaply made goods for far less than it would cost to make them here under our regulations, standards and labor costs. The Walmart Syndrome.
2. Because the profits they enjoy are used to finance our exploding public debt. Who else would buy it?
Actually you are observing a classic example of NIMBY, only on a global scale.
It is far too convenient and for some, profitable to turn a blind eye on how things are done on the other side of the world.

My thoughts exactly but much more eloquently stated. I dont get the satisfaction some get out of belching diesel or rolling coal. Even a dog knows not to crap in his own yard.

 

[Hay Dude]

My thoughts exactly but much more eloquently stated. I dont get the satisfaction some get out of belching diesel or rolling coal. Even a dog knows not to crap in his own yard.

No I dont want or do that crap, either. But Im sickened from seeing experienced, hard working people being shamed or bankrupted for buying tier 3 equipment then being force to sell it at a great loss.
Easy for news media elites to pick on a American farmer, or construction company owner. Not so easy to pick on the chinese communist party is a better reason.
Theyre too scared to pick on the Chinese. And quite honestly, theyre probably being propped up or funded by them, so they cant.

 

[rScotty]

So I think most of us can see, no matter where you are in the political spectrum that there is a massive shift in the US towards globalism.
If that is the case, why is there SO much pressure on meaningless little people like me to give up their ways of life for a cleaner environment, but when it comes to China, crickets on their skies turning black and their rivers orange to line the pockets of the communist party?
Why do we have to join Paris Accords increasing fuel prices, yet China, who is a member, gets all the benefits of selling their garbage to the rest of the world while polluting the entire world?

I think you are right about the shift to Globalism regardless of where one is on the political spectrum. I guess I was thinking the same, but didn't even realize it myself. Thanks for pointing it out.

Of course there is a lot of resistance too - and that's necessary - but I think that ultimately the shift to Globalism is going to win out because of two things...
One is that the internet of course. Even here on TBN we have members posting from all over the world & I think we enjoy that.
The second reason is that the young people seem to tend to be more global than us oldsters. It will be their world shortly, and they clearly favor globalism.

As for what happens to us little people versus what happens to China.... I hear you that it can be unfair. But ultimately globalism will hit there too and for the same reasons it hit here. Until it does, that Chinese farmer has a pretty hard life and frankly I don't envy him one bit.
Plus China has got a big demographic problem as a result of their "1 child per couple" policy that will be coming down on them shortly anyway. It's the worst kind of disaster to their way of life and looks unavoidable. I doubt their system will survive it.

As far as the restrictions all these enviro-regulations put on us little people personally in our everyday little life, it's a minor irritant but I find I don't much mind. Regulations may do some good, probably not much harm, and experience has taught me that with a little effort most folks will figure out a way to work around the worst of the restrictions anyway. Right now we do it with older machinery, creative financing, or my favorite: by drowning the paper pushers with replies to their own paperwork. Whatever form it takes, history shows us restrictive laws always ends up making us little people smarter and the gov't look foolish. I doubt this time will be any different.
rScotty

 

[Hay Dude]

I think you are right about the shift to Globalism regardless of where one is on the political spectrum. I guess I was thinking the same, but didn't even realize it myself. Thanks for pointing it out.

Of course there is a lot of resistance too - and that's necessary - but I think that ultimately the shift to Globalism is going to win out because of two things...
One is that the internet of course. Even here on TBN we have members posting from all over the world & I think we enjoy that.
The second reason is that the young people seem to tend to be more global than us oldsters. It will be their world shortly, and they clearly favor globalism.

As for what happens to us little people versus what happens to China.... I hear you that it can be unfair. But ultimately globalism will hit there too and for the same reasons it hit here. Until it does, that Chinese farmer has a pretty hard life and frankly I don't envy him one bit.
Plus China has got a big demographic problem as a result of their "1 child per couple" policy that will be coming down on them shortly anyway. It's the worst kind of disaster to their way of life and looks unavoidable. I doubt their system will survive it.

As far as the restrictions all these enviro-regulations put on us little people personally in our everyday little life, it's a minor irritant but I find I don't much mind. Regulations may do some good, probably not much harm, and experience has taught me that with a little effort most folks will figure out a way to work around the worst of the restrictions anyway. Right now we do it with older machinery, creative financing, or my favorite: by drowning the paper pushers with replies to their own paperwork. Whatever form it takes, history shows us restrictive laws always ends up making us little people smarter and the gov't look foolish. I doubt this time will be any different.
rScotty

It will do a LOT of harm if the regulations are unreasonable or unduly harsh. Let me tell you something, there are 10’s of THOUSANDS of government regulators in DC, just writing regulations and bills for congress to pass to suppress us more and more each day. These little buggers have no idea what its like to have a significant portion of your yearly earnings ripped away.
We are NOT the polluter we used to be.
Remember WOTUS? I had some snot nose kid in a PA DEPT of whatever truck on one of my farms telling me how I cant farm where there was a puddle in field. :confused2: We don’t need that nonsense. :thumbdown:
As far as the globalism goes, Im not talking about global internet connections with people in other countries. Im talking about other countries governments bringing their oppressive government tactics and regulations HERE. Thats the globalism I speak of. What works in China doesnt work here. I don’t want any of their oppressive government influence here. My kids are going to have enough of a mess to clean up, they dont need more from over there. We don’t need their AOC/China limits on Children, cars, whatever. We MUST keep our freedoms.
Lets get tier 4 running correctly before we even start talking about tier 5

 

[rScotty]

It will do a LOT of harm if the regulations are unreasonable or unduly harsh. Let me tell you something, there are 10’s of THOUSANDS of government regulators in DC, just writing regulations and bills for congress to pass to suppress us more and more each day. These little buggers have no idea what its like to have a significant portion of your yearly earnings ripped away.
We are NOT the polluter we used to be.
Remember WOTUS? I had some snot nose kid in a PA DEPT of whatever truck on one of my farms telling me how I cant farm where there was a puddle in field. :confused2: We don’t need that nonsense. :thumbdown:
As far as the globalism goes, Im not talking about global internet connections with people in other countries. Im talking about other countries governments bringing their oppressive government tactics and regulations HERE. Thats the globalism I speak of. What works in China doesnt work here. I don’t want any of their oppressive government influence here. My kids are going to have enough of a mess to clean up, they dont need more from over there. We don’t need their AOC/China limits on Children, cars, whatever. We MUST keep our freedoms.
Lets get tier 4 running correctly before we even start talking about tier 5

Well, That's Fine. The truth is us grown up people with all our supposed wisdom can rail, wave our hands, and shout all day about whether we want the world to lean more toward globalism or not, but for those of us born after the year 2000 our opinions hardly matter. The world will belong to the young, and the need for more global co-operation is one thing they all seem to agree on.

We can either figure out how to get along with or maybe even help with their vision of the future, or sit back and suffer indigestion.
rScotty

 

[Smokeydog]

I’m all for clean air, water and a better way. Most of us are on the same page. What’s lacking is the net improvement of the tier steps information. Extra fuel and maintenance creates more pollution somewhere. Even electric cars have a tailpipe somewhere. There use to be better accountability. There have been great improvements in fuel formulas to reduce lead and sulfur emissions. Engine fuel efficiency and oil consumption improvements. All well documented, investigated, presented and accepted. Some of new policies are more based on activism change than science based improvements. Corporate farming can shoulder the burden better by economy of scale, lobbyist, and legalese. Smaller operations become “environmentally taxed” at a higher rate which benefits bigger farms. Maybe that’s the goal.
Show me the evidence where under 100hp tractors are still causing significant pollution and how meeting new regulations is improving the environment. Most of us average 1-200hours a year! I can take the medicine if helps me or us be healthier but don’t need drugs to numb my brain.
Sorry for soapboxing on the OP’s topic.

 

[moship]

What was the OP's original question/concern?

 

[5030]

My thoughts exactly but much more eloquently stated. I dont get the satisfaction some get out of belching diesel or rolling coal. Even a dog knows not to crap in his own yard.

But they do anyway, so what?

 

[JethroB]

No I dont want or do that crap, either. But Im sickened from seeing experienced, hard working people being shamed or bankrupted for buying tier 3 equipment then being force to sell it at a great loss.
.

I was not aware that was going on, well except for maybe the Left coast. Is that an issue in your area? No jibe or foul intended. Here in the deep rural south surrounded by planted pines and row crops nobody fusses about older equipment, well other than the cost or complexity of replacing it after a well earned retirement.

 

[rScotty]

I was not aware that was going on, well except for maybe the Left coast. Is that an issue in your area? No jibe or foul intended. Here in the deep rural south surrounded by planted pines and row crops nobody fusses about older equipment, well other than the cost or complexity of replacing it after a well earned retirement.

I'm thinking the same thing. I haven't seen it either. Sort of sounds like a rumor to me. But like you say, no jib or foul intended.

Using older equipment isn't an issue here in the Western states either. Nobody cares. If you want to, just fix it up and use it. That's even true of cars and trucks. They just have to have whatever they originally came with. Many old ones had no pollution controls at all and that's OK too. Now maybe that's not true on the Left coast, but I don't personally know. Some row crop and orchard farmers I do know in California use older tractors - 1970 vintage - and they haven't mentioned any problem.
rScotty

 

[Hay Dude]

I was told tailpipe emissions from automobiles in down 90% from the 1970s.
In my heart, I believe the amount of pollution is down significantly.
ZERO emissions is ridiculous for farm and construction machinery.
Nobody can afford it. The planet WILL survive.

 

[rScotty]

I was told tailpipe emissions from automobiles in down 90% from the 1970s.
In my heart, I believe the amount of pollution is down significantly.
ZERO emissions is ridiculous for farm and construction machinery.
Nobody can afford it. The planet WILL survive.

Yes, the pollution today is completely different from the choking chemical smog big cities had in 1970's.

Nobody can argue that it's an improvement. Anyone can see, smell, and taste the difference. Look at old photographs. I can remember days we got close enough to see the city and just turned around and went home rather than drive into Denver.

It doesn't make sense to put same level of pollution control on rural tractors.
Maybe it does for construction machinery working in a city.

Still, we had to do something and pretty darn quickly too. The problem was that bad. It was terrible and now it's much improved.
So in spite of the screw-ups we got the important part right. Now we just need to unscrew the parts that didn't work.
rScotty

 

[5030]

The major source of pollution today is the carbon dioxide emanating from the mouths of do nothing politicians....:laughing:

 

[Hay Dude]

I was not aware that was going on, well except for maybe the Left coast. Is that an issue in your area? No jibe or foul intended. Here in the deep rural south surrounded by planted pines and row crops nobody fusses about older equipment, well other than the cost or complexity of replacing it after a well earned retirement.

No not in my area yet, but unfortunately CA is all too often the first state to employ these oppressive tactics and then some other states follow. It is revealing to see companies like Tesla and HP and others from California's oppressive regulations and taxes to states much more reasonable and business. These green, high tax politicians dont get it, it doesnt work and it never will.
People have limits to these insane levels of oppressive tactics and they, along with companies, vote with their wallets.
In your " deep rural south " people still pretty much leave each other alone. Im stuck in the middle. My town is basically steeped in traditional old school American values with a LOT of city liberals buying up all the available real estate. Theyre in the process of ruining the schools and local government.

 

[rScotty]

No not in my area yet, but unfortunately CA is all too often the first state to employ these oppressive tactics and then some other states follow. It is revealing to see companies like Tesla and HP and others from California's oppressive regulations and taxes to states much more reasonable and business. These green, high tax politicians dont get it, it doesnt work and it never will.
People have limits to these insane levels of oppressive tactics and they, along with companies, vote with their wallets.
In your " deep rural south " people still pretty much leave each other alone. Im stuck in the middle. My town is basically steeped in traditional old school American values with a LOT of city liberals buying up all the available real estate. Theyre in the process of ruining the schools and local government.

Whoa.....lets back up a step here. We started by talking about older pre-emissions tractors and field equipment....But do we actually know that California has made laws against using that older tractors & equipment? I haven't heard anything on that.

As for taxes, I did look into that, and frankly for the average guy they don't seem all that high for what people get in return. Especially so compared to where I live. Maybe we ought to ask some Californians, there may be more to this. After all, it's their state. Not mine.

It's a sad thing about today's news and stories being so biased. I don't like to be cynical, but opinions are so emotionally loaded these days that I'm thinking something needs to change. Since it's most probably me who needs to change, I'm going to start right now to put the same effort into forming opinions as expressing them. That just makes common sense. Keep things neutral until I've had time to check into the facts & think about both sides.

Shucks, on this old equipment discussion we haven't yet heard anyone from California weigh in.
For all we know, this whole thing about California not allowing people to use older pre-emissions equipment may just be another social media/political rumor.

rScotty