M59 Discussion Thread

[rScotty]

Well I hate to say it but mine is back in the shop. It would not start with seat in rearward postion (just the seat switch)

That explains that mysterious switch. After raising the seat, the switch didn't engage...but didn't seem to do anything. Now I know.

Yes, it is normal for the main boom to move very slowly just before latching. Almost seems like Kubota has a large spring in the system and it is pushing against it.
rScotty

 

[rScotty]

have any of you owners figured out how much fuel you burn yet?

Interesting question. It has a lot to do with how you use them. When I had smaller gear drive compacts like the 16 hp Yanmar with direct injection I tended to work at a high idle with brief blasts at road speed to dump or to speed up the loader. Working that way a gallon of diesel would easily last all day - or longer. Then I got a medium size 30 HP Yanmar with indirect injection and power steering plus a fancier transmission I'd use maybe 3 gallons a day working in the same manner. But I got more than 3x the work done in a working day

But on the M59 I don't know yet. It does so much more than a 30 hp tractor can do that it isn't quite apples to apples. One thing I do know is that I can burn an astonishing large amount of diesel if I work the M59 hard - especially if I work it hard with the autothrottle system on. Wouldn't be surprised to burn a gallon or two an hour in those conditions. I use it this way for difficult conditions like doing a lot of loader work or when plowing snow in 4wd.

On the other hand, if I am just doing moderate loader work and slow delicate backhoe work I turn the autothrottle off, regulate the engine speed with the hand throttle, and regulate the engine load with the hydrostatic pedal. Economy mode. Set up that way with the autothrottle off the M59 motor spends a lot of time loafing and working at idle RPM. It still gets a lot of work done easily, but it also gets tremendous fuel mileage..I'm guessing it to be about half a gallon per hour at my much slower and more relaxed work rate. When working in economy mode the only time I bump the throttle off idle is when climbing a hill or going somewhere in high gear.
rScotty

 

[Charlesaf3]

Interesting question. It has a lot to do with how you use them. When I had smaller gear drive compacts like the 16 hp Yanmar with direct injection I tended to work at a high idle with brief blasts at road speed to dump or to speed up the loader. Working that way a gallon of diesel would easily last all day - or longer. Then I got a medium size 30 HP Yanmar with indirect injection and power steering plus a fancier transmission I'd use maybe 3 gallons a day working in the same manner. But I got more than 3x the work done in a working day

But on the M59 I don't know yet. It does so much more than a 30 hp tractor can do that it isn't quite apples to apples. One thing I do know is that I can burn an astonishing large amount of diesel if I work the M59 hard - especially if I work it hard with the autothrottle system on. Wouldn't be surprised to burn a gallon or two an hour in those conditions. I use it this way for difficult conditions like doing a lot of loader work or when plowing snow in 4wd.

On the other hand, if I am just doing moderate loader work and slow delicate backhoe work I turn the autothrottle off, regulate the engine speed with the hand throttle, and regulate the engine load with the hydrostatic pedal. Economy mode. Set up that way with the autothrottle off the M59 motor spends a lot of time loafing and working at idle RPM. It still gets a lot of work done easily, but it also gets tremendous fuel mileage..I'm guessing it to be about half a gallon per hour at my much slower and more relaxed work rate. When working in economy mode the only time I bump the throttle off idle is when climbing a hill or going somewhere in high gear.
rScotty

SOunds right to me. Though I do find auto-throttle a help with keeping consumption down - I set it to 1200 rpm, and let it boost when needed.

 

[Charlesaf3]

on removing the backhoe - did it, surprisingly easy. Though putting on the 3pt stuff does take some time and a small wrench - not sure I love the captured and bolted pins that the 3pt mounts to compared to the standard pin set up, but no biggie.

I'm psyched to try out the top and tilt with a back blade on the m59.

 

[rScotty]

Well, we've all had the M59 long enough to get familiar with them. I used to fill the loader bucket and do my smoothing work in Low range, and then shift to High range to get to where I was taking the load. Never did use the Mid range much. But shifting ranges in the M59 is not one of its strong points, and it got so I was dreading the shift. So the other day I changed to just leaving it in the Mid range for all the shuttle work between job and nearby dirt.....leaving it in Mid range and shifting between fast and slow with the split shifting stalk on the steering column. To my surprise, this worked out better. The slow (turtle) in Mid range is low geared enough to fill the loader bucket quite nicely, and the fast (rabbit) selection is good enough for short shuttles. I'm thinking that this method fits my use of the tractor better than the previous method.
So what range are the rest of you using?
rscotty

 

[Charlesaf3]

I actually use Mid almost all the time, unless I'm doing ground work with a blade or box or such.

I have found shifting gets much easier as you do it - it "breaks in" and is actually quite easy now. I did use the clutch to shift at first, don't know if that might help

 

[rScotty]

As it passed a hundred hour mark and got the service, which cancelled the reminder on the readout. Nothing done on the engine except oil, but after a couple of weeks it now seems like the M59 is running slightly better & getting noticibly better fuel economy....of course it could simply be imagination.

But it has me wondering if there could be some sort of software switch in the computer control that changed something at 100 hrs?
rscotty

 

[rScotty]

Say, I want to be able to do my own maintenace from now on....and am curious what engine oil is everyone using? I've always used Shell Rotella T 15W-40 in diesels as a sort of general solution, but after reading the M59 manual I can see that this motor has different and special requirements due to the low sulphur engine with turbo and external EGR.

In a nutshell, Kubota only allows CF or CI-4. All the other C series F/G/H/J dash 4 types are specifically disallowed. That lets the Shell out. So what is left? What are you using?
rScotty

 

[Charlesaf3]

Hmm. I purchased Valvoline premium for it - mechanic is coming over to do it tomorrow - but will now double check the codes.

Didn't notice a change at 100 myself, but no surprise if things brake in a bit.

 

[rScotty]

Charles: "Hmm. I purchased Valvoline premium for it - mechanic is coming over to do it tomorrow - but will now double check the codes."

What did you decide to do aboutthe Kubota spec in the owner's manual (pg 71 in mine). It says that CJ-4 type oil is specifically not allowed becasuse of the filter type on the M59...and CF-4, CG-4 and CH-4 cannot be used in engines with external EGR valves. That only allows oils that are CF or CI-4.

Most of the diesel oils have API based "CF" type ratings which were pretty much constant for years when engines were basic and crude oil was consistent. Now the advent of synthetics, higher RPM, different types of ash causing different filter loading, and especially the high oil temperatures of turbos all combine to cause ratings that change just as fast as problems are found with the previous rating....

Guess I am confused by the oil ratings. If an oil meets CI-4 but also the other ratings then which one dominates? One way of reading them nixes my favorite Shell Rotella T - which meets all of the required ratings and also all of the not allowed ratings!!. But I see that there are some oils with tighter specs. Basically I'm not sure whether an oil that meets CI-4 but also has the other ratings qualifies or not. And what is the new CI-4 PLUS spec?

Does anyone know a petroleum API specialist who could answer these questions? I'll cross post this to the lube discussion area.
Thanks, rScotty

 

[Chuck K.]

Good question Scotty, I put Shell Rotella in mine, I thought it meet or exceeded all diesel manufacture's specs I suppose this could lead to a similar debate SUDT vs UDT?

Actually this really irks me, will we have to use kubota's top secret proprietary C4/rX6-S21a, special formulated oil blended only for the M59? And OF course it will only be available from selected kubtota dealers

 

[Charlesaf3]

Here's what I assume, and I'd love to be corrected if I'm wrong. That the other codes are minimums, and that my oil happens to meet all the other standards on the way to meeting CI4. By this reading I'm guessing rotella would be fine.

Common sense wise, though the hydraulic fluid seems to need more precision, I have trouble seeing that the best diesel oil you can find is not good enough.

BUT - I don't claim to understand the oil codes!!!

 

[Charlesaf3]

reading the back - it says exceeds CF,CG,CH,CI, and a couple of others (plus?). Endorsed by Cummins for EGR. So I'd be surprised if it weren't fine.

 

[Chuck K.]

reading the back - it says exceeds CF,CG,CH,CI, and a couple of others (plus?). Endorsed by Cummins for EGR. So I'd be surprised if it weren't fine.

I agree Charles, there is probably a logical reason why there is need for so many codes but I for one do not have the time nor care to research it. At this point I have faith the Rotella will be adequate.

 

[rScotty]

It has been a painful process to track down the meanings of the codes....and particularly why Kubota disallows the CI-4 oil in the M59.

Basically, "higher" letter codes DO NOT necessarily supercede previous codes. That was what I thought as well, but it turned out to be a misconception.

The fact is that the different codes simply address different issues. More recent codes are more recent - that's all.

CI-4 oil is specifically formulated to be compatible with the new diesel catalytic converters in the exhaust system. If your diesel still smokes, you don't have that feature. But apparently the things done to the oil to meet CI-4 requirements are not favorable to the Kubota engine. Otherwise why would that oil be specifically disallowed in the owner's manual?

From what I now understand, the evidence against the CI-4 rated oil is still debateable. But there is some good news in that everyone seems to agree that even if the worst opinions are true, using a diesel lubricity additive in the fuel, plus more frequent oil changes of the CI-4 will correct any deficiencies. That is what I plan to do with mine - a diesel fuel additive and more frequent oil (not filter) changes.
We can deal with this..... rScotty

Here's what I assume, and I'd love to be corrected if I'm wrong. That the other codes are minimums, and that my oil happens to meet all the other standards on the way to meeting CI4. By this reading I'm guessing rotella would be fine.

Common sense wise, though the hydraulic fluid seems to need more precision, I have trouble seeing that the best diesel oil you can find is not good enough.

BUT - I don't claim to understand the oil codes!!!

 

[Charlesaf3]

I'd be lying if I said I fully understood this issue, but thanks - at least I understand it slightly better!

I note in the other thread you started about it, that the Kubota tech said it shouldn't be an issue with Ultra low sulfur diesel, but that the worry was with low sulfur.

 

[rScotty]

OOps, after all that research I called out the wrong oil. It is CJ-4 that is disallowed...and CI-4 is the one that is correct for the M59. I reversed them. So I've quoted myself below and changed it. I wish I could delete the original message, but my "edit previous messages" function is turned off.

Again, CI-4 is for M59. CJ-4 is specifically disallowed.

And as a note, the 15W-40 oil that John Deere sells for their own tractors is currently CI-4 typed. Interestingly, it is not CJ-4 The JD brand name is PLUS- 50 and it comes in 2.5 gallon jugs just right for the M59. The dealer says that Shell makes it.

It has been a painful process to track down the meanings of the codes....and particularly why Kubota disallows the CJ-4 oil in the M59.

Basically, "higher" letter codes DO NOT necessarily supercede previous codes. That was what I thought as well, but it turned out to be a misconception.

The fact is that the different codes simply address different issues. More recent codes are more recent - that's all.

CJ-4 oil is specifically formulated to be compatible with the new diesel catalytic converters in the exhaust system. If your diesel still smokes, you don't have that feature. But apparently the things done to the oil to meet CJ-4 requirements are not favorable to the Kubota engine. Otherwise why would that oil be specifically disallowed in the owner's manual?

From what I now understand, the evidence against the CJ-4 rated oil is still debateable. But there is some good news in that everyone seems to agree that even if the worst opinions are true, using a diesel lubricity additive in the fuel, plus more frequent oil changes of the CJ-4 will correct any deficiencies. That is what I plan to do with mine - use a diesel fuel additive and more frequent oil (not filter) changes if I cannot find CI-4 oil in a suitable brand name and viscosity.
We can deal with this..... rScotty

 

[Chato]

I am using Rotella every 50 hours. I figure if it's good enough for my Cummins it'll be good enough for the kubota.

I also use regular ol' Kubota UDT not the super UDT.

 

[rScotty]

I am using Rotella every 50 hours. I figure if it's good enough for my Cummins it'll be good enough for the kubota.

I also use regular ol' Kubota UDT not the super UDT.

Hmmm....my Kubota dealer would agree with you. My Kubota dealership is one of the oldest ones in the state, but until this year they didn't even carry the Kubota brand lubricants. This year they do sell some Kubota lubs to customers, but they still do all their warranty work using bulk lubricants of their own choosing. It turns out that doing that is a common way for all local dealerships to cut costs. The local Ford dealer does it too, and his use of aftermarket filters cost us a nice new 7.3 diesel engine at 40K miles- although that one I did get warranteed after some hassle.

The reason I spend so much time researching oils and maintenance is that I like to keep as close as I can to the engineering lubrication philosophy that the machine was designed for. Sometimes that's not easy. And I'm finding that it may or may not be an equal concern to the dealer.

Sometimes if you want it done right you have to either shout loudly or do it yourself.
rScotty

 

[Charlesaf3]

cynically, if your machine dies in 8 years, you might be annoyed, and some dealers not all that unhappy...

Newer machines may (and probably do) have tighter tolerances than the old ones. Maybe it doesn't matter, but lube/oil is cheap insurance. Though I'd bet even with mediocre stuff, changing it frequently would cover a multitude of sins.