M59 Discussion Thread

[rScotty]

This is to followup on our earlier discussion of towing the M59.
o I used a Sherline scale to adjust the hitch weight to 1400 or so; would have been difficult to get this right otherwise. A weight distributing hitch is obviously essential for a bumper hitch towing this weight.

TBarD, thanks for the trailer and truck info. It seems like a fair number of M59s get bought with towing in mind.
I'm not familiar with that type of scale and would like to know more. Is it common? I'd also be interested to know more about the weight distributing hitch you chose.
rScotty

 

[lhansman]

Congratulation TbarD. I'm glad you got the M59 up into the mountains. I'm curious as to why you had the hoe sitting on the trailer rather then on the factory hook. Is there a particular reason why you travelled that way? I always travel with mine hooked and the pin to keep the boom from swinging in place.

I have used a weight distributing hitch on my 30 foot travel trailer but I have never used it with my 14,000 pound dumper and I have had it full to capacity many times. I find the dumper with either the L45 or a load of fill in it tows just fine without a weight distributing hitch.

I have the tires loaded with 932 pounds of foam on the L45 now and the cab is at the dealers so hopefully in a couple of weeks I'll load it into the dumper and go down to the provincial scale on a Sunday morning and spend some time testing different loading methods and see how much weight they put on the truck versus the trailer.

Regards,

Lauren

 

[TBarD]

Hmm... Didn't realize there was followup here, normally the forum sends me and email when there are new postings.

TBarD, thanks for the trailer and truck info. It seems like a fair number of M59s get bought with towing in mind.
I'm not familiar with that type of scale and would like to know more. Is it common? I'd also be interested to know more about the weight distributing hitch you chose.
rScotty

The Sherline scale was developed just for the purpose of measuring trailer tongue weight. Very simple: a pin drives into the body of the scale, which contains hydraulic oil. A gauge on the side measures the pressure. Here is a link on Amazon:

Amazon.com: Sherline LM 2000 - Trailer Tongue Weight Scale 2000lb: Home Improvement

I put this on top of a hydraulic jack and lifted the trailer tongue until it would clear the hitch ball and could then directly read out the tongue weight.

I got my weight distributing hitch from etrailer.com and installed it myself. It is a Reese rated for 15K trailer weight and 1500 lbs hitch weight. In my first test drive with the trailer loaded the truck front end was too light, resulting in a boat through the waves type of oscillation on every undulation of the road - shortening the chains on the trunnion bars a link fixed this by transferring more weight to the front axle.

 

[Charlesaf3]

Thank you for the link to the sherlone, I need one of those! Guessing is not cutting it.

Havent towed the m59 yet, but I went the route of 14k deck over from Pequea, timbrens on the truck. Curt weight distributing hitch.

I don't understand the need for exhaust braking? Granted I'm not in Colorado, but the trailer brakes can stop the truck.... Truck brakes actually work less with the trailer attached.

I got a 20 foot trailer. It's too short. 24 would have been better....

My brake controller runs off my brake lines. It's simply amazing, and well worth the extra money, have a look at my thread on it

 

[TBarD]

Congratulation TbarD. I'm glad you got the M59 up into the mountains. I'm curious as to why you had the hoe sitting on the trailer rather then on the factory hook. Is there a particular reason why you travelled that way? I always travel with mine hooked and the pin to keep the boom from swinging in place.

Lowering and securing the hoe bucket is a DOT requirement here for heavy equipment. However checking into this a bit more it appears that this is not required for machines less than 10K which use a pin or whatever to mechanically secure the attachment. So I guess one could go either way, however with the hoe up and stowed it would stick up over 12 feet when on the trailer, which is worrisome.

Regarding the weight distributing hitch, I definitely needed it for this tow with all the weight I had on the front of the trailer (400 lb forks and 850 lb grading scraper). With just the tractor the tongue weight could be reduced and it might not be needed, with some risk of a sway oscillation of course. I don't use the WD hitch with lighter loads but I don't think I will try to tow the tractor 700 miles without it. Also I don't think with this weight it is legal here without the WD hitch.

 

[TBarD]

I don't understand the need for exhaust braking? Granted I'm not in Colorado, but the trailer brakes can stop the truck.... Truck brakes actually work less with the trailer attached.

I got a 20 foot trailer. It's too short. 24 would have been better....

My brake controller runs off my brake lines. It's simply amazing, and well worth the extra money, have a look at my thread on it

Without the exhaust brake there is a real risk of overheating the truck+trailer brakes and going out of control while descending a steep mountain pass with 14K pushing the truck and a sharp curve at the bottom. Even without that however, the exhaust brake greatly reduces the need to use your truck or truck+trailer mechanical brakes, reducing wear and tear - it will pay for itself eventually. Plus it helps the truck to warm up on a cold morning, a particular issue here in Colorado; the ECM activates the exhaust brake at idle when the temperature is below some set limit. I am finding the EB useful even for 4wheeling, descending steep grades on 4-low.

I agree, 24 foot trailer would be better for the M59 than my 22!

Thanks for the tip on the brake controller. I have not heard of one that runs off the brake lines, sounds interesting.

 

[Charlesaf3]

Without the exhaust brake there is a real risk of overheating the truck+trailer brakes and going out of control while descending a steep mountain pass with 14K pushing the truck and a sharp curve at the bottom. Even without that however, the exhaust brake greatly reduces the need to use your truck or truck+trailer mechanical brakes, reducing wear and tear - it will pay for itself eventually. Plus it helps the truck to warm up on a cold morning, a particular issue here in Colorado; the ECM activates the exhaust brake at idle when the temperature is below some set limit. I am finding the EB useful even for 4wheeling, descending steep grades on 4-low.

I agree, 24 foot trailer would be better for the M59 than my 22!

Thanks for the tip on the brake controller. I have not heard of one that runs off the brake lines, sounds interesting.

Yeah, I used to live in Denver, I can picture going through some of those passes and wanting every brake conceivable. Frankly, I'm not sure I'd tow it through those, hairy enough in just a car...

Cool thing about the controller - I'm blanking on.name, is it gives the trailer ABS. How? Goes off the pressure in brake lines, so when that pulses, so do trailer brakes. Simply awesome.

I learned of it on TBN of course!

I have friends who are moving to Durango, btw, are you in that neck of the woods? I'm looking forward to getting the chance to visit them

 

[TBarD]

Spent the day with the M59 digging up the 200 amp power line to the barn site (while live!), unfortunately it has to be moved over to make room for the work to come. Having it in conduit makes this much easier.

I have friends who are moving to Durango, btw, are you in that neck of the woods? I'm looking forward to getting the chance to visit them

It's not all that far as the crow flies, but with the San Juan mountain range in between it is a long drive around.

 

[lwm]

Hi, lurker here, currently I have a Kubota B21 (nice little tractor) and I'm looking to add a M59. I'm looking for TLB w/ thumb, forks, grapple, box scraper, and scraper blade to maintain my 15 acres and help my neighbor (who has 385 acres).

The new prices are a little scary, I priced a TLB + thumb + front remote + 3 spool at $72,000 here in California (includes about $6500 tax).

The used market seems not so much, I've been watching craigslist etc and these rarely come up for sale. Anyone know of any for sale?

Thanks, seems like a nice tractor!

 

[Piston]

I admit those M59's are nice, real nice! But ill be damned if they're 70k dollars nice! I think kubota is a little proud at that price.

 

[lwm]

I admit those M59's are nice, real nice! But ill be damned if they're 70k dollars nice! I think kubota is a little proud at that price.

Yeah, I agree. I've been looking at low hour used ones but they are hard to find, nobody wants to sell. Another member found me a demo with 20 hours, thumb, 3 spool T&T for $62K and I'm looking hard at that.

 

[ultrarunner]

I had looked at one and decided to see what I could find similar and landed on a Deere 110 that I found for sale locally...

For me it was more of a want for some specific projects than an ongoing need...

 

[TBarD]

Hi, lurker here, currently I have a Kubota B21 (nice little tractor) and I'm looking to add a M59. I'm looking for TLB w/ thumb, forks, grapple, box scraper, and scraper blade to maintain my 15 acres and help my neighbor (who has 385 acres).

The new prices are a little scary, I priced a TLB + thumb + front remote + 3 spool at $72,000 here in California (includes about $6500 tax).

The used market seems not so much, I've been watching craigslist etc and these rarely come up for sale. Anyone know of any for sale?

Thanks, seems like a nice tractor!

At the price of the new ones I would definitely be looking for a good used one with low hours (which I did a while back, to get mine). I doubt anything high end like this would show up on craigslist - the place to look is machinertrader.com, tractorhouse.com, ironplanet (under farm tractors), and so forth. Just checked and a few show up. One can get a tractor this size shipped across country for $2k or so - I used uship.com to ship from Alabama to NM and it worked out very well. So a national search would be in order. A while back I saw a good one go on the ironplanet auction site for a very good price; some guy up in Alaska bought it and presumably had it shipped. The older ones (2008/9) often come with a lot of the options standard, like front/rear aux hydraulics, 3pt, lights etc. (all expensive options on the new ones these days). On mine I added the rear thumb and replaced a twisted front quick attach and it was as good as new.

Of course, if nothing shows up after a while, an L45/L48 would probably work well too.

 

[Piston]

Iwm,
Did you have any luck with finding an M59?


If they end up offering the M59 with a factory cab, I could see my father and I selling the 410 backhoe we have, and my tractor, and purchasing a cab M59 if the price wasn't too out of line. It seems like the one "CUT" sized tractor that has enough lift capacity that I would be happy with, plus the benefit of strong hydraulics. Only thing is, it would need more PTO hp for me. :confused3: Even with all those features, I can't see anywhere near 70 grand for one though.

 

[Charlesaf3]

It says something that those of us who have one don't have any urge to sell it..

Mine is still going strong, 1000 hours, one of the first ones

 

[lwm]

Iwm,
Did you have any luck with finding an M59?
Even with all those features, I can't see anywhere near 70 grand for one though.

To the first part, not yet but I'm working on it. Roger found me one in Colorado that is new (20 hours) at the dealer, $62K with bucket, backhoe, thumb, extra remote on the loader and OEM 3 spool top and tilt.

Roger pointed me at these guys Texoma Utility Equipment because he's getting parts from them at a good price, I made a tactical error yesterday in telling them the Colorado price and they came in $1000 less. I prolly should have fibbed and said it was $60K and seen if they could beat that but I hate playing that game.

The same thing here in California was $72K (though that includes over $6K in tax that isn't in the other bids. The other prices don't include shipping and I expect that to be about $2K or so.

I'm inclined to go to the local dealers and see if they'll beat either of the other bids. If I could get one of them to go $60K, that's about $65K w/ tax which isn't that far off from the delivered price. If you have any suggestions on how to do that and make it work, let me know.

 

[Piston]

Iwm,

60k seems like a good price for a new M59. It's a whole lot better than 72

I wish I knew of where you could find them cheaper, but I think it's just the way it is. They're expensive for a reason, there is a lot of equipment packed into that package!

 

[case245]

did you folks consider a tool carrier from case its basic backhoe with a 3pt hitch they can lift 6000ibs at the front bucket but they weigh in at 15k hey are around 70k

 

[rScotty]

did you folks consider a tool carrier from case its basic backhoe with a 3pt hitch they can lift 6000ibs at the front bucket but they weigh in at 15k hey are around 70k

Don't know about other folks, but we sure did. Glad you brought it up. The Case was on our short list and it finally came down to a choice between the Case and Kubota. The Case was 50% more money, but had twice the muscle and hey, this was going to be our final tractor.

Five years later I have to say that the extra 2 feet of BH reach on the Case would be nice, but I suspect that has been offset by the M59's maneuverability and lighter weight. Having lived on rural acreage for more than half a century we know there are more small and medium jobs than large ones. The M59 has an exceptionally tight turning radius and can get into a smaller space. As for FEL lifting ability, the M59 will drive around with a ton and a half in the bucket. We haven't found a use for more than that. Others might.

One thing about the Case is that the quality is something you notice immediately and everywhere. We were just amazed at the high quality of materials, fit, and finish. That came close to selling us right there. The Kubota is nicely thought out and well built, but the Case takes that to a whole different level. Awesome. Although in fairness I'd say that for having a delicate touch on the FEL and BH controls the edge might go to Kubota.

In the end, we felt that we would get more daily use out of the smaller, lighter, more maneuverable M59. There's no way to know if that has been true or not, but it sure gets lots of use. Two days ago I was down at the creek using the BH and thumb at full extension to lift out two waterlogged trees that had been swept against the culverts by a flood,.... and wondering if the Case could have even gotten down there given the tight squeeze and uncertain ground. And that got me to thinking again about the Case, its cab, and the luxurious quality.

As for muscle, it surprised me but that turned out to be a non-issue. Both machines have way more than enough.
rScotty

 

[mike69440]

Iwm,

60k seems like a good price for a new M59. It's a whole lot better than 72

I wish I knew of where you could find them cheaper, but I think it's just the way it is. They're expensive for a reason, there is a lot of equipment packed into that package!

Overall the TLB line from Kubota is fairly decent, but I can see some areas where the machine would benefit greatly if just a bit more robust.

I知 sure convinced themselves that the TLB line is commercial duty, but that痴 controlled condition test lab, vs real world abuse.

I would think that for $55K another manufacturer could offer an M59 sized TLB that could outperform the M59. The M59 has a few areas where there just is not enough meat in the thing. Adding just another 600-1,00lbs of metal in the right spots would make it a true industrial commercial machine. For what Kubota is asking, the machine could be a bit more robust.

Some parts of the frame, the loader and bucket are going to take a beating with a few thousand hours of use. The pin diameters and bearing areas of the pivot points are going to get hammered out to fast from heavy use. It would not take much to put in grease seals to hold the grease & minimize contaminants, A 12.5" wide tire in front would be nice for flotation. Guards and Sid plates are too thin.

When you drop that much coin for a machine, you hope that the thing is built for the long haul.

For landowner farm and small commercial work, a Full size TLB is too heavy in soft ground and Mud, so a machine in the 10,000 lb range definitely has a place.